A lot of the recent "innovation" is a bad bargain for anyone not pushing a competitiv
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I read that too, and wondered. Note that he says in the part that you quote "I advise never ride on the road until the day of the race. And they still absolutely rip it.” Which means that the people he advises practice on Zwift and then win road races, so I presume he is teaching them how to be aero in their homes.
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I think we're all losing sight of the important issue -- road bikes sold today ARE KILLING PEOPLE because they are not set up like TikTok's bike. By his own estimate, 5% of new cyclists DIE because they are sold bikes that are comfortable. (One can only imagine how many more die because they buy comfortable clothes and shoes!)
Hmm. If one out of every 100, or 10, would be cyclists (I put it at more like 50%) give up cyling because they are sold a **** aluminium CHEST TO THE WIND, CHEST PARACHUTE bike then perhaps 1 out of every 10 of those persons will die, yes, DIE, because some local BS shop wants to make some money out of selling "bikes that pros ride." We are talking about death here. Come on! This is no joke fellas. I keep getting jokey myself but then I remember. There is a reason why Americans are obese. And one of them is that bike shops are selling lies. Even in Japan, my thin students have purchased road bikes (in partial emulation of me their prof) made of unyeilding junk, in a geometry pushing their CHEST TO THE WIND, and stopped using those horrible road bikes, and (I think) got fat. I find this is very objectionable.
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No, it's not. There is a law of diminishing returns. At some point a bike can't help you go any faster. You could put Tadej Pogascar on a department store bike and he would still crush most of the riders in the world.
Put any driver in the world in a Corolla and any average driver could smoke them in a drag race with an M5. Maybe a road course, too, depending.
Put any driver in the world in a Corolla and any average driver could smoke them in a drag race with an M5. Maybe a road course, too, depending.
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The performance enhancement that a $13k bike will give you over a $5k bike is very, very small.
Most people spending the extra $$ are doing so because they have money. Not because it's providing a useful increase in performance.
Anyway, most people buying an M5 aren't driving it in a way that requires the extra performance.
My point: they don't make much sense on a performance level but people keep suggesting they do because they are expensive (not really considering the magnitude of the actual "extra performance").
Really-expensive bikes are weird things.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-24-22 at 09:30 AM.
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The funny thing about the Rolex vs 'cheap watch' comparison is that the cheap watch is likely to be a better timekeeper than the Rolex, because quartz accuracy will always be superior to mechanical. So, you don't buy the Rolex because you're looking for the best timekeeper, whereas when you spend $13K vs $5K on a bike you can reasonably expect to get a better bike.
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I think we're all losing sight of the important issue -- road bikes sold today ARE KILLING PEOPLE because they are not set up like TikTok's bike. By his own estimate, 5% of new cyclists DIE because they are sold bikes that are comfortable. (One can only imagine how many more die because they buy comfortable clothes and shoes!)
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It's like people avoiding the dentist because they find it too relaxing.
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The funny thing about the Rolex vs 'cheap watch' comparison is that the cheap watch is likely to be a better timekeeper than the Rolex, because quartz accuracy will always be superior to mechanical. So, you don't buy the Rolex because you're looking for the best timekeeper, whereas when you spend $13K vs $5K on a bike you can reasonably expect to get a better bike.
(Even the watch thing is somewhat more complicated. You won't be able to swim with the (really) cheap watch (for example).)
The problem with the "better bike" argument is that people assume it's (like) "80% better" when it's like, maaaybe, 1%. The extra money spent at that level very inefficient. Most people buying really expensive bikes are doing so because they can. Not because the tiny extra performance has much practical value to them.
I think what a lot of us forget is that a $3000 bike is ALREADY an M5 compared to the "average" bike. This is more like comparing say, the base Porsche 911 Carrera with the 911 GT3 - the Carrera is already so fast and capable that you'd only notice the difference at a much higher level of driving than you do every day.
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...33 pages. *golf clap*
...33 pages. *golf clap*
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The problem with the "better bike" argument is that people assume it's "80% better" when it's like, maaaybe, 1%. The extra money spent at that level very inefficient. Most people buying really expensive bikes are doing so because they can. Not because the tiny extra performance is worth much to them.
Most people buying Porsches never use them in "a much higher level of driving" situation.
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Nothing more satisfying than leaving someone in the dust on their high end bike. But you never know if they are doing a recovery ride or are just not up to the bike, but I’ll take it anyway.
There will always be wealthy or very indebted wanna be or just plain status seekers out there that buy the best. Just like the Lamborghini Aventador stuck in traffic that I cruised by on my bike yesterday. It no doubt makes them feel good and if that is what their ego needs, and they can afford it, so be it. I am way past being jealous or bitter about what they have since that is a waste of time.
I bought a nicer bike two years ago - far from a $15K bike, and the difference over my 80s and 90s steel and aluminum bikes is incredible. I can’t say I have ridden a $15K bike so I can not say with any certainty how much lighter, more precise, quicker shifting a bike like that might be. Reading reviews of such bikes by knowledgeable reviewers, there has to be something there. For people that can afford and want one, good for them. I am happy with my choice since it is comfortable, relatively light for an endurance bike, and occasionally gets a compliment which is good my male ego. (When I ride my vintage bikes I get far more compliments by the older set. They obviously appreciate the retro-nature but little can they appreciate how much more work I have to put out to climb or accelerate. As a result, I don’t enjoy it that much and pretty much stick to the newer bike.)
There will always be wealthy or very indebted wanna be or just plain status seekers out there that buy the best. Just like the Lamborghini Aventador stuck in traffic that I cruised by on my bike yesterday. It no doubt makes them feel good and if that is what their ego needs, and they can afford it, so be it. I am way past being jealous or bitter about what they have since that is a waste of time.
I bought a nicer bike two years ago - far from a $15K bike, and the difference over my 80s and 90s steel and aluminum bikes is incredible. I can’t say I have ridden a $15K bike so I can not say with any certainty how much lighter, more precise, quicker shifting a bike like that might be. Reading reviews of such bikes by knowledgeable reviewers, there has to be something there. For people that can afford and want one, good for them. I am happy with my choice since it is comfortable, relatively light for an endurance bike, and occasionally gets a compliment which is good my male ego. (When I ride my vintage bikes I get far more compliments by the older set. They obviously appreciate the retro-nature but little can they appreciate how much more work I have to put out to climb or accelerate. As a result, I don’t enjoy it that much and pretty much stick to the newer bike.)
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Most divers can't afford Rolexes (and Rolexes aren't very useful for diving either).
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I thought the Rolex was for captaining submarines, aren't they?
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A Rolex and a cheap watch also both tell the time ("both get you there"). And people will still rationalize that the Rolex is "better".
The performance enhancement that a $13k bike will give you over a $5k bike is very, very small.
Most people spending the extra $$ are doing so because they have money. Not because it's providing a useful increase in performance.
Anyway, most people buying an M5 aren't driving it in a way that requires the extra performance.
My point: they don't make much sense on a performance level but people keep suggesting they do because they are expensive (not really considering the magnitude of the actual "extra performance").
Really-expensive bikes are weird things.
The performance enhancement that a $13k bike will give you over a $5k bike is very, very small.
Most people spending the extra $$ are doing so because they have money. Not because it's providing a useful increase in performance.
Anyway, most people buying an M5 aren't driving it in a way that requires the extra performance.
My point: they don't make much sense on a performance level but people keep suggesting they do because they are expensive (not really considering the magnitude of the actual "extra performance").
Really-expensive bikes are weird things.
Now, you are arguing the performance isn't worth it.
Make up your mind.
People who drive an M5 or ride a Pinarello or wear an expensive don't really care what others think or whether the performance differential is linear. There are obviously diminishing returns.
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You know this isn't always true. Or you are unbelievably naive.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-24-22 at 12:56 PM.
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A Rolex and a cheap watch also both tell the time ("both get you there"). And people will still rationalize that the Rolex is "better".
The performance enhancement that a $13k bike will give you over a $5k bike is very, very small.
Most people spending the extra $$ are doing so because they have money. Not because it's providing a useful increase in performance.
Anyway, most people buying an M5 aren't driving it in a way that requires the extra performance.
My point: they don't make much sense on a performance level but people keep suggesting they do because they are expensive (not really considering the magnitude of the actual "extra performance").
Really-expensive bikes are weird things.
The performance enhancement that a $13k bike will give you over a $5k bike is very, very small.
Most people spending the extra $$ are doing so because they have money. Not because it's providing a useful increase in performance.
Anyway, most people buying an M5 aren't driving it in a way that requires the extra performance.
My point: they don't make much sense on a performance level but people keep suggesting they do because they are expensive (not really considering the magnitude of the actual "extra performance").
Really-expensive bikes are weird things.
People who spend what to others seem like ridiculous amounts on select items rarely judge those who spend less yet, it does not apply the other way around. Second only to audiophiles cycling is filled with ridiculous subjective judgements such as feel and ride quality and place a arbitrary price threshold on what is appropriate to spend.
For reference; I own a Rolex, Bike is over $13K, Drive an AMG and don’t really care what others wear, ride or drive.
Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 07-24-22 at 01:17 PM.
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It’s always interesting the arrogance of people who determine the appropriate level to spend on products and judge others with that standard.
People are free to spend how ever much they like on what ever. That doesn't necessarily mean doing so makes much sense. And discussing the reasons behind purchases isn't "judging" people.
There are also people who have more money than they know what to do with. But, as far as a justifiable reason for purchasing something, this is not interesting.
Last edited by njkayaker; 07-24-22 at 01:46 PM.
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I know this has been written before, but it's good advice:
Buy what you like to ride. If the bike you like costs big bucks, and you have the bucks to spend, go for it.
If the fancy and expensive bike induces you to ride more, it's money well spent.
Buy what you like to ride. If the bike you like costs big bucks, and you have the bucks to spend, go for it.
If the fancy and expensive bike induces you to ride more, it's money well spent.
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For what its worth I ride in a group where 10+k$ bikes are really common (live in a super rich area) and I don't think ive ever heard someone "brag" about the price or model of their bike.
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I think we're all losing sight of the important issue -- road bikes sold today ARE KILLING PEOPLE because they are not set up like TikTok's bike. By his own estimate, 5% of new cyclists DIE because they are sold bikes that are comfortable. (One can only imagine how many more die because they buy comfortable clothes and shoes!)
I thought road bikes were fast because they are lighter, when it is pretty much all in the body position.
I am not sure how many people go to bike shops hoping to be helped back to fitness only to be sold un-aerodynamic bling (or a "Rolex") and how many give up cycling partly as a consequence, and how many fail to lose weight, and then die partly facilitated in that way but I hope it is none at all.
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Please stop. You've gone from a quirky guy with an extreme setup to someone that exposures total nonsense. The idea that people will give up cycling because their bike does not have an aggressive setup is laughable, and every post you make defending that theory makes you look crazy.
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