THAT'S IT!!! I'm converting everything to tubeless
#51
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(above) Makes sense. What I don't understand is, if sealant stays liquid in presence of oxygen inside tire or tube, how does it harden when going out leak hole? Unless it hardens in the presence of UV light, like composite dental fillings. I could think of stranger things, like Loctite (anaerobic thread locking adhesive) which hardens in the *absence* of oxygen.
#52
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I thought I was supposed to be able to run lower pressure with tubeless as well, but according to the Silca calculator, I'm still supposed to be at 95psi. I'd rather not get into my weight, but I'll just say me + bike + all miscellaneous gear (small took kit, pump, water, back up tube, etc) with which I ride is <190#.
#53
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OK, maybe I just don't understand it, which is completely possible. This is my Shiv (tri bike), running Reynolds AR80 wheels, which I believe are 21mm internal width, and a 25c tire.
Even so, I tend to run at least 90psi just to be safe. I don't necessarily run what the calculator recommends just because I do like a little softer ride, but I still maintain a minimum of 90psi to reduce the risk of pinch flats.
Part of the problem here is just the road conditions. Not so much the actual pavement, but the debris on the roads. There are very few dedicated bike lanes. What is marked as a bike lane is typically just a paved shoulder that often has whatever debris gets kicked up. I've had flats (mostly with tubes) due to auto tire steel belts and thorns from goat heads or mesquite trees most often. But I have had one or two impact flats from rocks. The rock they use before laying the pavement happens to be pretty much exactly like the rock that's IN the pavement, so it can be pretty difficult to distinguish at speed. And, of course, none of the rocks are flat or round. Oh no, they're perfectly tire flattening shaped, all big and jaggy sharp angles and s**t.
Even so, I tend to run at least 90psi just to be safe. I don't necessarily run what the calculator recommends just because I do like a little softer ride, but I still maintain a minimum of 90psi to reduce the risk of pinch flats.
Part of the problem here is just the road conditions. Not so much the actual pavement, but the debris on the roads. There are very few dedicated bike lanes. What is marked as a bike lane is typically just a paved shoulder that often has whatever debris gets kicked up. I've had flats (mostly with tubes) due to auto tire steel belts and thorns from goat heads or mesquite trees most often. But I have had one or two impact flats from rocks. The rock they use before laying the pavement happens to be pretty much exactly like the rock that's IN the pavement, so it can be pretty difficult to distinguish at speed. And, of course, none of the rocks are flat or round. Oh no, they're perfectly tire flattening shaped, all big and jaggy sharp angles and s**t.
#54
Senior Member
OK, maybe I just don't understand it, which is completely possible. This is my Shiv (tri bike), running Reynolds AR80 wheels, which I believe are 21mm internal width, and a 25c tire.
Even so, I tend to run at least 90psi just to be safe. I don't necessarily run what the calculator recommends just because I do like a little softer ride, but I still maintain a minimum of 90psi to reduce the risk of pinch flats.
Part of the problem here is just the road conditions. Not so much the actual pavement, but the debris on the roads. There are very few dedicated bike lanes. What is marked as a bike lane is typically just a paved shoulder that often has whatever debris gets kicked up. I've had flats (mostly with tubes) due to auto tire steel belts and thorns from goat heads or mesquite trees most often. But I have had one or two impact flats from rocks. The rock they use before laying the pavement happens to be pretty much exactly like the rock that's IN the pavement, so it can be pretty difficult to distinguish at speed. And, of course, none of the rocks are flat or round. Oh no, they're perfectly tire flattening shaped, all big and jaggy sharp angles and s**t.
Even so, I tend to run at least 90psi just to be safe. I don't necessarily run what the calculator recommends just because I do like a little softer ride, but I still maintain a minimum of 90psi to reduce the risk of pinch flats.
Part of the problem here is just the road conditions. Not so much the actual pavement, but the debris on the roads. There are very few dedicated bike lanes. What is marked as a bike lane is typically just a paved shoulder that often has whatever debris gets kicked up. I've had flats (mostly with tubes) due to auto tire steel belts and thorns from goat heads or mesquite trees most often. But I have had one or two impact flats from rocks. The rock they use before laying the pavement happens to be pretty much exactly like the rock that's IN the pavement, so it can be pretty difficult to distinguish at speed. And, of course, none of the rocks are flat or round. Oh no, they're perfectly tire flattening shaped, all big and jaggy sharp angles and s**t.
Whether tubeless will seal a poke at high pressure, may depend a lot on the diameter of the poke, and thickness of the tread (thicker I think better, longer sealant leak path), so lightweight race tires not as good in that respect. I haven't run lightweight in many decades, I go now for thick and flat-resistant. Any possibility of using heavier tires for training only (and on a second cheaper set of wheels, so easy swap), or would that throw off your training versus race expectations?
Last edited by Duragrouch; 04-15-24 at 06:43 PM.
#55
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On this past weekend's Tour de Scottsdale, I helped a rider who was running 700x40C tubeless and suffered a hole in the tire that wouldn't seal. We ended up installing a tube so he could finish the ride, for which he was grateful (to the point of sending me a nice e-mail today).
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On this past weekend's Tour de Scottsdale, I helped a rider who was running 700x40C tubeless and suffered a hole in the tire that wouldn't seal. We ended up installing a tube so he could finish the ride, for which he was grateful (to the point of sending me a nice e-mail today).
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(above) Makes sense. What I don't understand is, if sealant stays liquid in presence of oxygen inside tire or tube, how does it harden when going out leak hole? Unless it hardens in the presence of UV light, like composite dental fillings. I could think of stranger things, like Loctite (anaerobic thread locking adhesive) which hardens in the *absence* of oxygen.
In the end, I don't think the sealant is relying on a chemical reaction at all. Though, no doubt over long periods of time the sealant likely does oxidize, as do many things. And it probably does react to UV light. And I bet it could be burned too. But none of that has to do with it's intended use.
Of course, over some weeks and months, the sealant does in fact dry out inside the tire, simply because the tire is not 100% gas tight.
Anyway, this is my understanding, but I'm no expert on this, so take it all with a grain of salt.
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He said he'd tried a plug, but it didn't fully seal the tire. The tire was rated for 50 psi, but I'm not sure it had all that when he installed the plug.
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#59
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I do have a bike with heavier tube tires on it, but it's just not as nice a ride as the Shiv. I should ride it more, if for no other reason than being able to set it up for the durability. But I just really, really like riding the Shiv.
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The rock they use before laying the pavement happens to be pretty much exactly like the rock that's IN the pavement, so it can be pretty difficult to distinguish at speed. And, of course, none of the rocks are flat or round. Oh no, they're perfectly tire flattening shaped, all big and jaggy sharp angles and s**t.
In my experience, I had a piece of seal coat aggregate flatten a tire on my racing bike - the sharp edge went right through the tread, cord, protective layer, and underlying SpinSkin. Wasn't all that happy, but it was OK after the tube was swapped.
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If I was getting as many flats as Jen, tires/tubes/tubeless wouldn't be what I would be concerned about. It would be the bike route and roads choosing to ride as it seems no tires/tubes/tubeless can fix the roads she is riding on? Just guessing. I'd try to find different roads to ride instead.
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I thought I was supposed to be able to run lower pressure with tubeless as well, but according to the Silca calculator, I'm still supposed to be at 95psi. I'd rather not get into my weight, but I'll just say me + bike + all miscellaneous gear (small took kit, pump, water, back up tube, etc) with which I ride is <190#.
also to remember one of the original motivations was for large MTB tires running low pressure to avoid pinch flats in tubes
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#64
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Thanks. According to that, I can run them down to 79psi. I probably won't go that low but I might try it in the 85-90psi range just to see how that feels.
#65
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Indeed. And just as an aside, I know much of my problem revolves around the specific location. Living in a rural area, there is far less routine maintenance of the roadway, i.e. sweeping. I have noticed I rarely get flats, even with my skinny 23c tires and lightweight tubes, when I ride in Vegas. Those same tires would barely make it to the end of my street here.
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I thought I was supposed to be able to run lower pressure with tubeless as well, but according to the Silca calculator, I'm still supposed to be at 95psi. I'd rather not get into my weight, but I'll just say me + bike + all miscellaneous gear (small took kit, pump, water, back up tube, etc) with which I ride is <190#.
With road tyres the optimum pressure for rolling resistance is pretty much the same with or without tubes, as confirmed by the Silca calculator. To run lower pressure you need to be running wider tyres and rims, which you probably don't have adequate clearance for on your bike. Ideally you would want to be running 28 or 30 mm wide tyres at around 60 psi to get the most flat protection from tubeless sealant.
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I had to have the rear rim replaced. The tire was fine
#68
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Tubeless tires are much more resistant to pinch flats than tube type tires. Years ago, while riding with a fast group on a slight downhill at about 70 kph i hit a pothole with enough force to eject my water bottle and ding my rear rim. The tire did not go flat
I had to have the rear rim replaced. The tire was fine
I had to have the rear rim replaced. The tire was fine
#69
Newbie
Hmm... I wonder if I could take my tubies and seal them tubeless style, so if the tube did get a pinch flat, the air would just leak into the same void? Of course, like run-flat tires, you need an indication of a flat; Early with run-flats, it was with a wireless pressure sensor on the inside of the rim. Now, they just use the same sensors as for the ABS brakes; When a tire goes flat, even run-flats, it changes its rolling circumference quickly, which is detected by the car computer and you get a warning light. After fixing the tire or putting on a spare, there's a procedure to reset the system and clear the warning.
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I got those tires from a bike shop in Bakersfield California back around 1996 for the first set and 98 for the second where I use to lived which the team captain owned the bike shop who won, and they still hold the 4 person RAAM race record since 2004, used those same Armadillo tires to win the race on, and to train on, and they didn't have a single flat in the entire race or while training.
So you would be fine without tubeless tires in Nevada, or Arizona, or anywhere else.
#71
Senior Member
I had to look up Quarq TyreWiz. I'll be damned. But not surprising these days, due to both the micro tech available, and the prices people are willing to spend on bikes and parts. Most road motorcycles these days have ABS, I wonder if they sense for low tire pressure and by which method?
Last edited by Duragrouch; 04-19-24 at 10:24 PM.
#72
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Tubeless tires are much more resistant to pinch flats than tube type tires. Years ago, while riding with a fast group on a slight downhill at about 70 kph i hit a pothole with enough force to eject my water bottle and ding my rear rim. The tire did not go flat
I had to have the rear rim replaced. The tire was fine
I had to have the rear rim replaced. The tire was fine
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#73
Newbie
I've had pretty good luck with Muc-Off tube sealant for my tubed bikes, LOTS of glass in the bike gutters in Portland.. Tubeless has treated me well otherwise.
Last edited by MilhouseJ; 04-25-24 at 01:57 PM.
#74
Newbie
I think im going back to tubes with all my rims. so much money dumped in having to put new celent in every season and flat repairs are a lot faster. I know tubeless is better but im happy with going back to tubes for a bit
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#75
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Television Without Pity (often abbreviated TWoP) was a website that provided detailed recaps of select television dramas, situation comedies and reality TV shows along with discussion forums. These recaps were written with sarcastic criticism and opinion alongside a retelling of an episode's events, which the site referred to as "snark". Their official motto is "Spare the snark, spoil the networks," a takeoff on "spare the rod, spoil the child" and its mascot is Tubeelzebub (a portmanteau of tube and Beelzebub – "Tubey" for short), a devilish television set with horns and a pointed tail.