BillyD

C'mon, what's the big deal, why the criticism when you could just move on to a thread you like better.

BillyD

Take it easy, my friend, and lose the name-calling.

cyclezen

not sure where the 'Cat 1 racers' thing comes up in Larry's posts... likely there are no Cat 1s which might appear on most 'Sunday' rides... LOL!
also likely not any Cat 2s... cut Larry a break. He's havin fun with this.
only thing I hope (and assume) he's not riding 'fixed gear' in a group ( thats not on a track...) - he wasn't real clear about that...
otherwise... most human 'learning' happens from 'failure'... so failing often hopefully lets us learn quicker... certainly has been true for me... LOL!
Original post Q - Big Guy/rider = Fast Cadence , Small rider = slow cadence ? there is no reasonable discussion/reply to that, so whatever...
Ride On
Yuri
I was bumbling around yesterday, just enjoying some 'junk miles' on the MUP, when a guy goes 'blasting' (all relative... LOL!) on his SS... prolly 42x18 LOL!
easily 20 mph.... LOL! usually I just let them go... but I was feelin loopy... so I just rode along - 3x bike lengths back. But he knew I was just hanging there...
... so in the best Liz Warren... he persisted... for about 1.5 miles... then ess-ploded... 'learning' can be very hard on us... LOL!

GhostRider62

He has more than once mentioned Cat 1 racers on the ride.

My ire is towards those on that ride. Watching the videos leaves little doubt why motorists hate us.....it is riders like that.

genejockey 

The ride he's mentioned that I know - the Spectrum Ride - is actually a SATURDAY ride, which attracts a lot of racers. Don't know how many Cat 1s, but it wouldn't surprise me. It regularly has between 50 and 150 riders, and because it's so big, fast, and competitive, it is hazardous to be around.

Since I've been doing a monthly ride on Saturday mornings I've seen not only the Spectrum Ride but also the behavior of cars at this one intersection. It's a T, with no stop for those crossing the top (where the ride goes) but I see cars pulling out from the stop to make the left turn in front of cyclists crossing the top of the T A LOT, and I can only imagine what would happen if a car pulled out in front of the Spectrum Ride as it is easily going 30+mph there.

shelbyfv

We are all entertained by Larry's threads but it would be a mistake to take them seriously. FWIW, he's a good sport and doesn't whine when he gets the predictable responses.

LarrySellerz

apparenty someone died when a car pulled in front of spectrum some years ago. My coworker knew a dude who was involved in that crash and he quit the sport after it. somewhere in woodside

Carbonfiberboy 

I know 2 fixed riders with TKRs. The way to avoid same is to always descend with the brake(s) on, pedaling against resistance. Never let the pedals drive your legs. There was a fixed rider on here some years ago (The Octopus) who'd climbed and descended Mt. Ventoux by all 4 routes in one day, fixed. He had lots of good advice.

I used to lead a fast group ride on a SS, not fixed - I'd never descend steep stuff fixed - and found that I couldn't pull at over 110, though I could sit in at 135. IIRC, I used a 42X17. Speeds were in the 21-25 range on the flat. Of course I was not the strongest rider, just the guy who did the scut work. Riding SS did not improve my geared bike riding. Having a wide effective cadence range is not as effective a training strategy as massed practice in a narrower one.

Trakhak

Yes to never letting the pedals drive your legs on a fixed-gear bike on steep descents. And, at high cadences, forget about pedaling circles. Just kick your feet forward and pull them back, the way boxers throw quick jabs.

TKRs: not good. I promised myself at age 50 that I'd stop riding fixed by age 55, to preserve my knees. But I could never bring myself to stop riding my track bikes. Now I'm 70, and I've been riding fixed for most of my mileage since I retired a year ago. No knee problems aside from occasional twinges that disappear in the course of the ride.

I guess I've developed good technique over the years, having started out on a track bike in 1964.

CliffordK

The audio is fine, just a little French sounding.

But, the guy seems to have a motorized fixie. So, I can't tell how much force he is putting into the spinning, or if it is all just the machine.

CliffordK

True, but it also depends on the distance, slope, headwinds, tailwinds, etc.

If it is a hill that is say 1/4 mile, and less than 10%, one can just stand up, and keep pounding away.

LarrySellerz

Strava segment had me at 32 mph for a downhill so you can extrapolate that I had to be spinning at a huge cadence when riding the 42x18. Couldn't hold it, ended up hurting myself.

Badger6

I reread your statement, it is certainly misleading. Also, you don’t need to extrapolate, just do the maths. A gear calculator will say your cranks were going 172-174RPM for that given gear combo and speed. If you were pedaling. If you were on a fixed gear bike, your feet were moving, the cranks were turning, but were you actually pedaling?

Your stories remind me of the kid in 8th grade who "had a girlfriend” that went to another school, but anyhow...

LarrySellerz

I was on a single speed with a freewheel, and yes I was pedaling thats how I hurt myself. I can't spin that fast for more than a few seconds it seems. had to stop and remove myself from the ride my leg hurt so much. I know the cadence because I did what you did and used a gear calculator. 180 RPM isn't even that high for track sprinters BTW, as shown in that video posted above

Badger6

I bet it did. Pain is a good teacher. Hopefully you were paying attention.

Trakhak

Please don't call real track bikes fixies! That said: the machine is purpose-built for cyclists to hone their high-speed cadence. The perceived effort at high cadence, whether riding downhill or on a machine like that, is low, but the watts being put out are higher than you'd think. I've seen upwards of 180 bpm on my track bike on extended steep downhill runs (at my top cadence of around 225 rpm) where the guys I was riding with were seeing 120 or 130 bpm in the top gear of their road bikes. (One of them said afterward, "I was staying clear of you because it looked as if your legs were going to rip out of your hip joints!")

That French cyclist, by the way, won gold medals in several track World Championships in matched sprints and 1-km time trials (the latter sometimes called the most painful bike racing event of all).

Edit: forgot that he was a world champion in Keirin racing, too. Video added below:

chaadster

There are a lot of wild numbers being thrown around, but let’s be clear about one thing: 180rpm would be very high in any track racing event.

It’s not only very hard to maintain that kind of leg speed for more than a few seconds, it’s almost certainly also well past the max power peak for even the best track racer of all-time pushing a modern 60x12 setup.

If we’re being honest and frank— and correct me if I’m wrong— saying sustained track cadences are in the 120rpm and peaks in the 140rpm range are more sensible and meaningful than statements like “180rpm isn’t even that high for track sprinters.”

Badger6

I couldn’t get the image of Larry/Gabe without a shirt flailing at the cranks out of my head…then it occurred to me what probably happened. Go ahead and cue up your denial…but, you were licking up speed (because gravity does that, ask me how I know), and you essentially spun out, but being Larry, you chased the drivetrain. You weren’t actually applying any power since the hub was spinning faster than you could get the free hub to go (because there’s no way you were actually (pedaling at 172 RPM), so without any sort of resistance, you were just an uncoordinated blob of meat and bone at that point. No wonder you hurt yourself. Don’t do that. Just coast and ride it out.

WhyFi

I don't recall Larry's weight, and I don't care enough to go sifting for it, but with a combined rider and bike weight of 250lbs, it only takes a little -5% slope to get over 32mph. Yeah, I don't think that his mad spinning added anything to the forward motion, either.

Trakhak

Yes. Just did a quick Google search for "leg speed of track cyclist sprinter," got this:

"Sprinting is all about leg speed. If you talk to a track sprinter about cadence, he will call anything below 120 rpm low leg speed training, and that the high rev range starts at 150 rpm. In retrospect, although I did a lot of high spin training when I raced, I could have done more."

Carbonfiberboy 

We used to have a Cat 1 local track racer as a spin class instructor. He could spin 200, while I could only get 150. For me, high cadence training is 115-120. I try to do a low watts workout in that range every week. It helps. That used to be a recovery workout, but not anymore. High cadence is way easier on a fixed gear or spin bike than a freewheel bike.

genejockey 

"I was riding in Canada. You wouldn't have seen me."

genejockey 

Can confirm.
If he was going down any of the local descents (Page Mill, OLH, 84, or Kings), the AVERAGE gradient is -6 to -8%, so obviously some pitches are even steeper.

genejockey 

(As luck would have it, Larry/Gabe and I both ride frequently on Cańada Road.)

shelbyfv

Larry, the freewheel will actually let you coast when you are going 32mph downhill! No need to turn the pedals! Modern bike tech.... With your weight, tuck in, get aero and you'll be flying past those losers on descents.