indyfabz

Not a crutch, just a different tool/format. I once rode from Seattle to Philadelphia via Bar Harbor, ME using printed map panels with cues next to them. Only some of the roads during the last 60 miles or so of the trip were familiar to me. It's just the method I prefer, especially when touring since you don't have to worry about charging cue sheets, and you can use them to start campfires with in the evening.

livedarklions

Wait, there isn't an app for that?

indyfabz

You may have something there. A GPS device or phone with a built in particle beam generator. Could double as a frame welding device, but probably wouldn't help the crabon fibre crowd.

Squeeze

Not using the latest technology isn't necessarily a rejection of it.

TiHabanero

Electronic shifting does not do anything better than traditional cable shifting, however I think it is so slick to set up after the PIA installation that it is certainly worth considering in the future. I actually like something new!

Kapusta

superpletch

the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

It is great that you understand you are a luddite and are not trying to impose your will or judge others.

BTW I love my Di2, disc brakes, tubeless tires and carbon fibre frame

colombo357

Electronic should not be better than mechanical out of the box. Shimano and SRAM would have failed in their engineering if that were the case.

It's a year or two down the road, where Di2/eTap shifts like new and you start having to tweak the mechanical shifters.

Kapusta

Thank you for your understanding of my condition.

Di2 aside, I am actually pretty open to new stuff. I think I was one of the first 500 people in the world to buy a modern dropper post back in 2005 when Gravity Dropper came out, (years before they were widely accepted as anything but an overpriced gimmick).. I was fully on board with disc on road bikes well before there were any out there to buy. I like tubeless. I don't have any CF bikes now, but I have in the past and would be fine having one again. I think all the new All Road and Gravel bikes offerings are a great development. I think 650b is a good thing for mtbs and some gravel bikes. I like the new wide range cassettes (e.g., 10-42, 11-46).

big chainring 

When did that CPSC stuff happen...1974? I want nothing to do with bikes or components post '74. Seriously. I ride euro steel with euro components. I cant stand anything Shimano. Occasionally I have to except an SR stem or Dia-Compe brake levers. But thats it. I even feel like its cheating using 6 speed freewheels, 5 speeds are just more true. You can all ride what you want, but I stick with my Viking, Mercier, Gitane, and Frejus.

Kapusta

It happened so long ago that I don't even know what "CPSC" means.

livedarklions

https://www.cpsc.gov/Business--Manuf...e-Requirements

noglider 

Wow, @big chainring, you really are a luddite.

TimothyH

Everyone is free to like and dislike what they want. I give credit to those who are honest enough to admit that their dislike has no rational basis and is pure emotion.

Still, I doubt the authors of the statements below understand them any more than I.


-Tim-

Kapusta

Cyclist0108

The thing about Di2 is that for almost everyone, it is simply a luxury item that one can easily live without. (The exceptions I have in mind are people with arthritis or other conditions that really could benefit from not having to use mechanical shifting.)

As far as luxury gratuitous items go, I really like it. For me, it has been great not having missed a shift in five years. (I developed a lot of weird anxieties after breaking my ankle, one of which was a fear of shifting, probably due to having the chain come off my triple on my old mountain bike more often than I care to admit. Di2 cured that.)

79pmooney

I use lights because I want to lower my chances of dying on a ride. Heart rate and computer because I find these requirements for sanity riding the trainer (winter, sick and injured). Cell phone tucked into my wallet so I can call for help if I crash.

The vast majority of my daytime rides the only electronics I have are the taillights that lives full time on all my bikes and my cellphone. As for shifting, it is done without cables or wires on most of my bikes.

Ben

HerrKaLeun

Di2 probably would make more sense if it could be upgraded to added speeds. The way it is now the 11-speed can't do the 12-speed even if it only would require software changes. So electronics yes can have merits. but artificially limiting it takes the fun out.
I personally also think it should be wireless to take clutter and installation hassle away.

The way it is sold now it is overpriced and still hamstrung. When (if) they resolve the 2 above issues and the price, I'm sure it would be more acceptable to more people.

I have an 1x11 SRAM NX, which is the bottom of the barrel for 11-speed. It shifts still perfectly after over a year, didn't really require much re-adjustment and on my fatbike i drag it through a lot of mud, under-load shifting etc. I just fail to see the problem DI2 would resolve for me.
Maybe for 2x drivetrains Di2 is good with its trim adjustment and cross-chain prevention etc.but for 1x drivetrains there is not much to simplify for the rider.

Happy Feet

That is a very true statement that often gets over looked in discussions where it seems you have to choose one or the other.

I appreciate and often employ technological advancement but also find great enjoyment in stripping an experience down to its simplest form.
The good thing about bicycles is that they are cheap enough that a person can own several and have the best of all worlds.

Aluminun/Carbon Fiber, Disc, Brifters...


Hi Tensile, Fixed gear...


Chromoly, 1x7 friction, Canti's...

Sy Reene

Call me a mini-luddite.. I don't mind technology advances in the technology space, to a degree. I have a smartphone, for which I use maybe 3-4 apps on a daily basis. I really don't like that to keep my iMusic library, the lowest iPhone cost is now ridiculously high when I'm forced to 'upgrade' since my phone's processor will not be able to handle the latest OS to handle running the latest OpenTable app. In this vein, I wouldn't like a future scenario where bike shoppers don't have a choice to spend less for mechanical shifting.

Back to bikes.. Di2 is probably how I would go on a n+1, likely because it's closest copy to Campy ultrashift and more easily found -- especially in a disc-braked model. I get the 'purity' argument though. Look forward another decade, when there's potentially completely viable automatic transmissions, and motor assist (of course only when you really want it), and antilock braking, etc..

Is there any point (if it's not Di2 by itself), where you would come to think that the industry went "too far" -- and the "essence" of bicycling would be lost?

TimothyH

Can you articulate why you feel riding without Di2 is more pure than with?


-Tim-

Kapusta

TimothyH

I didn't ask for justification for anything nor did I argue for or against Di2. Everyone is free to do whatever they want.

You wrote about analog or mechanical purity. It was your statement, not mine. I simply asked why you feel that way.

It is sometimes stated that that riding with a GPS reduces the purity of cycling, riding with 5 speed is a more true form of cycling and so forth. I've not heard anyone articulate why they feel that way but would like to hear a lucid answer.

My question is sincere and I've asked it before in other threads. I'm not trying to provoke.


-Tim-

Kapusta

Actually, yes, you did.

What is it you are not understanding? I said that I don't want electronics, computers (and in a later post) motors integrated into my bike. Are you seriously not understanding why Di2 would therefore be something I don't want?

When I used the terms analog and mechanical purity, I was simply referring to not having digital and electronics integrated with the bike. But I think you already knew that.

Please explain what this has to do with me. I said nothing about the "purity of cycling", or that mine tastes were more "pure" than anyone elses.

Nice try, but I don't think so. You started this by stating that I did not even understand what I was saying......
Which sort of begs the question why you are continuing to ask me about it.

I think what you should really be focused on understanding is why it bothers you so much that someone has different tastes, preferences, or sense of aesthetics of the sport for themselves than you do. To put it in your terms, it....

52telecaster

di2 is a development that i cant afford if i wanted to, but like others have stated i am generally baffled by the different levels of shimano components. There is too much to choose from and too little difference in adjacent groups. At least for my non discriminating tastes. I use old suntour, campy and friction barends. It makes me happy and is really versatile and incredibly cheap. Biking is biking and if u can afford it and want it i say go ahead. Just try not to do harm.