Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I did some more test fitting and measuring and I'm wrong. Its not such a long reach for brake calipers to 700c rims. Mafac Racers and a 1st Gen Dura-Ace caliper reached just fine for both the front and rear for 700c rims. I'll need another 16mm of reach if I want to use 650A. I think with some old sidepulls and maybe a little file work on the slots I should be ok. 650B isn't gonna happen unless I do hub brakes. Which I do happen to like.

With 700c x 32 (ish) tires the center of the BB axle is 11.5" off the ground. With 26"x2.0" (Iso 559) tires its 11" off the ground

As a point of referece My Panasonic which was handy measured 11.25" to the BB axle center

To be honest, I'm not sure if I like how it looks even with the wider 700's I tried on it. The wheelset I tried had black spokes though and it looked pretty cool.
In looking at the catalog page, the spokes are "Bonderized and Enamelled" and the frame is "Enamelled Black after rust-proofing by "Bonderizing"". I'm kind of thinking that means the original spokes would have been black, and I suspect the fender stays as well for some reason.

ColonelJLloyd 

So, you're leaning towards 27" wheels with black spokes? 700c with black spokes? 28mm tires? 32mm?

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

I've all but ruled out 27" because I'd have to run tires that don't measure more than 28mm wide when they are actually mounted on the rim....and then fender clearance at the chainstay bridge would be tight.

right now I'm leaning towards 700c or 650A with black spokes, although I'm still not sure about brake reach to 650A.
With 700c I can go as big as 35mm tires, or with 650A I could go a little bigger.

I should state up front that Wider tires are my preference

I don't feel like High pressure narrow tires are what should go on a 30's sports tourer

rhm

What hubs?

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

oh you guys are gonna press me now!

period correct Sturmey 3 speed (AW, or possibly a K hub...i've seen a few recently)...hoping to find a period correct sturmey standard front hub (no dynamo or brake).

I am still considering Sturmey Hub brakes at the front and rear though. I love hub brakes and it would eliminate my Brake reach concerns. If i needed to compromise I've got a '51 AW w/ Drum brake on hand.

ColonelJLloyd 

The BB does look noticeably high with the 700c wheels. 650A wheels will be closest to the original ISO 597 wheels. The Col de la Vie tires are 38mm. While you could get a set of calipers to reach the 650A rims, I would think hub brakes would offer much better braking.

Fenders?

rhm

Ayuh.

But I was actually wondering about the number of spokes, since "period correct" means 32/40, and 32/40 rims in 700c are a difficult option. You can get an odd pairing, such as a CR18 front and a Rhynolite rear, which would look, uh, terrible.

The front hub you want is not a Sturmey Archer. As far as I know, they didn't make a plain old front hub until after they became a Raleigh division; dynohubs, brake hubs, yes, but not the standard ones. Brampton, Phillips, BHC, &c made hubs like the one you want. Ask Ivandarken what his front hub is, he'll know!

Drum brakes are an interesting idea. Does your frame have cable braze ons that would become redundant? Though I should add that those old hub brakes weren't always that good. My father was a bit of a gear head in those days, and he really wanted a bike with drum brakes, and when he finally got it was very disappointed in them. There's a reason rim brakes have always been more popular!

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Actually there are no brazed on cable stops or guides. The only brazed on bits are the pump pegs, lamp mount, fender tabs and Cyclo Derailleur mounts.

Looks like Harris Carries the Sun CR-18 in 650A drilled for 32,36 or 40 holes.

fenders are a big yes. The catalog says they'd either be White plastic Blumels or aluminium

Some Dawes from the period for reference

https://www.flickr.com/groups/dawes_g...th/3991523586/

in reading through the 1935 an '39 catalogs i find it interesting that they aren't terribly specific about some of the parts. Brakes for instance are listed as "best Cantilever" (unless that's a brand name) and the front hub is specified as a "lightweight race hub".

rhm

Well, then hub brakes are a go!

The only period-correct cantilever brakes I'm familiar with are Resilion, which seem to be pretty scarce. I've been searching for on ebay for a while and so far not encountered a single complete set.

I thought your 1939 catalog page said yours came with "neat caliper brakes." What, that's not specific enough for you?

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

no you are correct Rudi, the '39 catalog does indeed say "neat caliper brakes" which I find equally funny. I think I got the "best Cantilever" thing from the 1935 catalog.

All I know is it means I've got a lot of leeway on parts and can still say "Oh yeah that's quite possibly Original"

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Here's a pic from this morning with some of its new parts (courtest of rhm) test fitted.



I've got the correct derailleur as well. I just need to sort out what to do about a wheelset. I've got some drum brake hubs ordered but I could just as easily switch to rim brake now that I'm reasonably sure that there wouldn't be any reach issues with ea3 rims.
So really I've got a lot of options open ranging from going as close to original as possible with a simple 3 speed freewheel on the back (with or without a drum brake), to putting a couple of cogs on some kind of Sturmey hub (with or without a drum brake).

aside from all that I just need to figure out what sort of seatpost I should be using. Any suggestions?

ColonelJLloyd 

Lauterwassers? I've got a very similar stem/bar combo waiting for my gas pipe Atala. The Dawes is looking good. I can be of no help, though, as I don't have any experience with bikes that old. I'm sure I'll subject myself to that headache soon enough, however.

rhm

The seat post you want is just a straight alloy post, you can get a Sunlite or Kalloy one for $10 or less, and you use it with a clamp. Depending on the fit, the clamp goes either before or behind the post. They post has a machined surface, which I prefer to sand smooth and polish for the correct vintage look. Do you know what size you need?

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

No clue on seatpost size. I'll probably try a few straight posts I've got sitting around and failing that just go down to the LBS and get them to test fit a few. I doubt its some really odd size (at least I hope not).

Justin, this is one of the first bikes I consider really old that I've worked on and its really not terribly different than anything from the 70's. Yeah the bottom bracket is a little strange with its threading but its really hardly any different than any other typical cottered BB in the world. The Cyclo Derailleur is supposed to be a real P in the A to set up, but I have my doubts it can be much harder than Shimano Indexing

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Things have progressed well. On top of that the fender stays are now trimmed up and the rear fender is properly fitted. I went with 650A rims/tires and Panaracer Col de la Vie tires. I think they look good. I've also got a seatpost that fits now.


I overhauled the rear hub last night and put on the 5 speed block I'm intending to use, its a 17-18-19-20-26...odd yes, but I've got a master plan. Anyhow, the frame is spaced at 118mm and I've got the appropriate spacers on the axle...it fits perfectly without the freewheel on.

With the freewheel on, the drive-side locknut protudes past the freewheel what would be an appropriate amount for any other bike... but when I go to put the rear wheel in with the freewheel on, the drive-side chainstay hits the small cog and I can't get the wheel in the dropouts.

I've got some options that I can see, and no doubt there's just as many that I haven't thought of so I figured I'd throw it out here and see.

Here's what I see my options as:

a. Respace the frame to 126mm and add some spacers on the Drive Side of the axle. The axle is meant for 126mm anyway so its the appropriate length.

b. Go with smaller cogs. Instead of a 17-18-19-20-26, start with a 12 or 13 and go up from there and use a smaller chainring to compensate. - This might work...might not. 12t might still be too big to clear the Chainstay

c. Go with less gears. 4 or 3 speed freewheel would be a bit narrower....i think.


Any suggestions would be a big help, I'm really not sure which way to go here.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Well I took it to the LBS and asked them. They suggested I space it to 126mm and if that isn't enough, move on to option B and use smaller cogs.

They really liked the bike and even had a couple of beers to give me to try out (we always trade beers)

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Got it back from the LBS, respaced to 126mm. The freewheel fits on, I've got the Cyclo RD/shifter/cables mounted and functional. Still waiting on some sturmey archer parts from the UK, and I'm gonna try and get a set of wingnuts for the rear wheel, but It's getting very close to finished.

Looking at the front derailleur, it doesn't seem to sit at the best angle as it is. Is there a way to adjust that or am I gonna need to bend the control arm to get it right?

ColonelJLloyd 

Cool, dude! Did you make some leather cable clips? Lemme see those. Everything is old on that bike. Maybe an old saddle would be nice if you could find a good one.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Thanks. Yeah I made some more leather cable clips....i like em, but I'm not gonna use any more on this bike..I don't wanna overdo it. The ones on my Commuter have held up wonderfully so I've got no hesitation in using leather again.

nearly everything is old...there's a few exceptions. Believe it or not those fenders are brand new SKS "Longboard"s

Its 5/8" Latigo Leather strips and Line 24 snaps. I cut corks in half and used a round file to shape the backs and put grooves in the front to hold the cable housing. I'll probably shellac the cork bits.

mkeller234

I thought they might be the white planet bike fenders, either way they really fit that bike well. The front fender is nice and long. The fender mounting eyelets are in such strange locations, it'd be interesting to know why. Does the shift lever rotate all the way around to the top or does it always sit below? You must have a ton of patience, i'd be feeling to antsy to get to ride it and rush things.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Yeah I feel like I see these kinds of fender mounting points on older bikes like 30's-early 50's...of course its not inclusive...I like em there just fine, not sure why they are where they are but its nice that the bolts wont interfere with the gears/chain in the rear.

The shift lever rotates all the way up to about the 10 o'clock position at which point you're in low gear.

I'm quite antsy to ride it now that the wheels and derailleurs are on...thankfully the British Post and Customs are making sure that I don't ride it a moment before all the parts arrive

rhm

Looking good!

I can't quite see it in that photo, but it looks to me like the front derailleur cage has a round hole that goes over a round stud at the top, held to it by a set screw at the front. Do I have that right? If so, then you should be able to loosen that set screw then move the cage side to side, or change the angle.

But yeah, the derailleur is up too high and the angle looks bad. The lower edge of the cage should be concentric with the crank, and clear it by only a few mm.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

You're 100% correct about the set screw, but the post its set screwing down onto is D shaped and will only allow for side-to-side adjustment on the post. When the screw is set tight there is only one angle the cage can be at.



I have a feeling that mine is bent back. If you look at my pic you can see how the arm doesn't line up with the down tube, rather it kinda slants back...The other examples of this derailleur that I've seen are straight.

I ordered a set of wingnuts for the rear wheel last night...like 10 bux shipped from some dude on ebay, and I got to work just a little while ago and the Sturmey Archer parts arrived from England! countdown to ecstasy.

ColonelJLloyd 

I'll bet someone leaves work early today.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Gosh darn right! ...any excuse I can get

I gotta really look in earnest for brake cable housing. I kinda want brown, but I'm not totally sure.