Originally Posted by globecanvas

OK. I can certainly appreciate that putting on a big race involves a lot of costs and if at some point you think the whole venture is a certain money loser, you need to stop throwing good money after bad and cancel, even though that will inevitably upset people. The last straw might be low preregistration, or some unexpected new cost like you are describing, or whatever.

Personally I'm more interested in your take on the generalities that were talked about earlier. CDR, who promotes a lot of races though nothing on the scale of Battenkill, said that bikereg sees most preregistration occurring on the last day, long after most of the costs are committed. That dynamic may be different for a big destination-type event, but if the overall trend is true -- that participants prefer to wait until the last minute to commit -- then the decision to hold an event will always be a leap of faith, because you don't have any guarantee of income until it's too late to cut your losses.

But the leap of faith works both ways. Racers are more hesitant to commit to preregistering for a race that has a history of getting canceled (Hunter, Longsjo), or where the format is still up in the air after preregistration is open (Catskills). It can create a sort of bad feedback loop where the racers and the promoter are each waiting for the other to commit first.

For context, I've done just about every race that you have promoted in the past few years, and I've almost always had a positive experience. I think that you provide a good product. Any big venture with lots of moving parts will provide many different experiences to the participants, so even when the experience has been less than positive, I understand why. But having said that, I am unlikely to preregister early for whatever the current iteration of the Hunter race is, or Catskills, because it makes sense to wait to see if the race is likely to happen, or what the format will be.


[edit to add: my baseline preference is always going to be whatever increases the likelihood of good races occurring within 100 miles of me. My happiness depends on promoters putting on races and having it be worth the trouble to them.]

Originally Posted by hubcyclist

Still considering it, despite a bruised ego from Sunday lol

Originally Posted by DieterDrake

Good analysis and thanks for coming to the events. 'Much appreciated!

I think most racers don't appreciate the risk that a club or promoter takes on with a road cycling event. The liability alone should make people pause. The financial risk is huge and - with sponsorship going to near-zero in cycling over the last 3 years - it's greater than ever and increasing every day. Throw in the trend to register based on weather or just because you are waiting for fitness and it's a wonder we have any races at all. If it's a road race with a single loop like Battenkill, then the commitment to police, EMS, staff, and volunteer groups are dedicated long in advance and are not people you can cancel very easily and hope to retain their services in the future... There is no modularity: it's either all or nothing many months in advance and the risk on costs are extremely high: venues, police, insurance, signage, USAC fees, etc. We've had to downsize considerably as a result and keep things much closer to home as well as adding gran fondos embedded into Battenkill and Catskills to attract a larger crowd. Cycling is changing. I imagine if USAC were honest about it, that they'd tell you annual license sales were sharply down.

Predicting when racers will register and why is impossible.


That said, we have dialed in both Greene Co (formerly Hunter, now on the TOC Stage 2 course, only a summer race in June) and Catskills (back to a stage race). We've also added a Crit in Glens Falls in July, a gravel grinder in August, and some non-competitive rides in the fall. It should be a good season.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by shovelhd

FYI, I am on the race committee for the Tour of the Hilltowns and I am also a USAC official. I get to see and participate in all of the behind the scenes work that races and racers demand. So I get where you are coming from. Deservedly or not, your races other than Battenkill have gotten a reputation of potentially being cancelled at the last minute due to low turnout. Every promoter has to take risks with the funds they have available. Some are wiling to hold out, some are not. Preregistration is what it is. You cannot influence it except to adopt the sliding scale tactics that CRCA is known for. So it has to be about risk. I think where you could improve is to refrain from posting races on Bikereg without the majority of the funding and details in place. I, for one, would rather not see a race on the calendar that has a high probability of cancellation. I'd rather plan around it. This is what many other promoters do. Let the LA coordinator hold the date for you and be done with it until it is really ready.

As for the Longsjo Foundation, I don't understand your perspective as the foundation has existed for many years. We don't have to drag them through the mud here, though.

I really appreciate your participation here.

Originally Posted by gsteinb

philly or ninigret.

just don't know what to do. following the weather and chance of rain and weighing the drive.

branchbrook looks early and like it might have wet roads still.

Originally Posted by globecanvas

Ninigret is 3+ hours from here, I'd think it would be the same for you? That's pretty far.

Originally Posted by gsteinb

2 1/2. I used to live in and then did business in providence so the drive is hardwired into my brain. But the wife is going to be home cleaning to get ready to get our house on the market so I'm going to need to reevaluate and choose closer to home option. I loathe 7:00 am starts, but if Branchbrook gets some play I'll do a couple races there, otherwise I'll head to the navy yard.