climber7

thanks a ton, everyone. this is really helpful.

i'm definitely planning on experimenting with different strategies, attacking, getting some breakaways going, etc. however, almost all of our races so far this season have come down to field sprints, and since i wasn't really sure what the best approach was (especially for someone who can't put out 1600W for 5 seconds - holy crap, wr) i figured it wouldn't hurt to hear from some of you who have more experience. so thanks again.

MDcatV

correct. i'm not a pure sprinter, hell, i dont know wtf i am, but my worst race every year is the clarendon cup, a flat, highly technical crit ... and i'm not half bad at the technical part.

this is a good thread, but i think the OP got a lot of long view answers. for the immediate/short term, try to position youself near the guy you reference as winning or always being there at the end. if you can get on his wheel or at least within sight of him with a few laps to go, you'll be able to see how he does it, and you'll learn alot. if you cant hang with him due to pack navigation skills, then you know something you need to focus on improving. if you cant hang with him due to horsepower issues, then you know something that needs improving. if you cant hang with him when the sprint hits the fan, you'll know that sprinting isnt your bag.

also, dont get too hung up on max sprint wattages. sprinting, especially out of a field is about going fast to daylight for 250M or less, not just producing big watts. i've won field sprints and i've never seen anywhere near 1600W on my powermeter.

echappist

also, the racer in question has at least 25 points for cat 3 upgrade. Hopefully he'll upgrade to A's.

The really strong racer for the hills is the pitt rider (if the strava files are to be believed), whom i think is still looking for points

carpediemracing 

My field sprint wins have generally been in the 1100-1200w peak range. I led out and won a sprint (training race) and never broke 1000w, even peak, but it was in the rain. My record peak is 1550w, give or take, but only on training rides.

And, to put an idea on how much I'm saving for the finish, many of my top place races average 160-180 watts, even when there's a hill in there (like at Bethel). Once I hit 200w avg I have nothing left for the sprint.

I realized there's a huge amount of energy savings available just by getting on and off the gas gently. With the Cat 5 clinics I watch a lot of guys do kind of a "two pedal stroke sprint, brake, two pedal stroke sprint, brake" etc. I can ride next to the guy, on the tops (i.e. no brakes) and just touch the pedals every now and then, and maintain position with him. Well, +/- the foot from his surges/brakes.

You can practice this while driving. Easy on the gas, brakes. It's amazing how much you don't need to brake or accelerate once you start reading traffic better.

gsteinb

I keep writing and deleting posts.

grwoolf

While I've only been racing a year, I know I'll never be a competitive sprinter. I did a bunch of crits last year and didn't have a single top 10, even when I was feeling strong at the front near the end. In the last 200m, I just can't match the speed, not even close (and most of these were just CAT4 races).

I figured my only chance at contending was to get in a break away. However, with my early season road races, I've been consistantly in the top 10 in pack finishes and got 2nd in a field sprint. Not wins, but not getting crushed like in the crit finishes. My sprinting hasn't improved, but it seems there is way less horsepower at the finish line of a 50+ mile RR vs. a 45 minute crit. The same guys blowing by me in a crit are already OTB or just don't have the jump in their legs. I feel like I could have won the sprint in 2 of my races with marginally better tactics or technique. My take away is that I need sprint training because there are opportunties to win sprints with a marginally crap-tacular sprint. I'm sure I'm stating the obvious for many, but it took me a while to figure it out.

J HY

From a guy who just sits in the forum, has been training all winter for his first year of racing, and is 2 training races into the whole game- I gotta say thanks to everyone that contributed to this thead- it's HUGE to get this kind of perspective from a bunch of you seasoned guys and answers alot of things I've been wanting to know more about.

carpediemracing 

Let me help.

I never see wattages you guys throw around here, and I even check my computer files to look at what I got.
I try and annihilate people before the finish so that at the finish they're already dead. Then you can just crawl past them to the line.
You have to be race savvy to do well in a field sprint.

And, btw (this is me again, not me posting for gsteinb), gsteinb makes the race hard before anyone even thinks about sprinting.

gsteinb

lol.

that's pretty much what it said, though with a bit more eye rolling.

waterrockets 

That's the point of me posting my numbers. By the time I get to the 100m sign, I don't have a sprint left in me... which is why I was happy to discover that I can do quite well from 800-1000m going solo.

mattm

I'm not really a "sprinter", but all my wins came from field sprints more or less.

Unless you have team mates to follow, you need to be the wheel to follow, is the way I look at it.

That doesn't mean leading out the pack in the last few corners (though I've done that and still won), it means don't wait for someone else to do something to help you win. (unless of course they're on your team and/or trying to help you)

Racer Ex 

(edited)

echappist

tbf, your sprint is a bit different as the wheels you follow are the ones on the pace car

Racer Ex 

Good sprinting lesson:

gsteinb

that's a schooling

bostongarden

Good lesson here. When alone, it can help to be top 3-5 going in to "final turn" and be aggressive, suck it up and go for it.

mollusk

I am not a sprinter. I am more of a 3 to 5 minute power guy. The only way that I can get the better of sprinters is if they make mistakes.

If they are looking at each other and not paying attention I can launch from 500m to 1 km out, get a gap, and then they are hesitating not wanting to be the first to go and lead out the competition. Before they figure it out I am gone. Waterrockets has made a career by doing this. It is my best shot.

Another way to make them pay with mistakes is to follow them during the lead out. If the lead out is in/near the gutter (often done in a crosswind situation) I can come around and box them in behind their lead out. This one is very satisfying!

carpediemracing 

Forgot about this.

https://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.co...-sprinter.html

Brian Ratliff

That was 1 of 3. Last two are a schooling the other way.

waterrockets 

I like how in the third one, Hoy continues to look to the right, even though he knows damned well Bos has dropped, and Hoy is already closing the door on him. He's just selling it that he's looking for him. Good stuff.

AzTallRider

Thanks, CDR: Nice tips

carpediemracing 

Last year a Cat 1 went to the front at the start of a race (flat, no coasting to speak of) and just killed it for 4 laps. He drifted back to me, saw my face, and went back to the front. He killed it for at least 3 more laps. I don't know how much longer he went because at that point I came off the back of the field. Once a few guys were definitively dropped and it was obvious everyone else was on equal terms, the pace eased hard. For me it was too late, and that was their seat-of-the-pants plan.

zigmeister

You don't need to worry about wheels. Just hold 43.5mph for 15 seconds near the front, only a few pros in the world can do that.

rkwaki

Brian Ratliff

Actually a tactic, not necessarily a sell job. You know if your opponent is behind, he is also above, so you look to the right, up track. If you don't see him, by process of elimination, you know he is trying to jump underneath. Hoy was probably expecting Bos to come over the top after seeing the door was closing, which is why he kept his head turned up track. Bos was actually in the wrong (by a hair) to drop underneath. Should he have pressed his advantage on the apron, there is a pretty good chance he (Bos) would have been disqualified for unsafe riding.

EDIT: never noticed this before, but there is a bit of a gearing battle going on over the 3 races. In the first, Hoy was way overgeared and couldn't match Bos's acceleration; the second, the Hoy and Bos had the exact same gearing, and the third, Bos was undergeared.