cplager

This whole thing is getting a little too heated.

I would be upset if my new bike had rust on it, too. I would be upset if when the bikes were returned to me, they were damaged because of faulty packaging. I would be upset if I were dealing with the tone that's present in this thread.

Either the this thread will calm down, or it will be locked soon. Hopefully the former...

Cheers,
Charles

p.s. If I were Paul, I'd start taking pictures of the bikes as they go out, just to keep records of these things.

kyte

I was appalled to see the owner of Origami posted my name here. That's low. I never expected it. I guess turns out my expectation could be lower! WOW........

Thank you guys for pushing him to remove it.

I stand behind my opinions. I'm more than happy to supply my name if every poster here reveal their names. But that's my decision to make and it's my privacy.

kyte

I wish he did, then he will have to examine the bikes before shipping. And none of this will happen.

Trust me, during the email communication, he never even hinted he examined the bikes before shipping. Also, did I mention the bike come with many small parts damaged during shipping? Do you want me to post pictures of those too? I even said I didn't blame the shipping on him. And I packed the bikes way better than the original package.

I wish this post won't be locked, I'd like to see more people's thoughts on this.

tds101 

Funny, but Pinigis gave a "full" refund. He reimbursed the full cost - this would include S&H!!! Then he offered a discount on another bike,...all the things some of you mentioned. Sounds like great customer service IMO. Mentioning the op's real name, not kool & totally unprofessional. I guess frustration can make you do foolish things,...

The op tho, as I feel, is dragging the company through the mud. How many dissatisfied customers does Origami have? Not many,...but one is trying to bring the company down. Amazing,...

champignon

I would submit that no one here has any idea how many satisfied or dissatisfied customers this company has, nor how many bikes have been sold, so as to come up with a percentage, any meaningful percentage of satisfied vs. dissatisfied customers. This is unknowable, as the facts are "not in evidence."

The fact that a given purchaser never posts anything online, no less in this forum, says more about people's preference to avoid conflict than anything else.

Again, you cannot substantiate what you have posted here, and I certainly would not claim to have a clue one way or the other.

This is what happens when merchants become chummy with forum participants. All objectivity goes out the window. Who knows, who can know, one way or the other?

smallwheeler

you are completely wrong and obviously, you didnt read:

from OP:

"I was expecting full refund from a "reputable" company like Origami. Turns out, a full refund mean refund only for bikes, not the shipping. So for doing nothing wrong than trusting a "reputable" company, I end up paying $62 to look at two rusting bikes and return them. "

from origami:

"We did refund the full cost of the bikes and even went above and beyond and paid the return shipping."

this left the buyer holding the bag for the initial shipping. the seller did not give a "full refund".

also, what you may have arrived too late to read and has since, thankfully, been edited out, the seller went on to address the buyer by full name, make some erroneous remarks regarding the OP's comments, and then snidely offered, "I hope you feel vindicated after venting."

kamtsa

The rust in the second picture looks terrible for a new product. I understand the frustration the OP, these are not supposed to be very high quality bikes but they are supposed to look new.

It's puzzling that the OP got two out of two rusty bikes while the rest of the inventory is rust free.

champignon

How do you know that "the rest of the inventory is rust free?" How can you know that there really is more "inventory?"

Enthusiast forums are frequently used by commercial interests as a form of free, or almost free, advertising. This can be very subtle or not subtle at all, as in this particular case. As the businessman in question is learning, however, this can be a double edged sword, and the same "free" media can easily inflict as much damage on one's reputation, often very quickly, as much as months of carefully staged posts can be useful or appear to be so.

It is very much akin to online restaurant and hotel reviews. Restaurants especially will frequently have huge numbers of false customer reviews posted on review sites, in an attempt to appear to be much better than they really are. There are services out there that will do this for your business, for a fee.

I would be very cautious in taking at face value anything posted by someone who stands to benefit commercially from posting on an enthusiast public forum. There are exceptions, in my mind Thor being a great example to follow. Thor goes out of his way to be helpful, whether you bought your equipment from him or another vendor, and frequently shares his knowledge on threads that have no real relationship to anything he is selling. But Thor is very much the exception (Hank from OK being another such exception), and I would approach most others promoting their merchandise in online forums with a great deal of caution.

bargainguy

I've been involved in a few business ventures in my day. What I've learned is that grace and humility are sometimes in short supply in the business world, where things can get a little heated.

Those folks I found in the business world who had grace, humility, an even keel - those were the folks I emulated and sought out. Learned a lot from them, and carry those lessons with me every day.

Business people can start taking things very personally when they feel their livelihood is backed up against a wall. I'm not making excuses, these are just observations. I have most certainly felt what the businessperson here is up against. But that's why the response to the mistake is so important. It establishes the tone for the rest of the transaction, and ultimately the outcome.

tds101 

I guess maybe I did miss a few posts that were edited or changed,...I apologize for my misunderstanding. I guess Origami bikes, and Pinigis went overboard in his response. And, I thought the "FULL" amount was refunded,...by the way he worded his response. It should BE THE FULL REIMBURSEMENT!!!

When I sell items on head-fi.org or Anythingbutipod.com I always state that I give a full refund in PM's if the buyer isn't satisfied. It includes S&H,...

I guess Origami bikes isn't what I thought they were,...

champignon

I have a small ownership interest in a small local restaurant chain which is managed by my business partner and his wife. The response to customer dissatisfaction is so important to our business that we have very involved systems developed to deal with problems and to resolve them literally on the spot. In the age of the internet and the resulting "democratization" of communication regarding businesses in general, it is oh so important to get things right the first time, and to avoid digging ones self into a deeper and deeper hole the further along that a disagreement proceeds. No one wins internet pissing matches, but the sure loser in all of them is the businessperson at the other end of the transaction, no matter what are the merits of the case of the dissatisfied customer.

All this having been said, I'd suggest that everyone has made their points and maybe it is time to move on from this dispute over $62 in shipping costs.

cplager

This.

Ekdog

I think the winners in this case are those of us who have been lucky enough to read this thread before sending any of our hard-earned money to this company. Thank you very much indeed to the OP for sharing this.

Elvis Shumaker

Out of all proportion here - bit of flash rust on a new bike, dealer offers to replace parts, dealer offers discount.

This is surely all perfectly reasonable.

There are many other possible reasons to step back from an online purchase. Not all may be stated.

kamtsa

Inspector Gadget would would say "It's the old I-have-spoken-and-now-you-all-should-shut-up trick".

;-)

smallwheeler

haha i was thinking the same thing! the authorities have arrived on the scene..

smallwheeler

interesting how many differing interpretations result from this incident.

champignon

:-) :-) :-)

tds101 

lycaon

Wow I'm a noob with folders and have been reading this forum for days and was thinking of ordering the Origami Cricket based on reviews by members but now I'm a little afraid. OP did you ever get to ride the Crane? Other than the rust how did the bike look and feel? Thanks.

DVC45

It was a little glitch on the part of Origami Bikes. I don't think it will happen again.
I think the issue had been resolved. Time to move on.

Maybe we can lock this thread now?

smallwheeler

what is this "thread locking" nonsense?

rebel1916

It's what people start clamoring for when the popular wisdom of any forum or sub-forum starts being challenged.

kamtsa

@lycaon, the Origami owner is a regular here. Try to contact him, who knows, you may get assurances or a special ;-)

smallwheeler

exactly. i sincerely hope we don't see that happen here.