Infamous Curl demo'ed @ Eurobike 2014
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
small wheeler
Your rants and crazy defense of a company that you have no real vested interested in, is astounding. I liken it to internet fan boys arguing over the superiority of iPhones vs Android phones, Playstation vs Xbox. Look at the market in general and see how similar competition is. Now take an objective look at the Curl and a Brompton and you will see there is a signifigant difference and if you don't, you're letting your fanboy attitude cloud your better judgement. You brompton boys are some of the worst i've seen. Jeez.
Your rants and crazy defense of a company that you have no real vested interested in, is astounding. I liken it to internet fan boys arguing over the superiority of iPhones vs Android phones, Playstation vs Xbox. Look at the market in general and see how similar competition is. Now take an objective look at the Curl and a Brompton and you will see there is a signifigant difference and if you don't, you're letting your fanboy attitude cloud your better judgement. You brompton boys are some of the worst i've seen. Jeez.
#52
Senior Member
#53
55+ Club,...
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,404
Bikes: 9+,...
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1153 Post(s)
Liked 894 Times
in
628 Posts
IMO the Clinch would be my perfect small wheeled bike IF it could do fenders and had disk brakes (I do know disks on a 20" wheel are quite rare). I have a Xootr Swift rack & bag that solves the rack issue for me. I totally luv the BMX styling,...
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Naptown
Posts: 1,133
Bikes: NWT 24sp DD; Brompton M6R
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
I'll be interested to see how well the Curl rides.
If it is ever produced.
I think people here are significantly underestimating the popularity of the Brompton. IMO, Brompton's biggest problem are their production bottlenecks and distribution issues, particularly in the US. I.e., my gf ordered a BTO Brompton on June 15; we're still waiting for delivery. As backlogs have been running around 10-13 weeks for the last several years in the US, this suggests that there is a significant demand for the product which is hampered by production/distribution/delivery issues.
I understand that B is planning on building a US-based distribution center for dealers in the US, where bikes can be assembled in a BTO fashion from frames and parts kept on hand. You can sort of do this in a limited fashion if you order from NYCEwheels or Calhoun Cycles, based on what they have on hand.
I think dealing with these kinds of bottlenecks is much more important to Brompton's continued success than adding more interchangeable parts.
If it is ever produced.
I think people here are significantly underestimating the popularity of the Brompton. IMO, Brompton's biggest problem are their production bottlenecks and distribution issues, particularly in the US. I.e., my gf ordered a BTO Brompton on June 15; we're still waiting for delivery. As backlogs have been running around 10-13 weeks for the last several years in the US, this suggests that there is a significant demand for the product which is hampered by production/distribution/delivery issues.
I understand that B is planning on building a US-based distribution center for dealers in the US, where bikes can be assembled in a BTO fashion from frames and parts kept on hand. You can sort of do this in a limited fashion if you order from NYCEwheels or Calhoun Cycles, based on what they have on hand.
I think dealing with these kinds of bottlenecks is much more important to Brompton's continued success than adding more interchangeable parts.
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,143
Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'll be interested to see how well the Curl rides.
If it is ever produced.
I think people here are significantly underestimating the popularity of the Brompton. IMO, Brompton's biggest problem are their production bottlenecks and distribution issues, particularly in the US. I.e., my gf ordered a BTO Brompton on June 15; we're still waiting for delivery. As backlogs have been running around 10-13 weeks for the last several years in the US, this suggests that there is a significant demand for the product which is hampered by production/distribution/delivery issues.
I understand that B is planning on building a US-based distribution center for dealers in the US, where bikes can be assembled in a BTO fashion from frames and parts kept on hand. You can sort of do this in a limited fashion if you order from NYCEwheels or Calhoun Cycles, based on what they have on hand.
I think dealing with these kinds of bottlenecks is much more important to Brompton's continued success than adding more interchangeable parts.
If it is ever produced.
I think people here are significantly underestimating the popularity of the Brompton. IMO, Brompton's biggest problem are their production bottlenecks and distribution issues, particularly in the US. I.e., my gf ordered a BTO Brompton on June 15; we're still waiting for delivery. As backlogs have been running around 10-13 weeks for the last several years in the US, this suggests that there is a significant demand for the product which is hampered by production/distribution/delivery issues.
I understand that B is planning on building a US-based distribution center for dealers in the US, where bikes can be assembled in a BTO fashion from frames and parts kept on hand. You can sort of do this in a limited fashion if you order from NYCEwheels or Calhoun Cycles, based on what they have on hand.
I think dealing with these kinds of bottlenecks is much more important to Brompton's continued success than adding more interchangeable parts.
Sure it would be scary to be put in an arms race with a juggernaut like Dahon, but Brompton is still wayyy ahead in terms of marketing and reputation of their single design. It would be theirs to lose.
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,984
Bikes: Brompton, Dahon Vitesse D5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Expect to see a lightweight sealed-bearing headset on the the standard Brompton soon, plus a quick release on the caliper brakes. Possibly the light weight front hub as standard.
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 1,143
Bikes: Fully customized 11-spd MTB built on 2014 Santa Cruz 5010 frame; Brompton S2E-X 2014; Brompton M3E 2014
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 922
Bikes: Wheeler Mtn bike, Strida 5.0, Tern Link Uno, FSIR Spin 2.0, Dahon Mu P8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
for those of you waiting for the dahon clinch the price will cause yer butt to clinch. it's full carbon bits high end components, Looks like they are not interested in selling this one to the masses. around $4800 USD, it may cost more in japan but don't expect it to drop much.
Clinch | DAHON OFFICIAL SITE - ??? **********
Clinch | DAHON OFFICIAL SITE - ??? **********
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
hopefully they will sell the frame only ?
for those of you waiting for the dahon clinch the price will cause yer butt to clinch. it's full carbon bits high end components, Looks like they are not interested in selling this one to the masses. around $4800 USD, it may cost more in japan but don't expect it to drop much.
Clinch | DAHON OFFICIAL SITE - ??? **********
Clinch | DAHON OFFICIAL SITE - ??? **********
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 922
Bikes: Wheeler Mtn bike, Strida 5.0, Tern Link Uno, FSIR Spin 2.0, Dahon Mu P8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Seriously doubt it cause I've never seen Dahon sell frames only if they did it would be for warranty purposes only.
#62
Palmer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,699
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Liked 1,900 Times
in
1,099 Posts
Here's the Curl that was exhibited at the 2014 Taipei Cycle show in March:
and here is the Curl that was at Interbike in Las Vegas two weeks ago:
Both have ~std. chainwheels, but the frame has been simplified (possibly for cost control?). I'm guessing the latest iteration is taller & narrower when folded. The new frame provides a natural handhold to pick up the folded bike.
and here is the Curl that was at Interbike in Las Vegas two weeks ago:
Both have ~std. chainwheels, but the frame has been simplified (possibly for cost control?). I'm guessing the latest iteration is taller & narrower when folded. The new frame provides a natural handhold to pick up the folded bike.
Last edited by tcs; 09-19-14 at 12:14 PM.
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The biggest change I see is the fact that the drivetrain is tucked inside when folded on the new Curl - the older Curl still exposed the drivetrain when folded. The new model is now much more similar to the Brompton fold.
#64
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Olney Illinois USA
Posts: 1,021
Bikes: to many
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
USA pricing for the Curl is 1199.00
the Clinch is 4999.00 ( I told them to put regular stuff on it versus the red sram super expensive bits, but that will probably be in the next modelyear )
best Thor
the Clinch is 4999.00 ( I told them to put regular stuff on it versus the red sram super expensive bits, but that will probably be in the next modelyear )
best Thor
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arizona
Posts: 806
Bikes: Brompton and Dahon Curve D3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
They should have called it a Dahompton. The folks from that corner of the globe are major copy-cats. All in all though, it sure looks nice.
#66
Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Inland Empire of Hell
Posts: 43
Bikes: 2010 Mezzo I-4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I guess, if available, I'd prefer to pick up a Curve SL, but this sits between that and Mu SL and that was gone, before I knew it was. The savings, waiting, might snap something else up game continues. Makes the used $1100 Brompton seem not so bad.
still curious about specs for the Curl.
still curious about specs for the Curl.
#67
Palmer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,699
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1706 Post(s)
Liked 1,900 Times
in
1,099 Posts
Andrew Ritchie designed his Brompton with some funky swing down handlebars.
In 1981, Dr. Hon filed a patent for a folding bike with the now ubiquitous folding handlepost. Shortly after, the Brompton bike magically appeared improved with this feature and was marketed worldwide, despite the fact that Dr. Hon held a patent for this design.
Of course Dr. Hon copied Mr. Ritchie - Dr. Hon is, after all, Asian. Did Mr. Ritchie lift Dr. Hon's patented feature? Impossible! Mr. Ritchie is an Anglo-Saxon British gentleman.
In 1981, Dr. Hon filed a patent for a folding bike with the now ubiquitous folding handlepost. Shortly after, the Brompton bike magically appeared improved with this feature and was marketed worldwide, despite the fact that Dr. Hon held a patent for this design.
The folks from that corner of the globe are major copy-cats.
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,380
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times
in
9 Posts
Andrew Ritchie designed his Brompton with some funky swing down handlebars.
In 1981, Dr. Hon filed a patent for a folding bike with the now ubiquitous folding handlepost. Shortly after, the Brompton bike magically appeared improved with this feature and was marketed worldwide, despite the fact that Dr. Hon held a patent for this design.
Of course Dr. Hon copied Mr. Ritchie - Dr. Hon is, after all, Asian. Did Mr. Ritchie lift Dr. Hon's patented feature? Impossible! Mr. Ritchie is an Anglo-Saxon British gentleman.
In 1981, Dr. Hon filed a patent for a folding bike with the now ubiquitous folding handlepost. Shortly after, the Brompton bike magically appeared improved with this feature and was marketed worldwide, despite the fact that Dr. Hon held a patent for this design.
Of course Dr. Hon copied Mr. Ritchie - Dr. Hon is, after all, Asian. Did Mr. Ritchie lift Dr. Hon's patented feature? Impossible! Mr. Ritchie is an Anglo-Saxon British gentleman.
as with most disinfo, a 5 minute search for supporting data casts significant doubt on said claim. but, that's how disinfo works - you're repeating something you read and took at face value to be true without bothering to confirm it.
according to various sources cited [/URL]here, here, and here, brompton already had the first 30 bikes designed, refined, machined, tooled, assembled, delivered, and on the streets by march of 1981.
the patent claim from dahon for it's "quick release clamp" is dated with a priority date of 12 feb 81. "prioirty" dating is basically back-dating a submission to coincide with a submission date in another country. presumably, in this case it would have been initially filed in the united states. the filing date for the european patent is date one year later to feb 82.
it doesn't make any sense that ritchie could have "copied" dahon. brompton's were already in production before ritchie could have even seen these.
more importantly, what is dahon even accusing brompton of copying? a "45 degree angle fold".
...However, [Brompton]the technology is between 30 - 40 years old, and much is borrowed from the likes of Diblasi, DAHON and others. In fact 98% of folding bikes today use at least one or more DAHON patents both legally or illegally. Legal is when the patent expires or is licensed. And this includes Brompton which uses the DAHON patented 45 degree folding handle bar.
this is just a strawman argument they have tossed out into the public sphere to somehow muddy the water and mitigate the fact that they are trying to steal brompton's bicycle in total.
"Kew for a ride
From The Standard, Wednesday 3 February 1982, p. 19.
At 8.00 a.m. today, as always, Andrew Ritchie arrived at work on his bike. Mr Ritchie works at Kew. He has a workshop there and he built the bike he arrived on in the workshop.
A most remarkable bike it is too. It takes a few seconds to fold it up into a neat package less than 2 ft square which you can pick up and carry anywhere.
No other collapsible bike in the world, says Ritchie, collapses so totally and so easily. And it is just as simple to un-collapse it into a bike again.
Ritchie, an old Harrovian who read engineering at Cambridge, is 35 and says he is appalled by the amount of his life he has already given to this bike.
He had the idea at the beginning of 1976, but it wasn't until early last year that he was able to move into the workshop at Kew and put the bike into production.
He had orders for 30 bikes, mostly from friends and friends of friends. These were made and delivered by last March and, to his great relief, they brought in orders for 20 more.
By the time these were made another 30 orders had come in and there was some welcome help from HMG in the shape of a Small Firms Loan Guarantee.
So this particular small firm stays bravely afloat in these choppy seas, an example to us all.
It currently has a workforce of two – Patrick Mulligan, brazier and Andrew Ritchie, managing director and assembler – and this will increase as orders come in.
Meanwhile there are 56 Bromptons – that is what the bike is called – on the road now and 24 more ready for delivery and I can report that Judge Abdela has been seen arriving at the Old Bailey on one, that Lord Fraser of Tulley-Belton, the Scottish Law Lord, rides one, and that Ritchie's bike, No 7 from the production line, got him from South Kensington to Kew and back all through the blizzards."
From The Standard, Wednesday 3 February 1982, p. 19.
At 8.00 a.m. today, as always, Andrew Ritchie arrived at work on his bike. Mr Ritchie works at Kew. He has a workshop there and he built the bike he arrived on in the workshop.
A most remarkable bike it is too. It takes a few seconds to fold it up into a neat package less than 2 ft square which you can pick up and carry anywhere.
No other collapsible bike in the world, says Ritchie, collapses so totally and so easily. And it is just as simple to un-collapse it into a bike again.
Ritchie, an old Harrovian who read engineering at Cambridge, is 35 and says he is appalled by the amount of his life he has already given to this bike.
He had the idea at the beginning of 1976, but it wasn't until early last year that he was able to move into the workshop at Kew and put the bike into production.
He had orders for 30 bikes, mostly from friends and friends of friends. These were made and delivered by last March and, to his great relief, they brought in orders for 20 more.
By the time these were made another 30 orders had come in and there was some welcome help from HMG in the shape of a Small Firms Loan Guarantee.
So this particular small firm stays bravely afloat in these choppy seas, an example to us all.
It currently has a workforce of two – Patrick Mulligan, brazier and Andrew Ritchie, managing director and assembler – and this will increase as orders come in.
Meanwhile there are 56 Bromptons – that is what the bike is called – on the road now and 24 more ready for delivery and I can report that Judge Abdela has been seen arriving at the Old Bailey on one, that Lord Fraser of Tulley-Belton, the Scottish Law Lord, rides one, and that Ritchie's bike, No 7 from the production line, got him from South Kensington to Kew and back all through the blizzards."
by september of '82, this receipt confirms that 206 bikes had been made. this comports clearly with the above article that production would ramp up as more orders came in.
incidentally, this is the bike that recently sold on aussie ebay serial number 132:
if anyone would like to refute this, please feel free to do so. but, just remember that calling someone a "fanboy" and accusing the person of "crazy rants" is just ad hominem and confirms you have no argument.
Last edited by smallwheeler; 09-24-14 at 04:35 PM.
#69
55+ Club,...
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,404
Bikes: 9+,...
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1153 Post(s)
Liked 894 Times
in
628 Posts
Thanks.
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
#71
55+ Club,...
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,404
Bikes: 9+,...
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1153 Post(s)
Liked 894 Times
in
628 Posts
And I promise, when I finally buy something from you, no B******G or complaining!!! I reserve that for the horrid seller I had to deal with on eBay. I expect honestly when I deal with a seller/buyer. I know I'd never have to worry about a purchase from you.
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
#72
The Metropolis, UK
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,353
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
You brompton boys are some of the worst i've seen. Jeez.
Last edited by mulleady; 09-28-14 at 11:12 AM.
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Silicon Valley, CA.
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
as with most disinfo, a 5 minute search for supporting data casts significant doubt on said claim. but, that's how disinfo works - you're repeating something you read and took at face value to be true without bothering to confirm it.
[lots of information with citation, as it should be with a rational argument]
if anyone would like to refute this, please feel free to do so. but, just remember that calling someone a "fanboy" and accusing the person of "crazy rants" is just ad hominem and confirms you have no argument.
[lots of information with citation, as it should be with a rational argument]
if anyone would like to refute this, please feel free to do so. but, just remember that calling someone a "fanboy" and accusing the person of "crazy rants" is just ad hominem and confirms you have no argument.
The essence of the Brompton isn't its silly non-QR brakes, narrow dropout widths or all that proprietary items that some have claimed were different on the Dahon Curl and therefore made the Curl a differentiated product. Rather, the essence of the Brompton is its fold, which is functionally copied in its entirety by Dahon for the Curl. There is no way around it. The Brompton fold was unique prior to the introduction of this copy cat.
I'm left wondering if Dahon really thought the Brompton fold was the cat's meow, why can't they just license or even buy up Brompton for its design? Or perhaps collaborate with Brompton to forge a partnership that will benefit both companies and their customers. Why do the dishonorable thing when there are so many other better options?