dweenk

You definitely have a bike worth the effort, so I endorse what unworthy1 said. Bring out the lye!

restlessswind

Lye will harm paint. Harmed paint will totally ruin the efforts.
Got bike back for the shop. They oblong-ed the post and tube
Since I tried the vertical hacksaw method, there is only an inch of post sticking out.

Had I known what kind of hassle and heartache I have endured, I really regret this purchase and all of my efforts. Now my father in law has ideas that I feel are total butchery.

unworthy1

don't listen to your father-in-law then.
Yes, you already have hit some bad luck and as I said you'd need both GOOD luck and to be
"extremely fastidious" when using lye, no room for error.
In fact I'd do the set up, prepping for a really good seal in the top of the remaining post's stub (think fitted rubber plug plus silicone sealer as needed), then do a "dry run" with ammonia before using lye just to see what I had misjudged (or to have the bad luck beforehand, when it won't be "final")...Also consider what procedure you do to remove the lye and dissolved AL after it's done the job...maybe a petcock!
YRMV but don't give up without a fight!

restlessswind

I just read that lye (NaOH) solution requires a temperature of at least 60C (140F) but preferred at least 80C to react with Al.

Sitting in the back yard will certainly not make it warm enough. The reaction also creates a lot of foam. I see that foaming out of the BB

"The stoichiometric ratios for the solution are 40 of NaOH to 27 of Al, but it is necessary to have an excess of NaOH. I would say that 2 to 1 is a decent minimum. It is also true that Al will not dissolve in cold NaOH. A temperature above 80°C is desirable -- certainly above 60°C."

johnlp37

Proto 15-033 JAB SAW STANLEY - PROTO | JENSEN Tools + Supply


Keep trying with a hacksaw. I spent hours on a post but finally got it out. Cut four slots in the post then put it in a vice. Caustic was next...

unworthy1

I have only one first-hand experience using lye but I did NOT heat the water (it was luke warm) and yes there was some foaming but I was only trying to strip anodizing from some AL parts and the process went a little further than that with some loss of detail to the metal (but that anodizing was REMOVED!). My guess is the foam could bubble up and out the top (that would be the BB shell) in which case the paint's a loss.
Another detail is that you don't need to totally dissolve the post, just enough of the oxide that's chemically welded the AL to the steel (in this case both rust and aluminum-oxide AKA "anodizing"). But you can't direct the lye to go where you want it...
Did anybody use Kroil as one of the chemical penetrants? When it comes to rust I find that Kroil will beat nearly all others (and I have tried ALL others!). Hard to find and costs more but when you're in a fight to win... Plus the careful use of heat (remember your paint!) is also your ally.
Good Luck! keep punching!!

restlessswind

I will try with the hacksaw...Even if it takes several attempts, but the NaOH (Lye) is not really an option. With the containment being a serious issue.
Watch how violent this reaction is....

himespau 

I don't know if @wrk101 has seen this thread or not, but I seem to recall him having quite the experience with stuck posts.

Darth Lefty 

I'm imagining a homemade tool that's two sawzall hacksaw blades riveted in a parallelogram with their teeth out and sprung apart, so you can feed it down the post and it will saw two opposite grooves at the same time. More stable than trying to make pressure at the tip of the blade from way back at the handle.

And what could you do with a tap? As close as possible to the seat post size

Joe Breeze

Andy,

Bring it by Marin Museum of Bicycling. I made a tool to remove the post by internal screw force against the BB shell.

Joe

unworthy1

^Sheesh! Joe Breeze himself offers to take a crack at it! That's a offer you can't refuse!

2cam16

Joe Breeze and Charlie Kelly in one thread? Mt. bike heaven. lol

miamijim

1. Cut the top off
2. Drill out with appropriate size big ass drill bit
3. Using appropriate expanding reamers to finish it

Or let Joe Breeze do it...

I remember selling those back in the day. We sold every we could our hands on. Couldn't order them fast enough. In all my shop years it was the only bike we sold with premium.....maybe a $50 premium. Owner of the shop bought a 17? and never opened the box. It went in the basement with other special bikes/frames.

Repack Rider

I told Joe about the problem this morning, and he was online a minute later offering to help.

He is that kind of guy.

2cam16

Both of you are,Charlie.
One of these days I need to make a drive up north to visit the museum.

motogeek 

Always loved this bike. If I could have a collection of significant (to me) bikes the GD HKEK would definitely be in there. Nice find.

WolfRyder

Listen to the Grateful dead or Further(Phish isn't bad either), and work on bikes.

Repack Rider

There is an actual GD connection.

Here is the chapter in my book about meeting Gary Fisher at the Grateful Dead office in 1971.

WolfRyder

Right on cool excerpt, I might have to check out your book. Ride on and keep the extended GD jam playing.

restlessswind

I have decided to go with the lye method. I found rubber corks at the hardware store. Please let me know if I miss a step or method...


1. Within the bottom bracket hub, I will plug all inside tubes (chainstay and down tubes) with rubber corks and then cork the BB openings.
2. I will also plug the top and down tubes within the headset hub and headset hub with rubber corks. ( I will use grease to help seal all the corks.)
3. I will plug the remaining vent holes in the frame with vinyl tape.
4. I will wrap the entire bike with vinyl tape, then cover with sliced open rubber inner tubes, and again with some more tape. ( I want to protect the paint)
5. I will clamp a rubber plumbing reducer to the seatpost opening to use as a fill funnel. I will also drape the wrapped frame with plastic sheeting.
6. I will wear protective clothing/gloves and facial protection.
7. Run a fan to blow the fumes away ( I will be doing this in my side yard)

Best amount of lye:water ratio? 1 lb of lye should be ample. I read the amount should be 2:1 NaOH to Al
I figure it will take some time and multiple fill and pour routines.

Wish me luck!

Andy

dailycommute

I have used lye, do not recommend it really as nasty. Still my tips are use a bike stand to hold the frame in correct position--outside only in decent weather with a large bucket underneath to catch excess. Wear gloves, goggles, cover exposed skin, etc. Make sure your face is not near the bb when you pour in the lye. My take on stuck stems and seatpost is not to bother anymore. Do not think it was ever worth the effort except for personal satisfaction. But gl man if the thunder don't get you the lightening will!

Darth Lefty 

I think you should do this instead:

restlessswind

I missed this post

Yes, I will!!! Thanks !

unworthy1

as the one to bring lye into this discussion, I ALSO recommend you take it to Joe Breeze (as you have decided) BEFORE you mess with lye. But if his efforts fail (and all others) I would say my instinct is to do the opposite: fill the lye solution into the BOTTOM opening of the seat tube in the BB shell (Yes With a funnel and all the other precautions you noted) obviously with the frame upside down, clamped in a stand with a bucket under the top of the seat tube (now at the bottom).
Because: won't need to fill with as much fluid to get to the level of the stuck post plus you'd have more head-room for foaming and exapansion; you only have to plug ONE opening: the slit and the hole in the top of the seat tube; any lye solution that leaks into the TT SHOULD (should!) do no harm to that tube or the weld there.
But despite all your prep I still would do a test run with ammonia 'cause something can/will go wrong that you didn't foresee...the ammonia will hurt nothing and you MIGHT even get it loose with just that! Imagine! Save the lye to make soap!

Repack Rider

FYI, Joe is out of town this weekend.