New bikes, and the creeping cost of entry to our favorite sport
#151
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You can't really compare bikes to cars here. When I worked in insurance I was surprised to find out that Kia's were getting written off left right and center. The reason being is that they were selling the car at almost cost and then making the money back through overcharging on replacement parts. For example my client bought a brand Kia for $14k and a week later had a accident. The damage estimates were at $18k!!! Chrysler was notorious for doing this to.
I'm surprised that bikes are still so cheap. Way back in the early 90's I was asked to join a cycling team/club. I remember my LBS had a Kuwahara Newport left over from the 1980's which I was told was a "Mid level" bike. The regular price was $900 Cdn, but it was on sale at $700 Cdn. To get a Bianchi was $2500cdn. So close to 30 years later the prices hasn't shifted that much.
I'm surprised that bikes are still so cheap. Way back in the early 90's I was asked to join a cycling team/club. I remember my LBS had a Kuwahara Newport left over from the 1980's which I was told was a "Mid level" bike. The regular price was $900 Cdn, but it was on sale at $700 Cdn. To get a Bianchi was $2500cdn. So close to 30 years later the prices hasn't shifted that much.
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That's kind of the point, for entry into the sport.
Most of that isn't the original bike btw. Yeah there's some rust on the crank arms, a couple of nuts, but I really don't get the whole "it can't be ridable" thing. Entry level is more a matter of attitude than dollars.
Most of that isn't the original bike btw. Yeah there's some rust on the crank arms, a couple of nuts, but I really don't get the whole "it can't be ridable" thing. Entry level is more a matter of attitude than dollars.
#154
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That's kind of the point, for entry into the sport.
Most of that isn't the original bike btw. Yeah there's some rust on the crank arms, a couple of nuts, but I really don't get the whole "it can't be ridable" thing. Entry level is more a matter of attitude than dollars.
Most of that isn't the original bike btw. Yeah there's some rust on the crank arms, a couple of nuts, but I really don't get the whole "it can't be ridable" thing. Entry level is more a matter of attitude than dollars.
Meanwhile, his formerly shiny new mountain bike is gathering dust in my garage.
Edit:
I wonder what that bike shop would sell that bike for now given the demand for used bikes?
Last edited by MRT2; 04-06-21 at 12:30 PM.
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#155
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Riding bicycles isn't a sport. It's an activity. Racing bicycles is a sport.
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Actually, no. Cycling can be a sport even it is not racing. I would make an analogy to running and swimming. All activities involving physical exertion that certainly could be engaged in competitively, but more often are not.
#157
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Actually recreational bicycling is an inexpensive activity. To put things in perspective.
For $200 Less then my new 18 - 200mm Nikon zoom lens for my aging D90 dslr I could by a new Giant Escape hybrid bicycle. An excellent bike all around. A decent bowling ball, bag and shoes could easily set you back as much as that new Giant bike. On top of the $35 - $50 a week to bowl including refreshments. I'm in Canada where everything is expensive
My friends old 29' wellcraft boat will burn up enough gas in a weekend easily to by a good new bike Thanks to feeding it's 2 x 5.7l V8 engines. To be fair though, boating can be insanely expensive even for the well too.
For $200 Less then my new 18 - 200mm Nikon zoom lens for my aging D90 dslr I could by a new Giant Escape hybrid bicycle. An excellent bike all around. A decent bowling ball, bag and shoes could easily set you back as much as that new Giant bike. On top of the $35 - $50 a week to bowl including refreshments. I'm in Canada where everything is expensive
My friends old 29' wellcraft boat will burn up enough gas in a weekend easily to by a good new bike Thanks to feeding it's 2 x 5.7l V8 engines. To be fair though, boating can be insanely expensive even for the well too.
Last edited by xroadcharlie; 04-06-21 at 02:36 PM.
#158
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Actually recreational bicycling is an inexpensive activity. To put things in perspective.
For $200 Less then my new 18 - 200mm Nikon zoom lens for my aging D90 dslr I could by a new Giant Escape hybrid bicycle. An excellent bike all around. A decent bowling ball, bag and shoes could easily set you back as much as that new Giant bike. On top of the $35 - $50 a week to bowl including refreshments. I'm in Canada where everything is expensive
My friends old 29' wellcraft boat will burn up enough gas in a weekend easily to by a good new bike Thanks to feeding it's 2 x 5.7l V8 engines. To be fair though, boating can be insanely expensive even for the well too.
For $200 Less then my new 18 - 200mm Nikon zoom lens for my aging D90 dslr I could by a new Giant Escape hybrid bicycle. An excellent bike all around. A decent bowling ball, bag and shoes could easily set you back as much as that new Giant bike. On top of the $35 - $50 a week to bowl including refreshments. I'm in Canada where everything is expensive
My friends old 29' wellcraft boat will burn up enough gas in a weekend easily to by a good new bike Thanks to feeding it's 2 x 5.7l V8 engines. To be fair though, boating can be insanely expensive even for the well too.
BTW, I don't disagree that the cost of cycling is fairly reasonable once you buy the bike. You do have repairs, and accessories, but again, once you have what you need, you are talking a couple of hundred dollars a year in an average year, and even if you have a big repair, it won't be as much as the cost of maintaining a boat., and there is not cost for gas (like you do with power boats, marina fees, club fees (tennis, golf), lift tickets, or plane tickets.
Last edited by MRT2; 04-06-21 at 03:29 PM.
#159
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Compared to other hobbies and interests I’ve had over the years from sailing, to Airstreams, scuba, competitive shooting, etc well, bicycling isn’t that bad.
You can do all those things I mentioned relatively inexpensively, or you can spend really big bucks. Companies want you to spend big bucks. Duh.
As an industry matures and to some extent commoditizes, brands can either compete on price or compete with exclusivity. There is always going to be someone cheaper. If a company can, competing on the high end is where it’s most profitable.
Gucci did this years ago. They limited their sku’s, cancelled all the licensing agreements and dramatically increased their prices to generate perceived exclusivity and profits. Worked great.
That’s what’s going on with bicycles. Leave the low priced bikes to entry level riders and jack up the price, features, etc to create an impression of value and exclusivity to the enthusiast rider. When the reality is, 99% of riders are the same speed on a $2k bike as they are on a $15k bike. What’s the difference? Features that make a difference to the top 1%. Other than that, mainly marketing and profit.
Of course, I’m the exception. I really am a better rider with my fancy bike.....
You can do all those things I mentioned relatively inexpensively, or you can spend really big bucks. Companies want you to spend big bucks. Duh.
As an industry matures and to some extent commoditizes, brands can either compete on price or compete with exclusivity. There is always going to be someone cheaper. If a company can, competing on the high end is where it’s most profitable.
Gucci did this years ago. They limited their sku’s, cancelled all the licensing agreements and dramatically increased their prices to generate perceived exclusivity and profits. Worked great.
That’s what’s going on with bicycles. Leave the low priced bikes to entry level riders and jack up the price, features, etc to create an impression of value and exclusivity to the enthusiast rider. When the reality is, 99% of riders are the same speed on a $2k bike as they are on a $15k bike. What’s the difference? Features that make a difference to the top 1%. Other than that, mainly marketing and profit.
Of course, I’m the exception. I really am a better rider with my fancy bike.....
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#160
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The CAADX Tiagra is listed on the Cannondale website as a current model, but they don't list the price. But we are getting into the weeds here. The topic of this thread was the creeping costs of entry. While $1,300 is in some ways entry level for Cyclocross or gravel racing, that is not what I was talking about. I was talking about just getting started with an entry level bike that doesn't suck, and my point is, that used to be $400, maybe $450, that that price is way up.
Oh no, it was new and the wear and tear is all on me. The bike is scuffed up, but in no way requires any repair. Bar tape, that's it.
Just curious, why attack my beater like that? I'd expect more respectful conduct from a moderator, but maybe I'm just behind the times here.
Just curious, why attack my beater like that? I'd expect more respectful conduct from a moderator, but maybe I'm just behind the times here.
I've got a k-mart/ames/woolworth special in the basement to fix up, the truth is, if I wasn't doing it as a favor to the person it wouldn't be worth it. He bought it for 20.00, tires are dry rotted, brake pads are solid chunks of hard rubber on really cheap old canti's. Bring it to a shop and you're looking at 50.00 for 2 tires, 15.00 for tubes, 65.00 for a tune up, 20.00 for pads putting you at a 150.00 for a 20.00 bike that cost 100.00 30 years ago. Just not worth it. The thing is better then the average wal-mart special today so, being the bargain hunter I am for 60.00 total I've got new tires, tubes, v-brakes and levers arriving friday and will exchange labor for a haircut. His GF is my usual hairdresser which is how I got pulled into this. If it weren't for this connection the rant above about these style bikes going to the shop could have been their shop visit and they wouldn't understand why since they think bikes should still cost 125.00 in 2021.
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#162
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Not having read all the discussion above, I have noticed, for example, that my base model Allez with Claris was msrp $750 in 2018 and now it is $1000, no changes in components or geometry. It may be my own perception, but 750 seems way more appropriate compared to 1000, it's a great bike but it kind of sucks if the entry into road cycling is $1k for folks. Even before the pandemic I was pretty disappointed at the high entry into gravel and especially CX, which is supposed to be a really grassroots sport (I got lucky and got a new CX with canti brakes on clearance a couple of years ago for 700). I think the cost is worth it, for me at least, given how much I ride bikes, but for a novice I think there's going to be some sticker shock keeping some from joining in
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What constitutes "sport" is one of the oldest and most pointless arguments extant. Everyone believes the term means what they wish it to mean and no opinion will ever change.
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Not having read all the discussion above, I have noticed, for example, that my base model Allez with Claris was msrp $750 in 2018 and now it is $1000, no changes in components or geometry. It may be my own perception, but 750 seems way more appropriate compared to 1000, it's a great bike but it kind of sucks if the entry into road cycling is $1k for folks. Even before the pandemic I was pretty disappointed at the high entry into gravel and especially CX, which is supposed to be a really grassroots sport (I got lucky and got a new CX with canti brakes on clearance a couple of years ago for 700). I think the cost is worth it, for me at least, given how much I ride bikes, but for a novice I think there's going to be some sticker shock keeping some from joining in
Not anymore.
#165
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The people of Central Pennsylvania haven't really gotten the word that bikes are in demand according to my reading of Craigslist. Although it does seem like the asking price for a decent low-end used bike is $250 now, instead of $100. There is one bike listed that was bought in the spring of last year. Don't think it was bought in town though, don't know of a dealer here for that brand. Not nearly enough supply to meet demand. But State College is not a good place for a casual cyclist, have to be fairly athletic to go very far.
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Point I was trying to make, which I lost somewhere when the moderator was hating on my ride (j/k Unter, it's no big deal 😂 ) was that it was a ridable entry level bike new at $129, and is still rideable 13 years later. Much improved, in fact. A similar quality bike, new, goes for $200 today. So I'm sticking to it: the cost of entry still isn't that steep if you have the right attitude.
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My point that disappeared in the hate was that you are not typical, and the typical new bike buyer will not be able to tell that your bike is ridable without significant cost at a bike shop. And your bike looks like it was a pretty decent bike at one time. The typical new bike buyer would not be able to tell that, and knows it.
My long-time commuter was a 1985 spesh rockhopper. I kept it in pretty good condition for decades, even riding it to work all winter on the heavily salted roads. Then I gave it to my son to ride to class. He turned it into a rust bucket in a little over a year. I gave him my other commuter and he took it to California, so hopefully it won't be destroyed so quickly. I would say it was a pretty good entry level bike, but I imagine that a tune up at a bike shop still would have cost $200-$300. I have a high tolerance for things that mostly work. A good shop is not going to feel that way, and I agree that they shouldn't. In the condition it's in now, it's mostly a write-off, unless it's going to someone who does their own wrenching. I.e., not and entry level buyer.
Penn State salvage is selling all the abandoned student bikes. They wait a year after they tag a bike to confiscate it. Not sure if they do that with cars. Not too many good bikes in that collection though. They have an auction where the bikes are a big attraction. Most of those are uneconomic to repair. Wheels seem to be a big issue on those bikes, even the better ones.
My long-time commuter was a 1985 spesh rockhopper. I kept it in pretty good condition for decades, even riding it to work all winter on the heavily salted roads. Then I gave it to my son to ride to class. He turned it into a rust bucket in a little over a year. I gave him my other commuter and he took it to California, so hopefully it won't be destroyed so quickly. I would say it was a pretty good entry level bike, but I imagine that a tune up at a bike shop still would have cost $200-$300. I have a high tolerance for things that mostly work. A good shop is not going to feel that way, and I agree that they shouldn't. In the condition it's in now, it's mostly a write-off, unless it's going to someone who does their own wrenching. I.e., not and entry level buyer.
Penn State salvage is selling all the abandoned student bikes. They wait a year after they tag a bike to confiscate it. Not sure if they do that with cars. Not too many good bikes in that collection though. They have an auction where the bikes are a big attraction. Most of those are uneconomic to repair. Wheels seem to be a big issue on those bikes, even the better ones.
Last edited by unterhausen; 04-07-21 at 09:31 AM.
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#168
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My point that disappeared in the hate was that you are not typical, and the typical new bike buyer will not be able to tell that your bike is ridable without significant cost at a bike shop. And your bike looks like it was a pretty decent bike at one time. The typical new bike buyer would not be able to tell that, and knows it.
My long-time commuter was a 1985 spesh rockhopper. I kept it in pretty good condition for decades, even riding it to work all winter on the heavily salted roads. Then I gave it to my son to ride to class. He turned it into a rust bucket in a little over a year. I gave him my other commuter and he took it to California, so hopefully it won't be destroyed so quickly. I would say it was a pretty good entry level bike, but I imagine that a tune up at a bike shop still would have cost $200-$300. I have a high tolerance for things that mostly work. A good shop is not going to feel that way, and I agree that they shouldn't. In the condition it's in now, it's mostly a write-off, unless it's going to someone who does their own wrenching. I.e., not and entry level buyer.
Penn State salvage is selling all the abandoned student bikes. They wait a year after they tag a bike to confiscate it. Not sure if they do that with cars. Not too many good bikes in that collection though. They have an auction where the bikes are a big attraction. Most of those are uneconomic to repair. Wheels seem to be a big issue on those bikes, even the better ones.
My long-time commuter was a 1985 spesh rockhopper. I kept it in pretty good condition for decades, even riding it to work all winter on the heavily salted roads. Then I gave it to my son to ride to class. He turned it into a rust bucket in a little over a year. I gave him my other commuter and he took it to California, so hopefully it won't be destroyed so quickly. I would say it was a pretty good entry level bike, but I imagine that a tune up at a bike shop still would have cost $200-$300. I have a high tolerance for things that mostly work. A good shop is not going to feel that way, and I agree that they shouldn't. In the condition it's in now, it's mostly a write-off, unless it's going to someone who does their own wrenching. I.e., not and entry level buyer.
Penn State salvage is selling all the abandoned student bikes. They wait a year after they tag a bike to confiscate it. Not sure if they do that with cars. Not too many good bikes in that collection though. They have an auction where the bikes are a big attraction. Most of those are uneconomic to repair. Wheels seem to be a big issue on those bikes, even the better ones.
#169
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I disagree it's an activity that can be treated as a sport and as a consequence will be raced. I ride a bike as transport, stress relief, and some fresh air not for sport/fitness/racing.
#170
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I disagree it's an activity that can be treated as a sport and as a consequence will be raced. I ride a bike as transport, stress relief, and some fresh air not for sport/fitness/racing.
#171
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I am continually amazed by the large number of abandoned bikes there are around me. Some eventually disappear after several months but others stick around for years. I've had my eye on a pair of 70s-era 10-speeds (one Ross, one Fuji) locked up side-by-side for at least a couple years already. Their seats and tires have dry-rotted and I am sure there's a ton of rust so they would take a lot of work to be made rideable again. But I'd sure be tempted if they came up for auction.
#172
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Penn State salvage is selling all the abandoned student bikes. They wait a year after they tag a bike to confiscate it. Not sure if they do that with cars. Not too many good bikes in that collection though. They have an auction where the bikes are a big attraction. Most of those are uneconomic to repair. Wheels seem to be a big issue on those bikes, even the better ones.
Since I was the "bike guy" on my old campus, and ran a rental program, our facilities guys would bring those abandoned bikes to my operation. We'd strip off whatever was usable, which usually wasn't much, and scrap the rest.
#173
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This post makes no sense.
The small companies that built your trikes do not magically get lower wage rates and lower tax rates.
By the way, real wage rates in the US for all but the top 10% of earners have been flat or falling for over 40 years, and the US corporate tax rate is lower than all other leading industrialized economies other than the UK. And the US has the sixth-lowest rate of overall taxation among the 37 OECD countries.
You know, the same device that you use to post this stuff can be used to learn the truth.
The small companies that built your trikes do not magically get lower wage rates and lower tax rates.
By the way, real wage rates in the US for all but the top 10% of earners have been flat or falling for over 40 years, and the US corporate tax rate is lower than all other leading industrialized economies other than the UK. And the US has the sixth-lowest rate of overall taxation among the 37 OECD countries.
You know, the same device that you use to post this stuff can be used to learn the truth.
#174
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Low corporate tax on bike producing corporations is a good thing. They like all corporations just PASS tax increases right thru to the public that buys their products such a bikes. Increased taxes and wage inflation is why my $1200 bike of 2008 now costs $2200. Another example is the first little all brick two bedroom house we bought for $14500 now sells for $200,000 even tho it is now 54 years older.
There are many reasons for inflation, taxes are not one of them.
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#175
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I've bought most of my bikes new, but on sale late in the season or last year's model. I save hundreds of dollars doing this and get much more bike for my budget - most of them fit the OP's target price. To the OP, you can't buy last year's bike during the pandemic, my LBS is selling bikes before they arrive. I have a bike on order right now, I've been waiting 4 months for a bike that would've been a same day purchase in the Before Times.
If you're running a business, and you're selling product faster than you can get it ... are you going to mark down the price?
I expect you'll be able to pick up a quality bike in late '21 or in '22 for $500 to $750 again.
If you're running a business, and you're selling product faster than you can get it ... are you going to mark down the price?
I expect you'll be able to pick up a quality bike in late '21 or in '22 for $500 to $750 again.