Koyote

You accuse people of "nit picking" when they point out the fallacies and factual errors in the very foundations of your arguments. e.g., if you're going to repeatedly insist that a term (like 'house brand') means the opposite of what it actually means, then you should expect people to correct you. You can call it nit picking, but you bring it on yourself by being (1) wrong, and (2) unable to admit that you are wrong even when confronted with facts that a ten-year old can comprehend.

Correcting fallacies and factual errors is not bullying; it's something we need to do more often, especially in the current environment in which many prominent people just make stuff up. In fact, I'd say that it takes more self-esteem and confidence (esp in real life - maybe not so much on the internet) to tell people, to their faces and with actual data and facts, that they are wrong about something.

I haven't seen much of what I would consider actual "bullying" behavior on bf...And what little I have seen has been promptly dealt with by the mods.

livedarklions

Billy Idol in a conversation about hardcore punnnk? Why that

Eric F 

There was a time when Billy Idol was considered punk...

livedarklions

But hardcore, never.

Koyote

Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Minutemen, The Damned...And about a thousand other bands that none of us remember because they traveled around in beat-up old vans, playing in tiny clubs, selling DIY cassettes and living on fast food.

Shoot, I'm not even sure that Husker Du qualifies as hard core...I mean, they actually played pretty melodies, at least sometimes.

Eric F 

Valid. That said, for lots of folks in 1977, Gen X would have been considered pretty hard.

Opinion differ on what "punk" is. Some object to that term.

Koyote

Nowadays, when I listed to '70s "punk" music, a lot of it just sounds like great pop music, at least to me. I mean, Elvis Costello was called a "punk rocker" back then, but his first two or three albums are full of great little pop songs.

The stuff called 'hardcore' is entirely different, though.

Eric F 

The Minutemen!!...So Cal legends!! I saw Mike Watt (Minutemen bass player) a couple of times in other groups. First was with fIREHOSE in about '91. Second time was Dos (Watt and Black Flag bass player, Kira Roessler) - 2 basses making strange and awesome music in a super tiny bar.

livedarklions

I was in Minneapolis in the late 70s, early 80s. That was definitely one of the first bands to be called hardcore. Their later stuff moved away from it, though.

livedarklions

Minutemen and Husker Du were labelmates on SST.

livedarklions

Elvis Costello was never properly a punk and my memory is people would use terms like "power pop" to describe his music. I know he detested the New Wave label, and there was some attempt to market him as that in the US.

Amazingly great songwriter and excellent producer, he's responsible for a lot of other artists' best studio work.

Koyote

Ditto. My biggest regret is that I never saw Prince play at First Avenue. Did see some other great shows there, though.

rsbob 

I was responding to ‘nit picking’ NOT factual errors. Factual errors should be challenged and corrected but in a coaching manner rather than in a derogatory manner.

Eric F 

Some kids are challenging to coach. Almost always, it's because the parents are a-holes.

- Former youth sports coach

downtube42

Two of us rolled into a convenience store in Concrete, WA around 11pm Saturday night, a half hour behind the C group that was ten minutes behind the B group who were maybe 30 minutes behind the A group who were maybe two hours behind the coureurs de vitesse. We were at around 300k into the 400k.

The attend said, "you guys are certainly more..."

I was waiting for it. Maybe crazy or insane or slow. Best case maybe he'd say hardcore but I don't expect that. Instead it was intrepid.

Intrepid? That's a first. I had to google it Sunday afternoon: fearless; adventurous (often used for rhetorical or humorous effect).

I like it. Sort of like hardcore but also the joke's on me because what I'm doing is s t u p i d.

indyfabz

I passed through Concrete twice while touring. Started from Bay View State Park. Cold and raining both times in late May. Howard Miller Steelhead Park down the road in Rockport, with its Adirondack shelters and piping hot showers, was like heaven.

indyfabz

Cycle Oregon XV was pretty hard core. Averaged 93 miles/day for 6 days, with a rest day after the 4th day of riding. Woke to ice on my tent the second morning, when we camped on a cattle ranch with dried cow pies all around. The third night we also camped on a ranch. The camping area looked like a drought stricken refugee camp. Nice to roll into after 117 hot miles. Some poor guy who did the shorter route that day died during the hot slog up to Mitchell. Made the next day’s century even harder. Can you say “crispy critter hot”? At least we had a rest day before climbing McKenzie Pass. It was really interesting to notice how people were getting testy with each other during the final two days. Fatigue had really set in.

DangerousDanR

The Ramones. The epitome of hard core. "Beat on the Brat!" I suspect that the young engineers on my team would not believe that the old guy listened to that kind of stuff when he was their age. I mean going from The Ramones to Andy Statman is a fairly big change.

My personal favorite from around that time was "Wall of Voodoo". "Mexican Radio" came out at a time I was living in So-Cal and designing algorithms for anti-aircraft systems. It just seemed like a good idea at the time.

I had to go listen to "Mexican Radio" on YouTube and the add sponsoring it was Taco Bell. So much for Google's intelligent search algorithms. Made me want to go out to a Taco Bell and order BBQed Iguana!!

veganbikes

80s hardcore would be in no order at all:
Agnostic Front
Bad Brains
Minor Threat
Black Flag
Dead Kennedys
Husker Dü
Minutemen
Descendents
Cro-Mags (who are actually relevant here because their singer John Josephs is also a triathlete.)
Gorilla Biscuits
D.R.I.
Government Issue
Gang Green
D.O.A.
SS Decontrol
7 Seconds
The Dicks

There is a lot of other bands and tons of great material out there.

The Clash is a fine band but not hardcore or close to it aside from being a punk band. I could care less for the Sex Pistols, the Ramones however I love but everyone loves the Ramones. I highly recommend checking out the band Death if you like early punk because they are as early as they come before punk was called punk. They were out of Detroit and it was I think 3 brothers in the early 70s and created one album but there is a great documentary about them.

VegasJen

It's all good. I definitely remember The Ramones and DKs from that era, but I was a lot more mainstream in my tastes. As of now, I tend to like a lot of recent/current music but I watched Napoleon Dynamite a couple weeks back and got back on an 80s kick with bands like Wang Chung, When in Rome, A-Ha, Bangles, REM, The Cars, etc. I'm OK admitting I like bubblegum pop.

veganbikes

I listen to just about everything so I do like that 80s stuff as you mentioned but I do like some good 80s hardcore.

downtube42

Cool. Bay View Stat Park was an Info Control Saturday, on the northbound leg up to Bellingham. That was before the drizzle started IIRC. Control question: What word appears below Bay View State Park on the park sign? I'll keep the answer to myself, as it might be re-used another day.

Kind of amazed I remember the question and answer, considering the subsequent lack of sleep.

I'd like to do some more bike touring, if I can ever get this rando stuff out of my system. What little I've done was fun. Intense, but fun.

veganbikes

Listen to Land Speed Record and tell me that is not hardcore (in the time it took me to write this the album was over...LOLOLOL), sure in their later albums it got more developed and interesting but really good stuff all over. They were certainly not the standard hardcore band but I appreciate that.

50PlusCycling

I’ll tell you hardcore, doing a 220km stage in southern Europe in the summer, waking up so sore the next day that you are almost unable to walk, and see blood in your urine when using the toilet. Then, trying to get your cycling shorts on when your legs are so sore that it hurts to bend your knees enough to pull them over your feet, getting back on your bike, riding a 120km stage, and finishing 2nd.

Today hardcore for me is a 40km loop around the town.

VegasJen

There is a very fine line between hardcore and madness. Just sayin'.