daviddavieboy

A little anecdote. My wife has a few very expensive sewing machines that she uses in her business. Many years ago I would be 'helpful' and help with oiling said machines including one day picking up some 3-1 oil to do said job. All was fine until life happened and the machines sat for a little over a year with no use and when they were needed again, lo and behold all of them were seized solid.

After a costly visit to our service person I learned to only use "sewing machine oil" as it is formulated to adhere to steel parts as opposed to regular oils that over time will literally run off steel parts and provde no protection.

On my bicycles I have waxed my chains for decades, get near 1000 km between waxing and where I have multiple bikes (and ride all of them) can go a year on some of them between service. My commuter bike (rain bike) on the other hand can get to be a mess where I use wet lube due to constant riding in the rain. Yes I am careful with not using much lube but it still leaves gunk and a unwanted tattoo sometimes. LOL

cyccommute 

You know there are these new fangled things called “cameras” out there. Lots of phones seem to have them. You could take a picture so that we can all be amazed.

I’ll show you mine first. The chain hasn’t been cleaned nor wiped before the picture was taken. I never wipe my chain because I don’t need to. Nor do I clean my chain except for before install. This chain has 630 miles on it since it was cleaned and installed, including one refresh of the wax ( I use solvent wax) at 430 miles.





You can see that there is minimal transfer of any kind of dirt to my fingers. The reason I don’t believe your claims is that I’ve never seen an oiled chain that wasn’t filthy. I’ve handled thousands of them.

smd4

I thought you said wax doesn't pick up dirt? That chain looks a bit dirty, to me. My Tri-Flo-lubricated chain is cleaner.

Yeah, I can take a picture. But when I post it you’ll just accuse me of using a new chain or cleaning it before I take the picture or any number of other reasons that you can think of, because what you see in the picture won’t fit your worldview. So thanks for the suggestion, but it would be a waste of time on my part.

P.S. There are photos of my bike on this site showing the rear derailleur, and while the chain isn’t the subject, some of it is still visible...

cyccommute 

Wax doesn’t pick up dirt. Wax is a solid and can look a bit shaggy as it sloughs off with use. That’s not “dirt”

You are really going to have to tell us how you think that “folks here use WAY too much oil on their chain” and say that Tri-flow (proper name, by the way) is a cleaner. Those two things don’t work together. You can put on a very small amount of Tri-flow® or use it as a cleaner. You can’t do both.

Excuses. Excuses. Seems you don’t want to back up your claims.

Do you have any idea how many posts are on the Bike Forums? I would never say to someone “go search around for pictures.” That just reeks of the south bound effluent of a north bound chicken.

canklecat

I used paraffin for a couple of years, around 2017-2019, on my road bikes. Worked great. But I misplaced my Li'l Dipper crockpot in early 2020 and never got around to using paraffin again.

Main problem is completely stripping all lube, oil, grease, rust resistant coatings, etc. Without an effective solvent (potentially hazardous) or an ultrasonic cleaner, it's impossible to completely strip out the chain to ensure only the wax (and PTFE or moly, if added) get into the friction bearing surfaces. I'm renting, have no access to a garage or workshop, and it was a PITA to temporarily set up a solvent system in the back yard. Especially after the complex installed a security emergency exit door with alarm on the nearest door to the yard.

So I gave up on paraffin and switched to Rock 'n' Roll lubes. They work about as well, last about as long per application, but don't run quite as cleanly as paraffin. RnR Absolute Dry does run clean -- it's just naphtha and PTFE -- but has the shortest runtime per application, especially in wet weather or just riding through a few wet spots on the road.

Rock 'n' Roll Gold and Extreme appear to add a bit of conventional light oil to the naphtha and PTFE, and last longer per application, including through wet conditions. But also run dirtier, although not nearly as dirty as any other conventional chain oil I've tried, including some liquid waxes. As RnR describes, their recommended application process also cleans the chain pretty well.

But every time I find a chain tattoo on my leg, jeans or socks, yeah, I think about returning to waxing. But I'd need an ultrasonic cleaner to do it properly and safely.

OTOH, I might just concoct my own version of Rock 'n' Roll lubes, from a bulk container of naphtha and my own supply of powdered PTFE, which I bought in 2020 and never used. I might also add some powdered molybdinum disulfide. Back in the 1990s-early 2000s, serious airgunners and rimfire target shooters used moly to treat rifled bores that had been thoroughly stripped of any trace of lubricant or solvent. The moly particles would embed in the tiny pores in the steel and resisted being dislodged by most common cleaning methods. The moly treatment prevented leading with soft lead pellets and .22 rimfire target ammo, ensuring better consistency. Should work on a thoroughly stripped chain as well, even after wiping all traces off the exterior links. But, again, access to the right solvent is critical. It worked best with solvents that are no longer readily available due to environmental hazard concerns. We used to buy the spray cans of solvents for electronics and cleaning firearms, but those haven't been readily available in almost 20 years. Probably just as well, we don't need to wreck the environment any worse for the sake of convenience in a hobby.

smd4

Oh. Still looks dirty to me. And the mark on your hand sort of proves my point.

See, the problem I face is trying to explain something to someone with the reading comprehension of a gnat (but who is proud to show off that he knows how to spell Tri-Flow). I never said TRI-FLOW (how it appears on the bottle) is a "cleaner." I said my chain was cleaner than yours, using TRI-FLOW.

I don't really need to. I'm not really trying to prove anything. My chain is what it is.



Behold the impossible. A non-disgusting oiled chain. Something you claim to never have seen. Until now, apparently. You’re welcome. I‘m looking forward to your excuses, to coin a recently used phrase. Taken to show off the RD. Taken before I was challenged about the condition of my chain. Photo was NOT to prove that my TRI-FLOW lubed chain is clean. IT JUST IS. Why? BECAUSE THE OIL IS ON THE INSIDE, NOT THE OUTSIDE. Now let's hear the excuses/reasons/justifications as to how this is impossible. I’m looking forward to them (not really).

Jeff Neese

Regular waxing requires a Quick-Link, so that's a hard no from me. The only time I remove a chain is for replacement, or as required for some other maintenance.

MooneyBloke

Why? I'm reasonably certain pro riders are on chains connected with the current generation master links, and despite their routinely putting far more power into their bikes than the denizens of C&V are capable, I don't hear or read of them breaking chains left and right. I will certainly recognize that back when I started, master links were likely less reliable than closing with a chain tool, but the only chain failure I faced with a modern master link was a case where it had been opened a few too many times. There's an easy solution: replace your master links often; they're cheap. The only other chain failure was a broken Campy Perma-Link when I was on a standing climb. I do run Campy chains, but they are now closed with modern master links. The key point is that on-the-bike chain cleaning is always a compromise. I suspect that my old Sedisport chains and freewheels from my youth would have lasted a fair bit longer if I could have easily removed the chain for cleaning even without the benefit of wax.

Polaris OBark

Oh, come on, it isn't that hard to find:

MooneyBloke

Aren't the contact areas between the cassette and the chain and between the chainring and the chain unlubricated wear areas under your regime? If there is oil there, then there is place where dust kicked up from the road can accumulate and crud up your pristine drive train causing premature wear. Another question, how many miles has that bike seen since your last cleaning?

Jeff Neese

Maybe you're right. But after 55 years and 250k+ miles, I've never removed a chain just to clean it and I'm unlikely to start now. My drivetrains run perfectly and chains last a long time. When I read about the process some people go through waxing their chain, it doesn't seem worth it. I can clean my bike and lube my chain in about 5 minutes, and I just do that every few hundred miles. While you say that on-the-bike cleaning is a compromise, I would contend that removing the chain for cleaning is overkill.

Plus all my chains are 8 speed (on 6, 7, and 8 speed bikes) and the quick-links I've tried for that size chain just weren't very easy to use. And it would just be one more tool I need to carry on the road. (My multi-tool has a regular chain tool built in.) Someone recommended a Wippermann ConneX, which doesn't require a tool and is supposed to be very easy and reliable, so maybe some day I'll try one. Maybe.

macstuff 

Forget paraffin, that's old tech. I read ear wax is the new ultimate chain lube.
I'm on safari right now to bag an old elephant. I've got several bikes.
I'm gonna need a lot.

smd4

What are you suggesting? That I should cake my drivetrain in 40-weight, so that small pebbles will stick to it? Cleaning?

cyccommute 

My hand isn’t “dirty”. It has some marks on it but that is far cleaner than my hands look after the first 5 minutes of chain handling at my co-op. Very few of the chains I deal with are ever waxed nor at all clean.

Okay. I misunderstood what you were trying say.

You are trying to prove something. You are telling the rest of us how we are doing it wrong and if we only knew your secret recipe we would never have dirty hands nor chain tattoos. Of course it is your secret so we can all go pound sand.


Okay, that’s a clean drivetrain but I gave you details on the mileage since mine was cleaned. I took my picture to show you how clean my highly used chain is. You still haven’t told us how you do the magic of keeping a free flowing liquid on the inside of a non-sealed chain.

cyccommute 

Is that smd4’s picture?

smd4

No. I wouldn’t run anything less than Dura Ace.

Polaris OBark

I use Tri-flow on my Crampy drive train. It does not look anything near as clean as what you posted (and I thought it was reasonably clean).

Chuckk

I had a Velocette motorcycle back in the 70's with the owner manual and it recommended doing all sorts of cleaning and lubing with paraffin.
(also mentioned trunniion shaft and gudgeon pins as well)
Those were ANCIENT DAYS when it was harder to find out things, and I was familiar with paraffin because Mom would make Christmas candles out of it....
Dad mentioned that the English had a different meaning for paraffin - KEROSENE.
(which is a OK solvent with a high oil content)
and used to be easy to find at gas stations.
https://www.nationwidefuels.co.uk/oi...sene-paraffin/
Could it be that this is all a big misunderstanding?

IcySwan1 

I live in a temperate rain forest with a fair amount of glacial silt on the roads. It is wet and messy. I end up cleaning the drive train about every 3 rides. Wax sound great but I am concerned about its performance in the wet and silt. And I do ride in the rain or I wouldn't ride much.

Mike

gugie 

Who knew you could start a bar fight over oil vs wax?

canklecat

That's another reason I'm not waxing the chain on my Diamondback Podium with Dura Ace stuff. I don't want to break the Shimano chain for hot wax dipping. That was easy with my other bikes with KMC chains and quick links. But for the Diamondback it was easier to use Rock 'n' Roll PTFE based lubes. If I need to clean the chain I'll just use a toothbrush during a full bike cleanup. But the RnR lubes wipe off pretty well after letting the lube penetrate to the bearing surfaces. It's been no more trouble than the hot wax dip.

cyccommute 

How long have you been on Bike Forums? Don’t get out of the Classic and Vintage much? A fight can start of over wax vs wax

panzerwagon 

Wellll, gulf wax is sold in the shape of a bar so… <ducks>

gugie 

gugie 

A friend of mine invited me over to wax one of my chains. Based on the pros and cons of oil vs wax both here and on an email thread I started, in my mind it's a coin toss as to which would work better for me. I decided to take him up on it, took a dirty chain off of one of my bikes (I'm terrible when it comes to maintenance on my own bicycles) and see how it went. Between cleaning and waxing the chain it took maybe 2 hrs - but as my friend Ben said, it's not 2 hrs of work, most of the time is sitting and waiting, and subsequent rewaxing was maybe 20 minutes of his time.

If I'm not willing to try something new, I figure it's hard to argue that it's wrong. Well, hookers and blow come to mind...but I'm pretty sure this isn't on that level.