Scrodzilla

So you're saying you'd spend over $800 on a frame made by a top name company and not expect if to have nice looking welds? What if you had your car painted and it came back with orange peel and fish-eye all over the finish but the painter said "it may not look very nice but I used top-quality paint that will inhibit rust forever and never chip or fade."?

I'm talking about overall quality, which some Cinelli frames lack.

mconlonx

I think he's saying that, comparing the Cinelli to the All-City, both welds look sound, structurally, with no "...cracks, porosity and unfilled craters,... [no issues with] Dimensional variances, warpage and appearance flaws, as well as weld size characteristics..." Another aspect is undercutting the tubes or not getting enough penetration with the bead, neither of which is evident in those weld pix. (And PS: no slag or slag inclusions with GTAW/TIG)

As far as structural issues go, I'd actually give the nod to the Cinelli. Again, the All City welds look a bit hot, which could be more brittle and prone to cracks, but I also assume that both frames were heat-treated after welding, which should eliminate any brittleness issues.

The differences between the two are purely cosmetic/aesthetic. Looks like the All-City was welded slightly hotter than the Cinelli for that more smoothed look, maybe a pulse pass after the initial weld or some kind of abrasive finishing. Because of the prominence of the bead characteristics on the Cinelli, it's easier to nit-pick weld pools that are not evenly spaced or off by a bit, which is hidden on the All-City due to the smoothed appearance. Pick the appearance you like best, don't fret any kind of structural issues.

Scrodzilla

This whole discussion about welds is funny to me because all the internet warriors used to slag Leader's aluminum frames for having "sloppy-looking" welds but I've never seen a Leader frame that looked nearly as bad as that Mash Bolt I posted.

mconlonx

Honestly, outside of smoothed C'dale alu welds and finishing, aesthetic weld quality would be the last issue I'd consider regarding an aluminum bike.

Scrodzilla

But - as I've said a few times now - when spending top dollar on an over-hyped frame, I'd expect the thing to both be made well and look perfect.

mconlonx

Absolutely. I'd not get that Cinelli, for sure -- there are visible aesthetic flaws which shouldn't be on a bike of that caliber (price) -- unless every single other thing about that bike was exactly what I was looking for to the point that I could overlook what I consider very minor detail flaws.

I never thought the Leader welds looked anything but solid and competent. Compare Leader to All City welds and some would still call the Leader stuff "toothpaste welds, globbed-on." I kind of like the chunkier look, though, so it would really boil down to geo and paint at that point...

brauluver

I think the Visp frames have that honor safely owned.

SoreFeet

Metallurgy 101...folks you can't tell the integrity of a frame by appearance of welds. If you don't intend to race the frame on a velodrome just get a steel frame. It will be more forgiving in ride and more geometries will be out there.

Pretty much all of the aluminum frames are the same...I wouldn't consider one to be better than the other. If you want a lighter faster bike your going to have to spend some serious dough on a Scandium or other upper end Columbus aluminum tubeset.

Durability will not be any different. All frames will be the same. That being said steel is more durable. Once aluminum gets mangled it's off to the scrapper for a few bucks. Look at the yellow jersey web-site for photos of mangled steel frames bent back to alignment. It's pretty amazing. For durability get steel.

Aluminum is a great bang for the buck for weight and performance. Not so good for urban fixie abuse.

Scrodzilla

Someone should say this one more time...

mconlonx

...and they are probably still structurally as good as any other aluminum frame out there...

bones_mcbones

just go ahead and ban him.

Scrodzilla

I'm not a moderator.

bones_mcbones

You used to be, right?

Scrodzilla

Yup.

Nagrom_ 

You guys ever see the welds on a CAAD10?

aint too pretty. must be trash.

seau grateau

Dunno about that. Not that I'm complaining--I bought this frame over Leader's other offerings because I didn't care about what the welds looked like. Granted, one of these frames does cost about 4 times more than the other, but just saiyan.

Scrodzilla

Precisely my point.

seau grateau

I'm just gonna write Cinelli on my downtube and call it a day.

hockeyteeth

Oh my god. This thread is so ****ing pedantic. Shut up and ride your bikes, everyone.

seau grateau

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bones_mcbones

^This is what you need to look for on bad welds. Lifts, separating, sharp points, voids.

bones_mcbones

Kayce

Are we just showing pictures of welds for no reason now?

bones_mcbones

cracks starting from ugly ass welds.

EpicSchwinn

I prefer my aluminum hot glued together.