LaughingLots

You simply don't know what you're going on about. NICA programs are not fringe programs. These facts are based upon my kid's four years of HS racing. Many schools have 70+ kids on the teams. Larger teams than any sports short of football. Individual NICA leagues have more detailed information if you're willing to educate yourself.

Venues are becoming hard to come by because they can't accommodate all of the racers, parents, coaches, etc.

My bad for even trying to educate you. You're crazy misinformed, in a fringe kind of way.

Dave Cutter

This must be really influenced by your location.

Locally... we have a huge BMX park (city owned-operated) it was hugely popular for a few years. Now... it just takes up space. These things come and go. Glad your kids have had a great experience!!!! I hope the NICA continues to grow.

GP

They used to have a rep that posted here. I PMed him a couple times for info.

LaughingLots

Yes. I was fortunate enough to escape the Midwest many years ago.

My personal experience is based upon HS racing in California. There is also ample information available about other highly successful leagues across the country if someone is willing to educate themselves.

Dave Cutter

Yes apparently the gates aren't well guarded. There was period in the 70's when population numbers in many Midwestern states fell dramatically. Some states have faired well since then... others not so much. These things happen. There are natural cycles to things.... some last longer than a lifetime.

Actually... cycling programs have been around for some time. But never (never counts today as well) nationally. And unfortunately never in real numbers.

If you sing opera for a living.... in your life... it will seem as though the whole world adores opera. I don't need your education. I have a good understanding of the cycling sports. But I am also stuck with a perspective.

PaulRivers

Wow this thread went downhill fast.

For the OP's original thing, yeah, I definitely have seen the same thing. There have been some improvements - a lot of the straight bar road bikes now come with mounts for racks and fenders, and a chain guard on the front set of gears. Straight bar bikes are a lot easier to fit compared to road bikes as well.

But even then, my mom just bought a bike (I feel obligated to mention I'm far out of college lol) and she has to go through do you want a rack? Water bottle cage? Which water bottle? Which rack? Which bag for the rack? Oh, you wanted a kickstand to. She didn't even need any lights.

LaughingLots

So yeah, you're wrong again and again. National HS programs exist as well as "real numbers' of participants (800 of the best at the CA State Championship race for example).

"I have thought for some years.... the best advocacy for cycling sports would be high school cycling programs."

zandoval 

This says it...
What is the best bike...
Its the one you enjoy riding....
Every time I think of my old "Western Flyer" it makes me smile...

I always advise people to just get a bike that fairly fits and just take it out and ride. Then they can keep it for a back up when they go on to better quality. Most of us geezers that are into bikes have got that old favorite beater waiting over in the corner and ready to please. Our family favorite is a late 60's "Ted Williams" (Sears/Puch) Girls Bike. Every time my Boys get back into town they take it for a spin and come back smiling...

kevindsingleton 

Aww. You roooooned it! I was thinkin' you got your Big Chief tablet and a fat kindergarten pencil and tossed off a nice epistle!

T Stew

The problem with this very common captain obvious solution is that many people don't want to spend the kind of $$$ a bike shop wants for bikes. So, sure a bike shop is great if you want a new bike and don't mind spending the prices they bring. If you're more budget oriented and want a much higher end bike for a lot less money buying used, you're still pretty much on your own to figure things out. I suppose if you happen to have a bike shop that also has a good used selection then that opens up more possibilities. Some of us don't even have a local bike shop.

jefnvk

I graduated in 2004. My high school was a public school in an affluent area. We had an equestrian team, golf, the occasional skeet shooting team, ice hockey, and quite a few higher end sports, but no cycling. No high schools around us had cycling. Looking at MHSAA's site now, I don't see cycling. I see an organization that markets themselves to high school aged kids, but only has 9 affiliated members, half of which are LBS teams and all of which are in the Detroit area.

Maybe they are common where you are, but that certainly does not mean they are commonplace everywhere.

jade408

I blame that on the bike industry and their marketing and messaging.

It is twofold. We think of bikes as toys. Toys for kids. Or toys for middle aged men who want to show off to their friends.

The bike industry hasn't articulated why or how the average Joe or Jane should bike. What you get by spending more other than bragging rights or saving 30 seconds on a one hour ride.

The messaging doesn't resonate with the average person who doesn't see a place for themselves in cycling if they don't care about mountain biking, racing or triathlons.

Biking also hasn't sold to people with more disposable income who don't race. Where's the soul cycle bike. Where's the yoga bike. Where's the Lululemon bike?

mrodgers

Thousands upon thousands are out there enjoying their $99 Walmart bike every bit as much as everyone here is enjoying their $500-10,000 bike shop bike.

The same is always said about kayaks. You won't enjoy it unless you are in a racy long fiberglass or composite kayak. Yet, every time I'm out on the water, there are hundreds out there with me in a $189 10 foot Pelican from Dick's enjoying it every bit as much as I am.

I enjoy photography. I take pictures that are 100 times better with my $200 camera than thousands of people using $2000 equipment.

I'm not very good, but I get just as much enjoyment noodling around and playing what few songs I know on my $200 Cort guitar as others do with their $3000 Fenders.

bmthom.gis

The people who are going to agonize about every single bit on a bike can certainly afford to go to a shop. Maybe they don't *want* to, but actual deals on the used market are far and few between...unless you can work on a bike yourself. By the time you find a "deal" and then pay a mechanic to go over it, tune it up and take care of any other problems it has, you may as well have bought from the shop and gotten warranties and shop support and often times a discount on accessories and possibly a rewards point program to get more money off future purchases.

For instance, the shop I worked at sold Schwinn (the upper level not at department stores), SE, etc, which were all above department store prices and would break even if one were to buy from X Mart and bring a bike in to have it assembled properly, make sure that things are greased, and everything is in proper working order. Not only was the quality slightly better, at least they were all assembled by trained mechanics. They would work just fine as transportation or riding around the neighborhood or beach.

A good shop will sell budget oriented bikes and used bikes they get as trade ins. Those on a tight budget tend to know how much they can spend, go on Craigslist and find one that matches their budget without doing all of this research (research research research research)

Personally, I enjoy the research into the brand, digging through vintage catalogs, etc. It's fun for me. I do my own wrenching and have enough spare parts to get a bike running, and if you have the knowledge to work on bikes, chances are you might also enjoy doing all of this (oftentimes unnecessary) research

Dave Cutter

OK... you win! All that can be done for cycling sports (according to you) has been done! So... in YOUR opinion what can be done... to turn people on to cycling sports?!?!?

What will/could or might help to take some of the mystery out of bicycle fit, use, and such for the general NON-cycling public?

I-Like-To-Bike

How 'bout Soul People on Bikes? And one guy who likes to listen to Soul Music while cycling!

Dave Cutter

You're right! Right in the way that if a sports team fails to win... it's the coaches fault. Although... in reality maybe the scouting guys didn't bring in the needed talent. Or maybe a star player... developed a drug problem.

Marketing was doing a bang-up job and cycling popularity was soaring.... until Americas world famous cycling star was defamed due to sports drugging (cheating). [bicycle] Marketing departments exploited those Yellow Jerseys for more money... than the guy who won them. Those were the days!

I think stepping back and away from the Tour de France.... might have been a good idea for cycling marketers. At lease for a period of time. And just where/who do they hitch their advertising wagon to now? Who ISN'T doing drugs? I wonder.... any great Mormon cyclists coming out of Utah?

There was a time when catchy tunes sold even big ticket purchases. But consumers have become very sophisticated.

bmthom.gis

I think you can really lay the blame on poor cycling infrastructure, urban sprawl, and the preference of many to live out in the suburbs. Those who live in cities (or small towns) have the advantage over those who live close to the city and no good way to get into it by bike. That easily drives cycling as a sport vs cycling as transportation. As people move back into cities and bike advocacy takes off, I think we will see more transportation oriented cycling be advertised. The fixie craze needs to die down a bit still (plenty of cheap, generic fixies with bullhorn or straight handlebars are available out there).

jade408

Nope it is on them. They hitched their wheel to one type of target customer, one market segment. And when it exploded they did too. Apple used to only sell desktop computers. Then they released laptops and their laptops were more popular than the desktops. Then they decided to make OS agnostic music players. Boom! Whole new market. Mac vs PC didn't even matter. And they made phones. And suddenly those people who liked phones and music players said maybe I should check out these computers. Suddenly people have multiple i-devices and upgrade pretty often.

The biking industry was like "yay racing, we don't need to talk to anyone else. Everyone wants to be a racer." Then suddenly no one want to be a racer. And they didn't diversify the messaging to talk to non-racers and became less relevant.

T Stew

Sorry but I tend to disagree with about all of this.

LaughingLots

I never claimed that they were commonplace, merely that they were not "fringe."

LaughingLots

I didn't post that nor do I believe that.

That's just a strawman that you created. Sad.

jefnvk

I suppose it is all perspective. Most would probably consider high school ice hockey to be fringe, here it is ubiquitous.

idiotekniQues

I enjoy photography and started out with a $200 Canon Elph Point and Shoot. I had a ton of fun with it and took some great shots but upgrading to a dslr system (which has now become a mirrorless system) really let me take advantage of wider lenses, true shallow DOF, faster focusing, true macro shooting, shooting 5+FPS, and many more things. I caught images with my setup that would have been impossible with my $200 camera. The gear doesn't make you a better photographer but there is a certain level of gear that will enable you to do more things if you learn it well and have some talent.

LaughingLots

How did you determine that?

p.s. "It's what I imagine!" doesn't count as a factual answer.