W/Kg units, why this metric?
#76
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Dude, there is more incorrect stuff in this thread it might as well be a politician's platform. I think folks just make up crap and throw it out to see what kind of response they'll get. Yes, there are age races, all women, races, pro races, Athena, and Clydesdale races. Team time trial races, whatever you can think of. They have an annual mens and women's academy where the winners gets a Pro Team contract. They come and go based on popularity. If you want to sponsor some weird something there's an avenue for that.
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#77
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Dude, there is more incorrect stuff in this thread it might as well be a politician's platform. I think folks just make up crap and throw it out to see what kind of response they'll get. Yes, there are age races, all women, races, pro races, Athena, and Clydesdale races. Team time trial races, whatever you can think of. They have an annual mens and women's academy where the winners gets a Pro Team contract. They come and go based on popularity. If you want to sponsor some weird something there's an avenue for that.
#78
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How does the Zwift TTT compare with the real thing? Velo news did a comparison.
Take a dive into the numbers from two different TTTs — one on Zwift and one from the 2018 Tirreno-Adriatico — and see just how realistic Zwift is.
#79
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Not sure which leagues would catch this, but I've seen TTT races bring one "ringer" that almost pulls the entire time but takes enough breaks to not hit limits. Enabling the other riders to take bigger pulls.
I played "pack fodder" for a WRTL TTT group once. One dude pulled literally 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire 40min race at like 350w, while the rest of us were middling B's. We would rotate pulls when he had to drop off the back and help someone get back into the train.
If I saw that in my one and only ever WRTL race............it's bound to happen a lot more.
I played "pack fodder" for a WRTL TTT group once. One dude pulled literally 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire 40min race at like 350w, while the rest of us were middling B's. We would rotate pulls when he had to drop off the back and help someone get back into the train.
If I saw that in my one and only ever WRTL race............it's bound to happen a lot more.
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Not sure which leagues would catch this, but I've seen TTT races bring one "ringer" that almost pulls the entire time but takes enough breaks to not hit limits. Enabling the other riders to take bigger pulls.
I played "pack fodder" for a WRTL TTT group once. One dude pulled literally 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire 40min race at like 350w, while the rest of us were middling B's. We would rotate pulls when he had to drop off the back and help someone get back into the train.
If I saw that in my one and only ever WRTL race............it's bound to happen a lot more.
I played "pack fodder" for a WRTL TTT group once. One dude pulled literally 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire 40min race at like 350w, while the rest of us were middling B's. We would rotate pulls when he had to drop off the back and help someone get back into the train.
If I saw that in my one and only ever WRTL race............it's bound to happen a lot more.
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So where did they place? Thats an awful way to do it and if you do you surely will not place top tier of whichever Division you are in. If you pay close attention you' will see the fast teams have riders all similar in power. The technique you describe is pretty much bush league.
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Well, dude pulled at 350, and rest of us only pulled at like 300. We would have pulled at 300 regardless without that guy. So however many minutes that dude pulled at 350 was 50w more during that time than we would have pulled. So would assume we went faster than we should have if that guy could only pull at 300. Don't know.
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Here is an example pulled from last nights TTT results. You can pull up anyone data you like. This is showing TFC's team data and where the fourth riders time is the official team time. And yes all the riders weights are known along with FTP's history etc. You guys are missing out on a lot if you aren't aware of these races. This one last night had over 6,000 riders and more than 1,000 teams. Have yet to see any whining over category cheats or sandbaggers. When they do its dealt with.
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I moved this from General to Indoor cycling because I figured it might be easier to find in the future.
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Just when I was about to steer the conversation a bit by asking how many people have started to see their local outdoor club rides start using w/kg guidance for their rides, to supposedly better indicate the effort expected (starting to abandon the old A, B, C etc. ratings)?
#90
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Just when I was about to steer the conversation a bit by asking how many people have started to see their local outdoor club rides start using w/kg guidance for their rides, to supposedly better indicate the effort expected (starting to abandon the old A, B, C etc. ratings)?
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I have yet to notice a drafting effect in zwift like you do outdoors.
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Outdoors you can feel the resistance to the pedals reduced when drafting behind someone, but on Zwift you don't get that feeling. Instead, you just ride faster at your given wattage, and it's up to you to monitor that closely and figure out how much less effort you can put out to stay within the group.
#95
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I am a light rider at 65 kg. If you want to win Cat based races on Zwift without going over the prescribed W/kg limits you must be very heavy (over 90kg) and within 0.1 W/kg of the upper limit for 20 minute power. Big and heavy racers at the same W/kg have a huge advantage on downhills, a large advantage on the flats, and a small advantage on uphills. Since drafting effect is reduced in Zwift, the large rider advantages are even greater than in real life. Zwift have admitted that they have reduced the draft effect compared to real physics. A long time ago I went through the results of C Cat races and no racer under 70 kg had ever won a race and stayed under the 3.2 W/kg limit. This is so unrealistic compared to real life that I stopped racing in categorized races and only enter mass start events. Sure I get dropped by the faster racers but at least you end up in a group of similar ability to race against. If Zwift ever goes to results based race categories I will start racing again. The only fair racing is in the A category where heavy riders get crushed. All the heavy riders lobby to keep the existing system, light riders have moved on and will race outside where the results are not biased.
I have also pointed out to Zwift that someone at the lower end of the W/kg Cat system (say 2.6 W/kg) gets crushed and does not enjoy racing, while someone at 2.5 W/kg has a great time. People are increasing their in game weight to stay in lower cats because it is no fun to get dropped in the first 200m and ride alone in a race.
I have also pointed out to Zwift that someone at the lower end of the W/kg Cat system (say 2.6 W/kg) gets crushed and does not enjoy racing, while someone at 2.5 W/kg has a great time. People are increasing their in game weight to stay in lower cats because it is no fun to get dropped in the first 200m and ride alone in a race.
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I thing some things got messed up in your post. Short heavy riders might be better off downhill and on flats, but there is a penalty going uphill. I'm sure gaining just enough weight to go down a cat is worth it, but there is at least some price to be paid. Tall heavy riders are penalized everywhere.
#97
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I thing some things got messed up in your post. Short heavy riders might be better off downhill and on flats, but there is a penalty going uphill. I'm sure gaining just enough weight to go down a cat is worth it, but there is at least some price to be paid. Tall heavy riders are penalized everywhere.
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Isn't this just physics (not a Zwift thing)? I used a simple online calculator (bikecalculator.com) -- enter 50kg and 200 watts (4watts/kg) and 10% hill, vs. 100kg, 400 watts and 10% hill. The 400 watt scenario returns a faster speed. (approx. 12 vs 11 kph)
#99
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Yes, IRL that's true too so the physics in Zwift are directionally correct. The problems is to group racers into categories using this metric since heavy riders always have the advantage unless racing in A with no W/kg cap.
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