Riding brakeless - what is the ADVANTAGE?
08-16-09, 09:52 PM
#78
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the original post was obviously a troll, but fun conversation always results!
08-16-09, 09:57 PM
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It's way more funner!
Seriously, I have 4 fixed bikes, half with brakes, half without. I honestly don't feel any safer with a brake. The placement of the lever vs. where my hands usually are make them usless in an "oh ****" moment anyway, and this is true of most people I see riding with brakes.
Seriously, I have 4 fixed bikes, half with brakes, half without. I honestly don't feel any safer with a brake. The placement of the lever vs. where my hands usually are make them usless in an "oh ****" moment anyway, and this is true of most people I see riding with brakes.
08-16-09, 10:00 PM
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It's way more funner!
Seriously, I have 4 fixed bikes, half with brakes, half without. I honestly don't feel any safer with a brake. The placement of the lever vs. where my hands usually are make them usless in an "oh ****" moment anyway, and this is true of most people I see riding with brakes.
Seriously, I have 4 fixed bikes, half with brakes, half without. I honestly don't feel any safer with a brake. The placement of the lever vs. where my hands usually are make them usless in an "oh ****" moment anyway, and this is true of most people I see riding with brakes.
08-16-09, 10:14 PM
#82
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08-16-09, 10:48 PM
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I've ridden fixed for a little more than four years.
First year, I needed a brake all the time.
Second year, I needed a brake most of the time.
Third year, I needed a brake sometimes, but rarely.
Fourth year, I don't need a brake.
Now this requires some additional qualification.
During the first year I rode several gear ratio between 72 and 82 gear inches, and if I didn't have a brake I would have needed to skid.
My tires cost too much money to skid, so I needed a brake.
Second year, I experimented with gearings below 72 gear inches and I found that at 72 gear inches and below, I could stop without a brake, but not very quickly nor reliably...so, I needed a brake.
The third year I underwent chemotherapy for six months, and I geared down to 61 gear inches so that I could keep riding, and I found I could brake reliably below 63 gear inches.
The fourth year, with my health and energy back, I decided to stay at 61 gear inches and learn to spin; and I REALLY learned to spin, so that I got around town as fast my fourth year at 61 gear inches as I did my first year at 82 gear inches.
However, I also realized during my fourth year that I had stopped using my brake....so I took it off.
I've started doing something as a result.
If I find myself "surprised" by a car, so that I have to make a maximum effort to brake with my legs, or if I inadvertently skid or skip, I turn around and reapproach the situation and imprint it on my mind so that I will have a higher probability of seeing it coming the next time...or I review my thoughts prior to the braking event in order to train my mind to ride and not to daydream.
I confess that the younger and stronger riders on this forum, riding with a brake and a higher gearing, would beat me in a race, even if they didn't know about the race.
In truth, I can't ride as fast without a brake as I could with a brake, but I ride faster now without a brake than I used to ride with a brake.
I enjoy the challenge and the learning that goes along with riding safely without a brake.
If I couldn't ride safely without a brake, I would put on a brake.
And, if I wanted to maximize speed around town over joy around town, I'd put on a brake.
As a general statement of my opinion, I'd say if you have to skid you need a brake; and, if you ride with higher than 72 gear inches you need a brake.
For myself, I have to get down to 63 gear inches or below in order to safely ride brakeless.
That said, when I don't try, I average 15mph in urban traffic, stoplights and all.
If I try, I can almost average 20mph (19.7mph) in urban traffic, stoplights and all, but I can't sustain that level of average speed day after day.
High spin rates have become normal and comfortable for me.
First year, I needed a brake all the time.
Second year, I needed a brake most of the time.
Third year, I needed a brake sometimes, but rarely.
Fourth year, I don't need a brake.
Now this requires some additional qualification.
During the first year I rode several gear ratio between 72 and 82 gear inches, and if I didn't have a brake I would have needed to skid.
My tires cost too much money to skid, so I needed a brake.
Second year, I experimented with gearings below 72 gear inches and I found that at 72 gear inches and below, I could stop without a brake, but not very quickly nor reliably...so, I needed a brake.
The third year I underwent chemotherapy for six months, and I geared down to 61 gear inches so that I could keep riding, and I found I could brake reliably below 63 gear inches.
The fourth year, with my health and energy back, I decided to stay at 61 gear inches and learn to spin; and I REALLY learned to spin, so that I got around town as fast my fourth year at 61 gear inches as I did my first year at 82 gear inches.
However, I also realized during my fourth year that I had stopped using my brake....so I took it off.
I've started doing something as a result.
If I find myself "surprised" by a car, so that I have to make a maximum effort to brake with my legs, or if I inadvertently skid or skip, I turn around and reapproach the situation and imprint it on my mind so that I will have a higher probability of seeing it coming the next time...or I review my thoughts prior to the braking event in order to train my mind to ride and not to daydream.
I confess that the younger and stronger riders on this forum, riding with a brake and a higher gearing, would beat me in a race, even if they didn't know about the race.
In truth, I can't ride as fast without a brake as I could with a brake, but I ride faster now without a brake than I used to ride with a brake.
I enjoy the challenge and the learning that goes along with riding safely without a brake.
If I couldn't ride safely without a brake, I would put on a brake.
And, if I wanted to maximize speed around town over joy around town, I'd put on a brake.
As a general statement of my opinion, I'd say if you have to skid you need a brake; and, if you ride with higher than 72 gear inches you need a brake.
For myself, I have to get down to 63 gear inches or below in order to safely ride brakeless.
That said, when I don't try, I average 15mph in urban traffic, stoplights and all.
If I try, I can almost average 20mph (19.7mph) in urban traffic, stoplights and all, but I can't sustain that level of average speed day after day.
High spin rates have become normal and comfortable for me.
08-16-09, 10:52 PM
#85
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Absolutely. That was kind of my point. The pro-brake crowd seem to love to argue that they are important to have in an emergency, yet almost every fixed gear bike I see has drops or bullhorns with a small cross lever. How often do these people ride on the flat near the stem where they could reach that brake in an emergency? I have a bike with bullhorns and a brake and another with drops and a brake. On the horns I can get the brake with my thumb, but I don't have good control of it, certainly not in an emergency. With the drops the cross lever is useless if my hands are anywhere on the bars other than the flat near the stem. Those brakes are hardly going to save me in an emergency and this is true of most people I've seen riding with brakes.
08-17-09, 03:13 AM
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Its funny to me all joking aside that both sides are speaking some truth of the brakeless issue , yet ,not really doing anything much but seemingly disagreeing totally .
Brakeless for me is an issue of "hyper-awareness" ,and not having a brake is not an issue of having to skid to a stop , we have other techniques we learn like skipping .This seems a better means , esp , here in Seattle during our rainy seasons .regardless of rain I have learned that a straight skid is a loss of traction and certain factors should be maximized to avoid long skids.A seated skid offers alot of stopping power for me along with skipping that I use in varying styles either by braking the stop with a rotation and then skidding are skipping with the opposite side .this brakes the loss of traction and can add alot to your stop .you would be surprised at how well I can stop or even make it down steep hills with different techniques .
brakeless is very engaging for me , maybe it is less safe . I have to imagine possible obstacles as I ride and counter them before they happen . This may seem odd to a lot of people at first, yet the risk , i think , added to all of the enjoyment of riding brakeless at first and drew me in more .There is alot at stake like for instance ,you life . Take it slow as you learn and practice tons .
I could go on all day , yet I'll keep it short for this thread . (maybe I screwed that already)
The advantages for me are an engaging ride that challenges me and pushes me into a state of hyper focus and adds to that high I get when I mash it out .
Not so much to make my bike look cool , yet it does look clean without brakes I must admit .
lets respect each other on this issue , despite what a lot of you think . bf is not a good defining opinion(s) on riding brakeless , maybe its the guys who ride and ride their addictive bikes and spend little time on the net because it offers not much excitement in comparability (?)
Brakeless for me is an issue of "hyper-awareness" ,and not having a brake is not an issue of having to skid to a stop , we have other techniques we learn like skipping .This seems a better means , esp , here in Seattle during our rainy seasons .regardless of rain I have learned that a straight skid is a loss of traction and certain factors should be maximized to avoid long skids.A seated skid offers alot of stopping power for me along with skipping that I use in varying styles either by braking the stop with a rotation and then skidding are skipping with the opposite side .this brakes the loss of traction and can add alot to your stop .you would be surprised at how well I can stop or even make it down steep hills with different techniques .
brakeless is very engaging for me , maybe it is less safe . I have to imagine possible obstacles as I ride and counter them before they happen . This may seem odd to a lot of people at first, yet the risk , i think , added to all of the enjoyment of riding brakeless at first and drew me in more .There is alot at stake like for instance ,you life . Take it slow as you learn and practice tons .
I could go on all day , yet I'll keep it short for this thread . (maybe I screwed that already)
The advantages for me are an engaging ride that challenges me and pushes me into a state of hyper focus and adds to that high I get when I mash it out .
Not so much to make my bike look cool , yet it does look clean without brakes I must admit .
lets respect each other on this issue , despite what a lot of you think . bf is not a good defining opinion(s) on riding brakeless , maybe its the guys who ride and ride their addictive bikes and spend little time on the net because it offers not much excitement in comparability (?)
08-17-09, 03:29 AM
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lets respect each other on this issue , despite what a lot of you think . bf is not a good defining opinion(s) on riding brakeless , maybe its the guys who ride and ride their addictive bikes and spend little time on the net because it offers not much excitement in comparability (?)
08-17-09, 03:31 AM
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I've ridden fixed for a little more than four years.
First year, I needed a brake all the time.
Second year, I needed a brake most of the time.
Third year, I needed a brake sometimes, but rarely.
Fourth year, I don't need a brake.
Now this requires some additional qualification.
During the first year I rode several gear ratio between 72 and 82 gear inches, and if I didn't have a brake I would have needed to skid.
My tires cost too much money to skid, so I needed a brake.
Second year, I experimented with gearings below 72 gear inches and I found that at 72 gear inches and below, I could stop without a brake, but not very quickly nor reliably...so, I needed a brake.
The third year I underwent chemotherapy for six months, and I geared down to 61 gear inches so that I could keep riding, and I found I could brake reliably below 63 gear inches.
The fourth year, with my health and energy back, I decided to stay at 61 gear inches and learn to spin; and I REALLY learned to spin, so that I got around town as fast my fourth year at 61 gear inches as I did my first year at 82 gear inches.
However, I also realized during my fourth year that I had stopped using my brake....so I took it off.
I've started doing something as a result.
If I find myself "surprised" by a car, so that I have to make a maximum effort to brake with my legs, or if I inadvertently skid or skip, I turn around and reapproach the situation and imprint it on my mind so that I will have a higher probability of seeing it coming the next time...or I review my thoughts prior to the braking event in order to train my mind to ride and not to daydream.
I confess that the younger and stronger riders on this forum, riding with a brake and a higher gearing, would beat me in a race, even if they didn't know about the race.
In truth, I can't ride as fast without a brake as I could with a brake, but I ride faster now without a brake than I used to ride with a brake.
I enjoy the challenge and the learning that goes along with riding safely without a brake.
If I couldn't ride safely without a brake, I would put on a brake.
And, if I wanted to maximize speed around town over joy around town, I'd put on a brake.
As a general statement of my opinion, I'd say if you have to skid you need a brake; and, if you ride with higher than 72 gear inches you need a brake.
For myself, I have to get down to 63 gear inches or below in order to safely ride brakeless.
That said, when I don't try, I average 15mph in urban traffic, stoplights and all.
If I try, I can almost average 20mph (19.7mph) in urban traffic, stoplights and all, but I can't sustain that level of average speed day after day.
High spin rates have become normal and comfortable for me.
First year, I needed a brake all the time.
Second year, I needed a brake most of the time.
Third year, I needed a brake sometimes, but rarely.
Fourth year, I don't need a brake.
Now this requires some additional qualification.
During the first year I rode several gear ratio between 72 and 82 gear inches, and if I didn't have a brake I would have needed to skid.
My tires cost too much money to skid, so I needed a brake.
Second year, I experimented with gearings below 72 gear inches and I found that at 72 gear inches and below, I could stop without a brake, but not very quickly nor reliably...so, I needed a brake.
The third year I underwent chemotherapy for six months, and I geared down to 61 gear inches so that I could keep riding, and I found I could brake reliably below 63 gear inches.
The fourth year, with my health and energy back, I decided to stay at 61 gear inches and learn to spin; and I REALLY learned to spin, so that I got around town as fast my fourth year at 61 gear inches as I did my first year at 82 gear inches.
However, I also realized during my fourth year that I had stopped using my brake....so I took it off.
I've started doing something as a result.
If I find myself "surprised" by a car, so that I have to make a maximum effort to brake with my legs, or if I inadvertently skid or skip, I turn around and reapproach the situation and imprint it on my mind so that I will have a higher probability of seeing it coming the next time...or I review my thoughts prior to the braking event in order to train my mind to ride and not to daydream.
I confess that the younger and stronger riders on this forum, riding with a brake and a higher gearing, would beat me in a race, even if they didn't know about the race.
In truth, I can't ride as fast without a brake as I could with a brake, but I ride faster now without a brake than I used to ride with a brake.
I enjoy the challenge and the learning that goes along with riding safely without a brake.
If I couldn't ride safely without a brake, I would put on a brake.
And, if I wanted to maximize speed around town over joy around town, I'd put on a brake.
As a general statement of my opinion, I'd say if you have to skid you need a brake; and, if you ride with higher than 72 gear inches you need a brake.
For myself, I have to get down to 63 gear inches or below in order to safely ride brakeless.
That said, when I don't try, I average 15mph in urban traffic, stoplights and all.
If I try, I can almost average 20mph (19.7mph) in urban traffic, stoplights and all, but I can't sustain that level of average speed day after day.
High spin rates have become normal and comfortable for me.
mind you people that the awareness , and skills of the fixed gear brakeless rider acts as our brake . Learn brakeless , dont be brakeless.
Last edited by azukisingle; 08-17-09 at 03:36 AM.
08-17-09, 10:28 AM
#91
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I never use a skid to stop myself when riding brakeless since I tend to moderate my speed more carefully. My commute takes me on some more open roads with less start and stops. I do find the skip stop to be very useful when approaching a stop.
After reading this thread, I definitely understand all the different points of view and all of the possible danger involved, but I pick my routes carefully and I am always looking ahead.
After reading this thread, I definitely understand all the different points of view and all of the possible danger involved, but I pick my routes carefully and I am always looking ahead.
08-17-09, 10:41 AM
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brakeless = people who are pathetic enough to try to show off by doing something they know is stupid. Simple...
08-17-09, 10:42 AM
#93
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you don't use brakes in the velodrome. i know it's obvious but i don't think anyone's mentioned actual track riding
08-17-09, 10:42 AM
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08-17-09, 10:45 AM
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I don't think it's showing off.
As someone else mentioned, it just forces one to be more aware.
There will always be people who ride a brake and some who do not, to each their own.
I am just testing my knees durability.
As someone else mentioned, it just forces one to be more aware.
There will always be people who ride a brake and some who do not, to each their own.
I am just testing my knees durability.
08-17-09, 10:47 AM
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Nor do you do "actual track riding" on the road or on urban streets, which is what this forum is ostensibly about. I suspect that relatively few people on this forum use their fixed gear bikes for "actual track riding" at a velodrome, and full-on track bikes are arguably less than ideal for road riding.
Last edited by JohnDThompson; 08-17-09 at 10:51 AM.
08-19-09, 09:44 AM
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Just curious, how many brakeless riders live in hilly areas? Not just a block or two, talking the kind where you would hit 88mph and go back in time if you tossed a chain.