Gear step, how close is too close for simple long distance commuting?
#51
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,464
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3133 Post(s)
Liked 2,116 Times
in
1,379 Posts
![Darth Lefty is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Likes For Darth Lefty:
#52
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,612
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
![livedarklions is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2953 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Winter in BF Land.
![caloso is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,914
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
512 Posts
It's half step gearing, with the rear jumps of 14% and front jumps of 7%. This style emerged in the days of fewer cogs in the rear with wider range jumps, and a half-step double or triple on the rear to give the smoother transitions between. It works a charm once you've learned and committed it to muscle memory. Very nice.
By the way, to the OP, I'd go 42/45 with the rear 14-34 that you've described.
By the way, to the OP, I'd go 42/45 with the rear 14-34 that you've described.
One thing is, you have to accept cross-chaining. But back 50 years ago, people were not so concerned about cross-chaining on 2x5 and 2x6 gearing equipments.
![Road Fan is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,145
Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4073 Post(s)
Liked 7,665 Times
in
3,076 Posts
Exactly, Phil! A lot of people don't know about the shifting sequence that the pattern was designed for. small to large, then large to small and one harder in the rear. the change from small to large takes you ½ step harder, then the shift from large back to small takes you back ½ step but the associated fhift to the next smaller sprocet takes you up a whole step for a net ½ gain.
One thing is, you have to accept cross-chaining. But back 50 years ago, people were not so concerned about cross-chaining on 2x5 and 2x6 gearing equipments.
One thing is, you have to accept cross-chaining. But back 50 years ago, people were not so concerned about cross-chaining on 2x5 and 2x6 gearing equipments.
![tomato coupe is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,914
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
512 Posts
Yes, Tomato, that's true. Today one can design a half-step to use on a 2x10, but you end up with very small tooth jumps in the chainring, and hence the smallest value of the actual half-step is not a useful gear change, and is in no way useful. 12 speed hardware may ameliorate the matter, since the biiiig new rear sprockets open up the design space. A modern crossover is much more useful (without crazy bigs in the back), say a 50/34 or 46/30. But up to 6 and some times a 7, it can get you a good range and no lost gears.
![Road Fan is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,914
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
512 Posts
It's half step gearing, with the rear jumps of 14% and front jumps of 7%. This style emerged in the days of fewer cogs in the rear with wider range jumps, and a half-step double or triple on the rear to give the smoother transitions between. It works a charm once you've learned and committed it to muscle memory. Very nice.
By the way, to the OP, I'd go 42/45 with the rear 14-34 that you've described.
By the way, to the OP, I'd go 42/45 with the rear 14-34 that you've described.
![Road Fan is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#58
Not lost wanderer.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Lititz, Pa
Posts: 3,387
Bikes: In USA; 73 Raleigh Super Course dingle speed, 72 Raleigh Gran Sport SS, 72 Geoffry Butler, 81 Centurion Pro-Tour, 74 Gugie Grandier Sportier
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 901 Post(s)
Liked 1,048 Times
in
552 Posts
here is the difference with a 45 or 46 large chain ring, this is showing the step between 28 and 34 is better with a 46 but the rest is better with a 45.
![](https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/1189x740/45_or_46_77a096d1f34ca6cfa652e2adcfe09c219b46d6cc.jpg)
If you went with a 32 big cog it would even everything out
![](https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/1189x740/45_or_46_77a096d1f34ca6cfa652e2adcfe09c219b46d6cc.jpg)
If you went with a 32 big cog it would even everything out
![](https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikeforums.net-vbulletin/1172x510/change_to_32_e9965b2411a7ef096e8bfa1e1fed517da0285617.jpg)
![bwilli88 is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: San Diego
Posts: 720
Bikes: 1978 Bruce Gordon, 1977 Lippy, 199? Lippy tandem, Bike Friday NWT, 1982 Trek 720, 2012 Rivendell Atlantis, 1983 Bianchi Specialissima?
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked 186 Times
in
114 Posts
Yes, Tomato, that's true. Today one can design a half-step to use on a 2x10, but you end up with very small tooth jumps in the chainring, and hence the smallest value of the actual half-step is not a useful gear change, and is in no way useful. 12 speed hardware may ameliorate the matter, since the biiiig new rear sprockets open up the design space. A modern crossover is much more useful (without crazy bigs in the back), say a 50/34 or 46/30. But up to 6 and some times a 7, it can get you a good range and no lost gears.
![L134 is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#60
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
IMO you are over thinking gearing. For commuting, even tho I am a bent and trike rider, a mountain bike would probable be best. They will have a triple in front and a standard cluster in back. Use the front triple for hills flats and down hill. Then just shift across the rear cluster as needed. Double shifting in an out and out nuisance.
![rydabent is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,914
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
512 Posts
![Road Fan is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Likes For Road Fan:
#62
Zip tie Karen
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fair Oaks Ranch, TX
Posts: 7,004
Bikes: '13 Motobecane Fantom29 HT, '16 Motobecane Turino Pro Disc, '18 Velobuild VB-R-022, '21 Tsunami SNM-100
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1465 Post(s)
Liked 1,543 Times
in
807 Posts
The bottom graphic is what you want. Go with what's shown here. Even steps from 35 to 87 G.I. What's not to like? PG
![Phil_gretz is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#63
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,914
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
512 Posts
You don't necessarily need a chain tensioner (depends on the bike) and with grades of only 3-8% you shouldn't need to swap cogs.
My larger point is that the kvetching about gearing jumps is...well, it's just kvetching. Some of the guys I see at our area gravel races are on SS bikes -- for 60+ mile events that usually include 20%+ climbs. I couldn't do that, but I do commute on a SS, and my commute is shorter than yours but includes steeper climbs. And shoot, I'm an old man. If you've got a bunch of gear choices, the details aren't really that important, are they?
My larger point is that the kvetching about gearing jumps is...well, it's just kvetching. Some of the guys I see at our area gravel races are on SS bikes -- for 60+ mile events that usually include 20%+ climbs. I couldn't do that, but I do commute on a SS, and my commute is shorter than yours but includes steeper climbs. And shoot, I'm an old man. If you've got a bunch of gear choices, the details aren't really that important, are they?
As an expert gear kvetch, I'm happy to help another aspiring gear kvetch learn to kvetch as well as the masters, and to learn to see why to kvetch and why not to kvetch.
![Road Fan is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,914
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
512 Posts
IMO you are over thinking gearing. For commuting, even tho I am a bent and trike rider, a mountain bike would probable be best. They will have a triple in front and a standard cluster in back. Use the front triple for hills flats and down hill. Then just shift across the rear cluster as needed. Double shifting in an out and out nuisance.
![Road Fan is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Likes For Outrider1:
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,669
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18596 Post(s)
Liked 16,094 Times
in
7,557 Posts
![indyfabz is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,914
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1872 Post(s)
Liked 671 Times
in
512 Posts
I've been on this site for longer than nearly all of the feared "zombie" threads have been. My experience is that interested people will read about what they are interested in, even if it carries a date code. Half-step designs have existed since I first saw 2 x 10 bikes (maybe some 2 x 8's?) in LBS, and a few good write-ups in library books since I was in grade school. If you're really interested in half-steps, it does not matter when the best tutorials were written.
![Road Fan is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,693
Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7733 Post(s)
Liked 3,668 Times
in
1,936 Posts
If you ask whether something is too much anything, as OP did here, what other than our riding experience do we have to offer?
I don't think anyone rational finds all details important, so the real question is whether gear step size is an important detail for a commuter or not.
I don't think anyone rational finds all details important, so the real question is whether gear step size is an important detail for a commuter or not.
The OP asked about wide-ranged gearing to make commuting easier, and the response was, "Don't even bother." In effect, the response was, "You are wrong to even be thinking about gearing." The commenter then accused the OP of "kvetching" (which I interpret as "whining" or "pointlessly complaining") about gear choices. On the whole I would say that is a fairly disrespectful response, thought it was not apparently meant that way.
For instance, if I replied, "Just get a throttled e-bike that maxes out at 32 mph and forget all about pedaling---that is what I do, Quit whining about gearing," I think I would hear a lot of pushback.
I think the OP has a valid question. He wants a wider range of usable gears with small steps so he can have efficiency on the flats and still make the climbs in comfort. "Kvetching:" would more be saying., "No company makes the exact cassette and chain ring combo I need. It is so unfair." Merely inquiring about the best set-up .... isn't that sort of one of the reasons we have this site?
In Any Case .... As others have said, half-step gearing isn't really effective with today's tighter cassettes. If the OP has an old 7-speed 14-34 .... I'd simply upgrade to a more modern 9,10, or 11-speed, probably Microshift or Micronew to avoid paying Shimano prices.
If the OP is determined to ride a 7-speed ..... with modern brifters, even with the longish throw on many front shifters, half-step shifting should work a lot better than it did back in the day.
My '83 Cannondale had (I think) a 48-44-32 triple with seven cogs in back and half-step shifting with downtube friction shifters was kind of a pain. With brifters (or STI shifters for those who hate certain words) it would still be less ergonomically efficient as a proper modern set-up (because of the long throw) but nothing to worry about.
As far as the exact gear choices .... plenty of folks have worked it out. personally I would leave the 34 out of the rotation .... use the 28 as the lowest practical gear and use the 34 as a granny gear (low-low (or big-big.) Then the stepes between gears are a little more even.
However, again .... it is likely that most people would not be upset by nor even much notice, the slight differences between jumps. No matter how it looks on paper, out on the road most riders would just make the slightest adjustments in cadence or pressure to suit the situation ... and because the environment, from the road surface to the wind to the load carried to rider fatigue, differs constantly during each ride as well as from ride to ride ... overthinking it is really not worthwhile (which is more what the "kvetching" comment was addressing, if somewhat clumsily (IMO)).
However yet again, though ... some folks really like planning out all the ratios on paper and making micro-adjustments, even if out on the road there is no practical difference. So, I won't rain on anyone's commute ....
And Ultimately .... Ugh! I responded to a Zombie thread ..... I noticed Jim from Boston weighed in, and I hadn't seen him for a long time ... but I hoped he had been lurking and decided to pop back in. No such luck.
![Maelochs is online now](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_online.gif)
#69
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,851
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1175 Post(s)
Liked 938 Times
in
621 Posts
Thanks.
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
![Homebrew01 is offline](https://www.bikeforums.net/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif)
Likes For Homebrew01: