ricebowl

yet that doesn't seem to be true...

GP

Picture of my '99 All-Rounder. It's pretty close to an Atlantis.

My forum name doesn't stand for Grant Peterson.

workjeremy5

Sure, bikemig, I concede I was being a bit facetious there towards the end. I like Riv's, obviously, but I also like how companies such as Surly have created a reasonably priced mid-range option for people who want a capable bike but who don't care about paint quality or some nuanced handlebar designed in house and made exclusively by Nitto for GP (which is like most of the bars offered by Riv).

and I too am broke by the price of admission at Riv. 4K bucks for a complete with Nitto racks and such is not within my means. I ride an MB-1, but even that with high end components is comparatively cheap to a new Riv with run of the mill deore.

NormanF

Most people are not aware of it but early lugged Trek Multitracks were built on the Trek 520 touring geometry! The hybrid geometry came later with the TIG welded models. These are poor man's Rivendells and can be had quite cheap.

AAZ

I have an Atlantis. It is a very comfortable bike that handles well. It is also a tank that can haul all of your gear and feel very stable doing it. I’ve tried other very fine touring cycles and this is the one I chose.
I try not to get caught up in the religious arguments, and have other bikes I enjoy that are not Rivendell. But the Atlantis is a terrific ride and I would recommend it to most anyone.

corwin1968

Personally, I think the design idea of the Atlantis is the perfect all-purpose bike. Relatively stout tubing, 26" wheels, stable handling but not extremely long in the wheelbase. I would love to ride one just to see what all the fuss is about.

I'm a man of limited disposable income so I must turn to vintage bikes. I don't think a clone of the Atlantis exists in the modern market (LHT is close but chainstays are longer). As an experiment in 26" wheeled bikes, I picked up a 1983 Takara Highlander MTB and a 1995 Trek 820. The Takara has the same basic geometry as the first stumpjumpers and while it was fun at first, the steering is a handful and it's not something I would want to spend a lot of time on. The 820, on the other hand, rides very well, being stable yet still relatively agile. The 820 was designed more with comfort in mind rather than performance, which is how the 830 and up models were designed (ie, more aggressive geometry). The only real drawback to the 820 is that it has hi-ten stays. Maintubes and fork are cro-moly.

The 820 is pretty similar to the Atlantis. The major difference is bottom bracket height. GP includes a very low BB as one of his preferences and the Atlantis has this but I don't find that BB height makes a whole lot of difference in how bikes ride. Even GP states that it's more an issue with 700c wheels than it is with 26" wheels. The 820 has 6mm more trail than the Atlantis but I've always ridden high trail bikes so this isn't a problem for me. Finally, the 820's chainstays are 4mm shorter than the Atlantis. That's completely negligible.

Overall, I think the 820 is a great bike and this summer I plan to rebuild it with a mix of already owned components plus some new V-brakes (I hate traditional cantis). I don't have any illusions that it rides as well as an Atlantis, given the quality of the tubesets and the QC that went into the Atlantis but for $75, the value can't be beat.

ashemon

The lugged Multitracks are still a different geometry. Most of the specs are similar but the bottom bracket height is different by a half-inch. The later TIG-welded models also are very similar other than the bottom bracket height and chainstay which is shorter by an inch or so (wheelbase is the same as the 520, however).

With most people privy to this, the prices have been slowly rising. Some sell for 3-400 dollars on eBay (maybe also because of the cyclocross market).

2000Para853red

Like your frame pump Irwin7638 !!!

Saddle Up

[QUOTE=New Yorker;16702699] The "mystique" is not with Grant Petersen and Rivendell; it's with the overwhelming preponderance of bikes and gear designed for competition.

^Yes exactly, and funnily enough the bikes that get the most respect on the C&V forum seem to bikes that were "designed for competition".

DIMcyclist

Actually, the 820's tubing varied from year to year...

As examples, while outwardly the same bikes (aside from size) my '93 had a full Tange DB MTB tubset (and was a very nice ride), however my current 820, a '91, is "Trek 4130" plain gauge (and a maybe bit less responsive for that), but again- fully chromo.

Further, while both were made in Taiwan, my '93 820 was English/ ISO and my '91 is (strangely enough) straight-up JIS.

AvenirFolder

Simple answer to the original question: Vintage. Go back to page one and have a look at Sixty-fiver's ride, a vintage 1987 Kuwahara Cascade that he picked up for all of 25 bucks. Last I read, he'd clocked up 40,000+ kms on it. I own an 85 Miyata Terra Runner (spruced up for touring the GDMBR), 87 Kuwahara Shasta ($50) and an 86 Kuwahara Cascade ($100). Would I spend $4000 on a bike for tooling around town or touring? Nope. Not when I can get a very suitable stand-in for a fraction of that. Loaded down, my Miyata -- which can take 2.25" Marathon Extremes -- does the job and then some. And my bikes all come with the sought-after beausage as well.

The nice thing with vintage bikes is that you can pick up a second, back-up bike/frame-fork for a song as well -- which might come in handy if your first build suffers any unexpected, accident-caused damage etc. I had my wheels built by SJS Cycles in the UK and shipped over. Why? Because SJS sells the Andra 30 touring rims which are far stronger than anything else on the market including the rim selection from Rivendell. The CSS Andras are virtually bombproof: https://cyclingabout.com/review-rigida-andra-30-rim/ + https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/revie...lies=1#replies . I like the Andras because I use cantilever brakes which are hard on rim surfaces (I went through a Velocity Aeroheat rear in little over 2000kms this summer.) Since the early to late 80s mtn bikes have a 130mm rear dropout width -- not the later 135mmm -- simply go with an Ultegra roadie hub or equivalent front and rear. The latest Ultegra is the 11-speed 6800 which works with an 8-speed cassette (with the provided spacer). Add a shiny new 46-36-24 Sugino crankset from Riv -- and a suitably sized bottom bracket like the UN55 --and you have yourself a tough tourer and all-rounder.

BTW Grant Petersen often plugs the virtues of old vintage bikes for touring and tooting around. You need go no further than the Rivendell Reader to verify that. As far as his ego goes, I don't know the man but will point to the early issues of the Riv Reader where he bares his soul and faltering ego to the masses. Observation: he holds the same insecurities and fears as the next guy and is simply trying to make a living at what he knows best. I have nothing but admiration for a small businessman who keeps plugging away in a new venture with an uncertain future ahead of him.

However, I still like buying inexpensive vintage bikes. For the same reason, I drive a sturdy 25 year-old vehicle and would never consider buying a new BMW, Cadillac or anything else along those lines even though I can afford them. To me that's wasting money.

noglider 

Very nicely written, @AvenirFolder. I just read Grant's book Just Ride, and I don't find him to be egotistical, just insightful and witty.

AvenirFolder

I've got my name down at the library for a hold on his new book Eat Bacon, Don't Jog. It should be just as insightful and witty.

For people who can't ride a bike without an expensive head badge, the vintage bikes have that covered as well: https://www.flickr.com/photos/299165...7630245137796/ . I believe Riv sells just the Nitto bullmoose bars for more than what you can pick up an entire old bike for these days. That used Kuwahara Cascade likely sold for less than $150 and it's not unheard of to pick up an almost mint mid-80s Kuwahara or Miyata hereabouts for $75 (or less!). You have to be quick on the draw though. Keep in mind that brand new examples at the top end of those bike lines were selling for $750 to $1000 or more back in their heyday 30 years ago. They were no cheapies and also featured Nitto bars and stems, lugged frames and crowns etc etc. Bargains! When viewing them in winter light or poor conditions, it really helps to bring a small bright flashlight along before sealing the deal. I usually get the seller to yank the seatpost out and check the inside of the tube for rust spots. It's normal to see some dots of rust but you don't want something that's obviously bleeding red. Surprisingly, the last bike I picked up looked almost brand new inside with an unblemished silver glow. Unbelievable! (First job: applying rustproofing inside the frame using Boeshield T9 or equivalent.) What happens if you find something that you don't like about the bike after buying it? Sell it (for more than you paid for it)! You can do that when you only drop a hundred or so on a decent bike.

Vintage plug from Riv: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzeh...TIx/edit?pli=1 (page 20)
More plugs/info: https://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/pdf/RR41_web.pdf (page 13 for something to check for + page 18 for endorsement for old steel bikes).

If you have a thing for vintage steel bikes, the Rivendell Reader is required reading. Do I buy stuff from Grant's retail pickings? Yup! But not the bike.

bikemig 

I don't know of any topic that gets as much attention from the C&V crowd as a thread on Rivendells or on Grant Peterson. Here's to many more threads like this in 2015!

AvenirFolder

If you like steel bike revivals, you'll love these guys: 100% Recycled Touring Bicycles . Guess what the aging vehicle I drive is. Hint: it's a VW.

AvenirFolder

BTW I just discovered that Rich Ligato and wife Amanda are forum members. Here's more on their saving-spending strategies for long trips (as seen on the TV commercial!): https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/94...l#post16733586 . Old vintage steel bikes rule -- but I'm not sure that's what they're currently riding on.

jr59

So, does Rivendell make good bikes?

bikemig 

I agree even if I have no idea what a "sought after beausage" is, .

I'm really enjoying my '88 specialized stump comp that I converted to drops. The price was right ($125 on CL); more importantly, the bike is just rock solid. I commute on it and it is my best bike for riding in crummy weather since it has fat tires, fenders, and platform pedals (I wear boots in the winter). I'm rolling on 26 x 1.9 continental winter contact tires; they're really good for the mixed snow/ice/pavement that we typically see in a IA winter (studded tires are better though when the snow and ice get heavy).

It will also make a first rate touring bike with its 3 x 8 gearing. Not the lightest bike out there but it's not a theft magnet either and it's a quality double butted tubing set bike:

fender1

Yup.

fietsbob

Lugged Frame Builds have Given way to Tig welded Construction, If you Love the way a Lugged frame Looks .. get one..

Tig as done by the Maxway company in Taiwan is sold under Many Brand names By the Importers that Hire their Contract Manufacturing abilities.

irwin7638

This thread is nine months old! Are we delivering a new years... something?
I love my Hunqapillar!

Marc

AvenirFolder

Yup...good EXPENSIVE bikes. I prefer good inexpensive bikes.

AvenirFolder

Nice looking ride. It epitomizes everything great about inexpensive quality vintage bikes. Beausage? https://twitter.com/rivbikes/status/242700530189750272 . There's a lengthier essay on that term in one of the Rivendell Readers.

jr59

That bike is the only one that remotely does it for me.
It's big, and heavy and makes a huge statement. Double TT and all.

Kobe 

A double top tube A Homer Hilsen works for me. Someday when I get tired of having too many bikes I will trade them all in for one.