First Time Chain Waxer Calling on Chain Waxing Gurus
#101
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times
in
155 Posts
I've only ever used Molten Speed Wax. I'd seen the home brew formula posted above, but didn't want to bother tracking down and paying for shipping on all the proper ingredients. Besides, the MSW was less than 20 bucks and, more than a year later, half of it is still in the bag, untouched - I'm a-okay with that kind of value for convenience.
BTW, I found that CeramicSpeed has the Velo News chain lube tests on their website (click the "Download Full Test Report" button). In the original test plain paraffin wax was the lowest loss chain lubricant, in the second test Molten Speed Wax was the lowest loss.
Likes For RGMN:
#102
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
I haven't used Molten Speed Wax but it doesn't surprise me that it is lasting a long time. The PTFE and MoS2 cost me less than $20, and with the smallest containers I could find I now have a lifetime supply. I just need to grab a block of wax to make a new batch. I figure a 1 lb batch of wax mix cost me less than $3.50 and lasts for at least 2 years, or about 10,000 miles re-waxing the chain every 300-350 miles (30-35 applications.)
BTW, I found that CeramicSpeed has the Velo News chain lube tests on their website (click the "Download Full Test Report" button). In the original test plain paraffin wax was the lowest loss chain lubricant, in the second test Molten Speed Wax was the lowest loss.
BTW, I found that CeramicSpeed has the Velo News chain lube tests on their website (click the "Download Full Test Report" button). In the original test plain paraffin wax was the lowest loss chain lubricant, in the second test Molten Speed Wax was the lowest loss.
Sure, I looked at the math before purchasing, too - I think that I paid $18, including shipping - and I knew that I'd be paying 5x-10x more in the long run. I know that some people like to look at relative costs to inform purchases but, particularly with low ticket items, I don't think that it always makes sense. A product or service that's 10x more expensive doesn't necessarily have to be 10x better, not when you're ultimately talking about a product that'll last years and a price difference that'll only get you a couple of Happy Meals.
I'll probably put the ingredients on a shopping list and buy them at some point, but I'll keep recommending options like MSW to noobs. Many people already perceive waxing as a faff, so lowering the bar of entry is a good thing and it can keep people from talking themselves out of something that might otherwise be a fruitful endeavor.
#103
Method to My Madness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,855
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 1,557 Times
in
1,078 Posts
Stop by your local auto parts store and get a can of dipping carburetor cleaner. These usually are in a 1 gallon can and have a basket you can drop the chain in. Used one of these for years to clean bike parts, after the carb cleaner got tired and loaded up I used OMS in it. It was a nice, convenient way to solvent clean the chain (and other bike parts)
#104
Method to My Madness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,855
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 1,557 Times
in
1,078 Posts
Thanks for this tip, I will have to pay attention to this aspect next time as well.
#105
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 6,969
Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS, Trek CheckPoint SL7 AXS, Trek Emonda ALR AXS, Trek FX 5 Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked 1,850 Times
in
1,055 Posts
For me, it was really a matter of ease of entry - the question about getting the right ingredients ("pfffft - those PTFE granules are way too big!") and the delayed shipping times just made it easier for me to spend a little more and get on with it.
Sure, I looked at the math before purchasing, too - I think that I paid $18, including shipping - and I knew that I'd be paying 5x-10x more in the long run. I know that some people like to look at relative costs to inform purchases but, particularly with low ticket items, I don't think that it always makes sense. A product or service that's 10x more expensive doesn't necessarily have to be 10x better, not when you're ultimately talking about a product that'll last years and a price difference that'll only get you a couple of Happy Meals.
I'll probably put the ingredients on a shopping list and buy them at some point, but I'll keep recommending options like MSW to noobs. Many people already perceive waxing as a faff, so lowering the bar of entry is a good thing and it can keep people from talking themselves out of something that might otherwise be a fruitful endeavor.
Sure, I looked at the math before purchasing, too - I think that I paid $18, including shipping - and I knew that I'd be paying 5x-10x more in the long run. I know that some people like to look at relative costs to inform purchases but, particularly with low ticket items, I don't think that it always makes sense. A product or service that's 10x more expensive doesn't necessarily have to be 10x better, not when you're ultimately talking about a product that'll last years and a price difference that'll only get you a couple of Happy Meals.
I'll probably put the ingredients on a shopping list and buy them at some point, but I'll keep recommending options like MSW to noobs. Many people already perceive waxing as a faff, so lowering the bar of entry is a good thing and it can keep people from talking themselves out of something that might otherwise be a fruitful endeavor.
#106
Method to My Madness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,855
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 1,557 Times
in
1,078 Posts
Plus it is nice to have the PTFE, MoS2, and/or WS2 mixed in at the right ratio already. Imagine the clean up necessary if you sneeze at an inopportune moment when you are about to pour those ingredients into the wax.
#107
Senior Member
Is there ANY proof these additives make any appreciable difference or are they in there for marketing purposes? I betting the difference is either nil or very close.
Likes For Racing Dan:
#108
Method to My Madness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,855
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 1,557 Times
in
1,078 Posts
Depending on the mileage I get out of my first wax, I am debating doing the next wax with the Crock Pot on high (instead of low), which should speed things up and result in less wax left on the chain upon removal, thus hopefully eliminating the need to wipe the chain.
#111
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times
in
155 Posts
Depending on the mileage I get out of my first wax, I am debating doing the next wax with the Crock Pot on high (instead of low), which should speed things up and result in less wax left on the chain upon removal, thus hopefully eliminating the need to wipe the chain.
#112
Jedi Master
#113
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times
in
155 Posts
From my use I found chains waxed with paraffin only last about 3,000 miles. Chains waxed with the additives last over 4,000 miles. This was done with Campagnolo chains and was determined by when the chain got within .1mm of the 132.6mm Campagnolo specifies as the wear limit on the chain.
Likes For RGMN:
#114
Senior Member
From Velo New's chain lube test Molten Speed Wax took 0.14 watts less than plain paraffin wax. Squirt took 0.10 watts less.
From my use I found chains waxed with paraffin only last about 3,000 miles. Chains waxed with the additives last over 4,000 miles. This was done with Campagnolo chains and was determined by when the chain got within .1mm of the 132.6mm Campagnolo specifies as the wear limit on the chain.
From my use I found chains waxed with paraffin only last about 3,000 miles. Chains waxed with the additives last over 4,000 miles. This was done with Campagnolo chains and was determined by when the chain got within .1mm of the 132.6mm Campagnolo specifies as the wear limit on the chain.
How did you measure that and what does an new campy chain measure? A new Shimano and/or KMC chain measure ~123.25mm between 12 rollers, meaning 132.6mm is only ~0.25%, Including roller wear. Might as well just bin the chain right out the box ;-)
#115
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times
in
155 Posts
#116
Senior Member
132.2mm new, bin at 132.6?
If true, that would make you bin the chain at 0.3% wear, including roller wear. I bet you true elongation is negligible at that point. Bordering on pedantic perhaps?
Did you actually measure this or are you using some sort of gauge?
If true, that would make you bin the chain at 0.3% wear, including roller wear. I bet you true elongation is negligible at that point. Bordering on pedantic perhaps?
Did you actually measure this or are you using some sort of gauge?
#117
Newbie racer
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 3,406
Bikes: Propel, red is faster
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1575 Post(s)
Liked 1,569 Times
in
974 Posts
For the ultrasonic clean I help out the built in heater by boiling the water in a stove pot then pouring it into the cleaner. This sufficiently is hot enough with simple green to strip the chain. I then rinse the chain. Some do an alcohol based rinse there, but I won't if it isn't a "race chain prep". For day to day riding, I skip that.
Same for wiping the chain outside, do that.
Also, before it fully cools but is cool enough to handle, remount it and back pedal it a while as it cools and I've noticed I'm able to then just back pedal it on the first ride for a few seconds and am good to go.
Here's the bottom line with lots of drip lube versus a crock wax job: a crock wax job pretty much prevents you from accumulating the grime that folks get from just adding more drip. So many group rides or weeknight worlds see these near black cassettes and chains and just cringe. If you truly clean a chain how you should for drip lube or waxing, you're doing already 75% the time spend of waxing. The crock is the last little step.
Also for time savings, spend on a spare chain. Do two at the same time. Halves the time spend. Thus almost making the whole time spend argument a wash.
Same for wiping the chain outside, do that.
Also, before it fully cools but is cool enough to handle, remount it and back pedal it a while as it cools and I've noticed I'm able to then just back pedal it on the first ride for a few seconds and am good to go.
Here's the bottom line with lots of drip lube versus a crock wax job: a crock wax job pretty much prevents you from accumulating the grime that folks get from just adding more drip. So many group rides or weeknight worlds see these near black cassettes and chains and just cringe. If you truly clean a chain how you should for drip lube or waxing, you're doing already 75% the time spend of waxing. The crock is the last little step.
Also for time savings, spend on a spare chain. Do two at the same time. Halves the time spend. Thus almost making the whole time spend argument a wash.
#118
Method to My Madness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,855
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 1,557 Times
in
1,078 Posts
From what I have seen online, a Crock Pot (the specific brand) is about 220 *F on low and 300 *F on high; the latter is definitely not needed to melt the wax but I am curious whether the increased temperature will decrease viscosity to a sufficient extent that it eliminates the need to wipe chain upon removal from the Crock Pot.
#119
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 571
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 243 Post(s)
Liked 234 Times
in
155 Posts
#120
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520
Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo
Mentioned: 354 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20810 Post(s)
Liked 9,456 Times
in
4,672 Posts
From what I have seen online, a Crock Pot (the specific brand) is about 220 *F on low and 300 *F on high; the latter is definitely not needed to melt the wax but I am curious whether the increased temperature will decrease viscosity to a sufficient extent that it eliminates the need to wipe chain upon removal from the Crock Pot.
#121
Jedi Master
From what I have seen online, a Crock Pot (the specific brand) is about 220 *F on low and 300 *F on high; the latter is definitely not needed to melt the wax but I am curious whether the increased temperature will decrease viscosity to a sufficient extent that it eliminates the need to wipe chain upon removal from the Crock Pot.
#122
Method to My Madness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,855
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 1,557 Times
in
1,078 Posts
MSW specifically advises against going above 220° or so. Frankly, going up to the 300° region, that you're considering, would make me more concerned about wax staying liquid too long and working out of the rollers while hanging (that and, as I've mentioned multiple times, I've never needed to wipe a chain after removal, anyway).
Try it out if you're curious. The wax will steam and smell like burning wax, and it's not necessary for it to get that hot. Sounds like not everyone wipes the wax off anyway. I just do it to minimize the flaking. I've never had a problem shifting with a waxed chain even if I don't wipe it off.
#123
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 6,969
Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS, Trek CheckPoint SL7 AXS, Trek Emonda ALR AXS, Trek FX 5 Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked 1,850 Times
in
1,055 Posts
I used my 3 qt Instant pot tonight and cooked up some wax and ptfe, waxed 2 chains, let them cool, broke the wax link stiffness on one, installed on the bike, spun around the hood for a couple of laps...easy peasy, mac and cheesy. No issues shifting at all. took about 90 mins tops. the second chain was a new one I picked up a couple of years ago, so I figured I would just rotate the chains as I go and will always have one ready to roll as it were. I plan to do my this for my wife's bike as well.
__________________
Brian | 2023 Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS | 2023 Trek CheckPoint SL 7 AXS | 2016 Trek Emonda ALR | 2022 Trek FX Sport 5
Brian | 2023 Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS | 2023 Trek CheckPoint SL 7 AXS | 2016 Trek Emonda ALR | 2022 Trek FX Sport 5
Last edited by jaxgtr; 07-29-21 at 12:18 AM.
#124
Method to My Madness
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 3,855
Bikes: Trek FX 2, Cannondale Synapse x2, Cannondale CAAD4, Santa Cruz Stigmata 3
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2059 Post(s)
Liked 1,557 Times
in
1,078 Posts
I used my 3 qt Instant pot tonight and cooked up some wax and ptfe, waxed 2 chains, let them cool, broke the wax link stiffness on one, installed on the bike, spun around the hood for a couple of laps...easy peasy, mac and cheesy. No issues shifting at all. took about 90 mins tops. the second chain was a new one I picked up a couple of years ago, so I figured I would just rotate the chains as I go and will always have one ready to roll as it were. I plan to do my this for my wife's bike as well.
#125
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,702
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1175 Post(s)
Liked 454 Times
in
323 Posts
Depending on the mileage I get out of my first wax, I am debating doing the next wax with the Crock Pot on high (instead of low), which should speed things up and result in less wax left on the chain upon removal, thus hopefully eliminating the need to wipe the chain.
I also have experienced smelly, brown colored wax when I accidentally left the crock pot on high. To be fair, this is when I turned on the crock pot ahead of time & forgot about it. For this reason, I have poured out the burnt wax and started fresh with new gulf wax.
Likes For masi61: