plumberroy

Here is what I know at 14 I could drive a stick shift , do most repairs that a bicycle might need . change brakes or u-joint on a dodge powerwagon, cook most things I wanted to eat skin a deer, clean a fish build a fire, Harness and drive a team of horses or mules and many other thing most 20 something can't do today I could do these things because of 2 things both the result of my parents they taught me to want to be as self sufficient as possible . And they always took time to show me how they did things and why you did them that way .

This in no way makes me feel better about myself . It makes me sad for what the future holds for many . All societies eventually collapse, Way to many people depend on their smart phone to connect them to the knowledge base and help when that goes away they have a problem .

I read many forums . Some of the prepper forums just kill me, people who think the end of world as we know it is. is just around the corner and they are actively preparing for grid collapse no gas, no electric, no resupply ask which is the best computer /tablet to store their P.D.F. survival books on

There have always been young people who strive for knowledge and to be able to do thing themselves Just as there has always been people that wanted things handed to them with out effort on their part . It just seems from where I live at least , that those from earlier generations the "I'll do it myself" group heavily out numbered the "hand it to me" group today the "hand it to me" is beginning to overtake "do it myself" group
I don't see that as a good thing

Rcrxjlb

My question is how many people would still repair things themselves if they became millionaires ...?...$

plumberroy

[QUOTE]Personally I feel every person over the age of 15 should know the basic tenets of physics, chemisty, biology, mathematics, literature, history, plumbing, carpentry, bicycle repair, a couple of foreign languages, etc.[/QUOTE]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This we agree on
By this I mean able to walk down stairs and mentally capable and turning a nut 1/4 turn
Because there are a still a few lady's left from the time when men fixed things with tools women fixed thing with needle and thread My daughter just had her 1st 29th birthday and can do basic repairs (and can drive a stick)
If you choose to be ignorant and expect me to fix something basic like a packing nut on a water valve it is going to cost you. I rarely charge an older tradesman because I know they would do it if they could and most belief systems teach what you do comes back to you . I will always answer questions or teach those that want to learn with in reason I'm not going to show a home owner how to pour a lead and oakum joint . A young person who truly wants to be a plumber I have all the tool needed to teach them
By the way I am a little above average plumbing I have worked on stuff that the electric conductors had water running through them and at my current job do med gas pumps and equipment
Roy

plumberroy

I would ! I would grow raise or hunt 95% of my own food if I was rich I would probably live on less than I do now once I was past buying property and tools/toys

habilis

Interesting question. Historians tell us that Louis XVI enjoyed woodworking as a hobby. This activity may have taken his attention away from state affairs. The French Revolution seems to have taken him by surprise. So it appears that even the rich and powerful crave handicrafts. In NYC, where it's difficult for anyone other than tradespeople to find uses for their hands, mechanical hobbyists rent expensive garage space where they can work on cars, motorcycles, etc.

habilis

I agree with your main argument: that mechanical ability can be learned by anyone, regardless of age or gender. Our culture steers girls and affluent people away from manual work.

But is plumbing simple? Sure, it's just fluids passing through pipes, but no one who has done extensive plumbing work would call it simple. It's certainly not physically easy (pipes in the real world are hidden behind stuff), and the national plumbing code is a pretty fat book. As with most skills, any person of reasonable intelligence can learn it, but only through long experience can they become proficient. I'm not saying this is true in your case, but it's annoying when people are dismissive of manual work that they haven't actually tried to do. As a house-flipper, I've installed a few bathrooms and kitchens. (Yes, the inspectors passed them.)

cyccommute 

What took so long? I had my first lesson in driving a manual transmission when I was 8. And it was a 1960 Chevy Apache 10 with one of the stiffest clutches I've every had to drive. Even at 16, the stupid thing was difficult to shift.

Some people 20 years old can do all those things and some people 60 years old can't do many of those things. But that's my point. Whether or not a person can perform certain tasks isn't dependent on their generation.

Some of your above items are, frankly, useless for day to day living. Harnessing and driving a horse team isn't something that 1 person in 100,000 will know how to do nor should they.

Few societies collapse overnight, despite what popular entertainment will have you believe. Declines are slow and long. Despite what the "preppers" might think, I doubt that the world is going to end tomorrow. People have been predicting the (sudden) end of the world for about as long as there have been people and the only thing they've demonstrated is how wrong they are.

There you go again. It's not generational. My father's generation said the same thing about my generation and his father's generation said the same thing about his generation and his father's generation...well you get the drift. I work with a whole bunch of people who are smart, capable and have a "can do" attitude about what they do. I don't see any of them having a "hand it to me" attitude. Each one of them worked incredibly hard and for many years to amass the knowledge to do their job. None of them was "handed" anything.

So did you know which nut to give a 1/4 turn when you were born? Someone taught you what nut to turn and how much to turn it. Or you turned the wrong nut and caused more damage while learning what nut to not turn. Just because we have an XY chromosome doesn't mean we were born with all the knowledge of the world. You had to learn how to do what you do. Don't assume that everyone else knows what you know or should know what you know. Someone taught you and put knowledge in your head. Teach someone else and put that knowledge in their head.

You need a lesson in the strength of women. My mother knew how to butcher a hog or a cow, how to render those animal to make soap, how to plow a field, fix a car, thread a pipe, kill a rattlesnake, pluck a chicken, etc. My daughter knows how to fix her bike, wire a light, install a toilet and, yes, drive a stick. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she needs a man to fix everything all the time. I also know a bunch of very strong women at my work who can solve problems just as well as I can. This is the same issue as stereotyping generations. It's demeaning.

cyccommute 

The concept is simple...just like bicycles...but the details are complex. However, just like a bike, it's not that hard to learn the details.

But you are missing the point. ryanbent seems to think that "them youngens" are stupid and lazy because they don't know "nothin'". Regardless of age, some people know how to do certain things and some people know how to do other things. Just because you or I happen to know how to do something doesn't mean that everyone should know how to do it.

Needles

I don't know... I learned what I know about emergency auto repair laying in the mud on the roadside with a flashlight and a wrench in the middle of the night. I learned what I know about woodworking for free in my dad's cabinet shop after school. I learned what I know about growing things, figuring out problems, rough carpentry, farm animals, hard work, and hunting and fishing because I lived with my grandparents on a sharecropped cotton farm until I was 13. I don't recommend that to anybody. What it taught me, more than anything, was to get an education, and, as far as possible, work with your mind instead of your back. Also, your mind is like your muscles--- using things like computers and smart phones for everything is like having someone else lift weights for you at the gym. Help is good, when you NEED it, but you have to have enough self discipline to not turn into a slug. This applies to young people and older people alike.

habilis

As I'm sure you know, farm work is a great way to become versatile and self-sufficient - if it doesn't kill you first. People gravitate toward cities so they won't have to do absolutely everything for themselves. They prefer to specialize, buy what they need, and sometimes live a very narrow life.

But exposure to a wide range of physical and mental challenges, as are found on a farm, would benefit everyone. I was lucky enough to spend a summer on a farm when I was 14. I didn't have to stick it out for more than a few months, and I didn't have to make a living at it, but it introduced me to carpentry, masonry, wiring, plumbing, etc. Looking back on it, it was a life-changer.

So, why aren't there more programs for introducing the young to such experiences? Summer camps like the "Fresh Air Fund" are great, but they would be better if they involved learning some productive skills. In wartime, we draft young people and teach them the art of war. We could use the same mechanism for teaching productive skills. There's the Peace Corps and, Job Corps, but those are voluntary. They attract only the already-motivated.

Why not a compulsory summer program for every young person on government funded construction/rehabilitation projects at the federal, state, or even local level? We waste tax dollars on far worse things.

Sounds like it's too unmanageable and expensive, but we did it in the 1930's. Then, we weren't spending billions on the "war on drugs." Maybe that war wouldn't exist if young people were trained and productively engaged in work.

dedhed

I know my now 16 YO daughter thinks the annual shower drain snaking is a pretty disgusting job when we do it. Then I tell her she can always shave her head or pay the plumber out of her money to do it.

southpawboston

There will always be a need for mechanics, builders, plumbers and electricians and other labor trades, and there will always be people to fill those needs. But there is a new economy, too, that didn't exist when you (or I) were young. Young adults today are getting by just fine in the real world because they're thumbin' through their smart phones, creating websites, apps and other "tools" (yes a computer script is a tool) that do things and generate money. It's a different economy with a different skillset than when you were young. This is the new real world.

Do you think that every college kid 40-50 years ago knew how to put a chain back on a bike?

davidad

When I grow up I want to be 20 and stupid, cause 72 and stupid sucks.

MadKaw

There are also young guys out there who could take your bike apart, put it back together completely serviced, lubed and tuned while you're still waiting for your coffee to cool enough to drink. Ignorance is no respecter of generational issues. I know a guy in his late fifties that has to call tech support to change a light bulb.

Distinguished

To answer your question: Yes, some of us. See here: Early Retirement Extreme: ? a combination of simple living, anticonsumerism, DIY ethics, self-reliance, and applied capitalism

It's a group of mostly early 20 and 30 year olds becoming financially independent by learning skills of all kinds, fixing bicycles being one of them. I'm 21 and I've taken apart my two bikes to the frame and put them all back together again. It was an excellent learning experience.

habilis

Interesting. Now, how would you suggest bringing this to the masses - or at least to a large part of the younger population?

There have been many experiments in communal living and communal working in this country and elsewhere (the Shakers, for example). They were strictly voluntary, often religious-based, and they all eventually fizzled out. The huge national experiments - the Soviet Union and China - equated to mass enslavement under a police state, and they also failed; no one is embracing capitalism more warmly than those two countries, though they still have the policing part. (I understand that the program you describe is based on capitalism, but it still is a communal arrangement - nothing at all wrong with that.)

What's needed is something voluntary but made so attractive that the masses will flock to it, and enrollment will need to be controlled by lottery. Even if this were just one or two summer sessions in each person's life, it would change society for the better and put lots of shrinks and drug dealers out of business.

Based on historical precedent, a plan like this would be doable if government (maybe in concert with private foundations and businesses) would sponsor it. And - just to keep this thread on track - I especially like the bicycle mechanics part.

UnCruel 

Yeah, that same guy would roll his eyes at any problems you might have with your smartphone or your email. I suspect you take for granted how immersed you were in mechanical thinking when you were young, and how much guidance you received from an adult to develop that thinking. It's not that young people don't know anything, it's that they know different things.

plumberroy

cyccommute
Seems to me you are arguing for the sake of arguing . Here is what I will tell you I don't generalize I make statements on my experience. I pay attention to people. Were I work now has over 4000 employees at our site and I believe around 10000 total employees across the organization Every type of person, from world class surgeons and research Doctors to people wiping tables and cleaning toilets . I have worked with people in the process of building or repairing stuff for 30 years this is what I draw from . It wasn't hard in the late 80's early 90's to find a young person that was excited to learn a trade, today it is . At work we are having a hard time finding an HVAC tech. When you consider pay, benfits and pace it is one of the best to work in our area in that trade
By the way Harnessing and driving horses doesn't have a whole lot of use today but it impresses the young Amish guys that have never seen an "English" that can do it
Roy

plumberroy

Habilis
the shakers lasted a long time for what they were . They believed in celibacy, it is very hard to maintain a group when you don't have kids and raise them in your beliefs . Go to work , go to to church( a thou shalt not church at that) and not have sex............. ever You ready to join
Roy

habilis

Ready to join? No, not even at my age! You're right, that was a tough gig, and they doomed themselves by not reproducing. It's interesting, though, how these movements keep popping up in one form or another, seeking a simple life of hard work and self-reliance. Here is Distinguished describing something similar in the 21st century. Must be something to it.

Soody

My Dad is 60 & he doesn't know ****. He can't do -any- maintenance on a car or a bicycle. He'll take a flat tire to the shop. He has 1 shelf of worthless garbage tools that strip anything they touch. He uses his new iphone constantly.

Today a kid like me can have a deprived childhood and still learn to wrench. There's surrogate fathers aplenty online. Honestly in 2015 a Laptop makes a sound childhood pretty redundant.

habilis

Interesting turnabout, since you could show your Dad a thing or two. To be fair to him, on-line instruction wasn't available when he was young. Today, we have that well of information, but not everyone wants to drink from it.

Bike Gremlin

I used to live in a rather normal, civilized country and got to live that dream. City without electricity, heating, lack of food. Knowing how to fix things on your own and having some stocks of flour, canned food etc did come in handy. You never know.

habilis

My family had a similar experience. At the end of WWII, they landed in a displaced persons camp in Austria, where they cooked and heated with wood in an open fireplace, and carried water from a well. There was no electricity and, of course no TV. Somewhere in her attic, my sister has the chess set my father carved out of wood from an apple tree. He also carved a doll for her out of the same wood. Today, this is a recreational experience called "camping."

revcp 

Wow. This is quite the "Hey, you kids, get off my lawn!" thread. Every generation thinks the generation that succeeds it is chock full of whiney losers. People love to harken back to the good old days and lament that the present world is going to hell in a handbasket.