Bad Lag

Isn't this thread about "UNREALISTIC" expectations (a mismatch) of the course designers, bikes and the riders?

I'd bet there are people online here who could not do the Piedras Blancas ride because of their age and physical condition. Others could do the 100 miler on a single speed, even on gravel.

Does different gearing really help? The elevation gain and energy expenditure isn't going to change all that much although it does affect power output and speed/time. If you're not ready for a 100 mile ride, I don't think the gearing is going to change that situation - you're not ready.

How does all that get sorted out? I think it should happen before riders show up at Eroica. Be realistic about what you can do on the bike you have given your physical condition.

It IS supposed to be fun, am I right about that or not? I remember my wife's legs cramping up (HUGE, excrutiating, unrelenting muscle spasms) after riding around the Paso Robles area. <-- nobody wants that

Maybe I just do not truly understand the OP's question.

Brad L 

I had to check that one out but it's really there. The only 10% grade would be off the curb. I suspect they meant to put this one,

Brad L 

Have you seen this one? It's not too long and not too hilly. Perfectly manageable on vintage gearing.

Vintage Bike Tour in Texas

northbend 

I rode it fixed one year on 42x20. Was able to clear 9 mile hill without stopping or walking.

Climbing fixed was hard but not as hard as another year when I rode my '37 Hobbs with an Osgear 4speed FW set up. Low gear was 45x24. The Hobbs frame made of Reynolds 531, has pencil thin seatstays and thin steel dropouts.
This makes it flex alot under hard pedaling. Adding to this is the long chain tension arm of the Osgear system that is mounted on the downtube curving underneath the bottom bracket.
It flexes under heaving pedaling as well and I ended up striking it with my heel occasionally. End result of all that flexing was that any time I tried to stand up and pedal hard the chain would skip on the freewheel - a bit like a ghost shift.
The only way to climb was with a very slow and smooth pedal motion.
I find if granny gear ratios are equal, the fixed gear is easier than a free wheel when climbing. The momentum of the fixed gear driven wheel helps carry the stroke through that ‘dead spot’ you experience with Freewheels.

One other thing. It’s actually the downhills that pose the biggest challenge/pain for riding fixed on rough roads. I feathered front and rear brakes to keep my legs from spinning out of control. Your arms and hands get so tired. You cannot coast over obstacles like you can with a FW. No bunny hopping.
Watching bironi descend fixed is something else. He has handling skills I don't have but I'd venture to say he'd agree with me...

As for the OP about high milage/elevation rides with tall gearing. It is doable if you're willing to prepare for it. I first started riding fixed in my early 50's.
Started out riding shorter distances then increased them as I learned there was a certain mindset to approaching them.
Physical training was a must (I rode and trail ran ALOT to prepare). So was thinking ahead how/when to use my limited amount of energy during those longer rides. I found that aspect quite appealing.
At 53, I rode the STP double century (4K feet gain) as a training ride for RAMROD (150 miles, 10k feet gain) later that summer. Both on the fixed gear 42x17.

I'm not in that kind of shape these days though....

Bad Lag

See what I mean? This is the real issue, I believe.

It's not the transmission, it's the motor.

Andy_K 

I did see that and it looks fantastic. Unfortunately, my travel budget this year isn't sufficient for me to make it, but I hope it becomes an annual tradition. I'd really love to do that ride.

Andy_K 

I think it's supposed to be Type II fun, bordering on Type III. Suffering is definitely an intended aspect of the event, but I don't think they mean to actually do any permanent physical damage to anyone.

Brad L 

That's the plan.

Oldairhead 

Well, Luciano was the real deal, being an Italian National Cyclo-Cross Champion many times over, and his bike was maintained to be period correct but........

An Eroica rider might see Luciano on the course and assume that he rode to that point in the event. Often times though, especially later on he would be driven up the course and then unload and ride for awhile, often so he could be seen riding in to the next check point or rest stop. His job was "to be seen" and he was a great representative for the event!

One year at Eroica Hispania I rode by him early in the ride while he was stopped at a Cafe with the Italian contingent. An hour later he was ahead of me and just getting on his bike at the side of the road. A couple of rest stops later he would be there eating and getting his photo taken, and finally at the end of a 10 plus hour day there he would be at the finish! He never rode by me but was always ahead and looking fresh!

Now I am not trying to take anything away from Luciano because he was an amazing guy! But for a number of years his Eroica's were mainly for show.

Classtime 

nlerner

Next thing you know someone is going to say that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are fake.

steelbikeguy

well, I did say that he made it look easy.

That's a pretty interesting story, and he did seem to be the unofficial face of the ride, so maybe not a surprise to see him wanting to look good?

After a certain age, I can see the point of modifying a ride to keep it tolerable.. but it would be good to be clear about whatever shortcuts were taken.

Steve in Peoria (I'm old enough to just want to avoid injuries)

wrk101

The riders that amaze me are on fixed gear, and it's the steep DOWNHILLS that are the most amazing to me.

I seem to recall someone posting about the RAMROD ride doing it with fixed gear.

northbend 

I wrote about it back in 2010: Here

79pmooney

Off pavement downhill on the fix gear - the fix gear is a real control advantage. The drag on on the rear wheel helps keep the bike in line when tires want to dig in. Yes, the RPMs get old and the crotch take a beating, My solution, not quite real C & V, is to run a double sided fix gear hub (fixed with lockrings on both side) plus an extra cog, chainwhip and lockring wrench or on my Mooney, a triple crankset and the same hub with one cog on one side and two on the other. (Rode the deep gravel logging road from Oregon's Willamette Valley to the coast on it. Gugie and Andy K were there.)

Run the fix gear downhill in a 95" gear and the ride (and control) is sweet!

My TiCycles fix gear with chainwhip on the TT, tiny cog on the far side of the seat bag and Pedros Trixie hub and lockring wrench under. (Photo taken going up a 14% grade, Cycle Oregon 2014.)

Andrew_G 

I rode Eroica-CA in Paso Robles in 2017 (age 60; 70 mile medium) and 2018 (age 61; 89 mile coastal route). In 2019 (age 62), from Cambria I rode the 35 mile Peidras Blancas route, and afterwards I checked out and then did a solo ride down south on Highway 1 to Cayucos and then returned back to Cambria.


I really needed my 34x28 for the 2017 & 2018 events. For the 2019 Piedras Blancas route, there are a couple of short hills (as I recall) where the low gearing helped, but others powered over those short steep climbs in taller gearing. On my solo ride afterwards, I definitely needed the 34x28 on the long slog climb approaching Cambria on my northbound return back from Cayucos.


Eroica rules allow for modifying the gearing to suit your needs. (Section 6.1 Bicycles, subsection h: "the change of the gear ratios is allowed due to the difficulty of the ride".)


So, ride what works!

1989Pre 

I am trying to understand this statement. Are you implying that if I train intelligently, fifty gear inches is something an average rider in good condition can negotiate with 8,500 ft of climbing in 97 miles? If there is knowledge to be had or a technique to be mastered, I'd like to know about it. If we are to believe the ride organizers in their F.A.Q, we should take heed to their advice: "If your gearing is 39Tx28T, you should do okay." This setup puts one at a little over 35 gear inches.

1989Pre 

Thanks. I want to stay period-and-place correct, and had somehow forgotten that the Williams C34 has chain-rings as low as 34T. It'll take some expenditure to swap-out, but it's probably the easiest (only) way for me to ride the bike I want.

Polaris OBark

The forum software doesn't filter out nonsense bravado.

1989Pre 

I find this compelling.., even exciting. Your 42x17T drive-train comes out to 67.44 gear inches when using 27 x 1 1/4" wheels.
My 50 x 28T is only 48.87. My knees are just fine and my health is perfect, although I am 65. I am approaching my goal weight of 149 pounds (5'9") and my cycle training begins on April 28, in 60-day preparation for Bike Virginia. Right now, it is just yoga, weights and long, brisk walks.
Thanks for the information on the Osgear, pencil stays and the period dropouts. I have the same dropouts on the Barnard (either B.S.A. or Chater-Lea) and pencil stays, but am running a Simplex 303 r.d., which has proven to be excellent and firm.
So, I am very pleased to hear that with the right training, big gears can be used on these rides with substantial climbing. I would be very interested in any tips or tricks that one could offer in regard to musculo-skeletal conditioning in this regard.
Were you concerned at the start of that ride with 10,000 ft of climbing, or were you confident that your training had been specific and adequate?

northbend 

Please take this with a grain of salt :-) Totally unscientific, it works for me. Your mileage may vary:
You don't have much time to build up stamina and strength. If I were you, I'd carefully add running into your routine. Specifically, running up/down hills but don't over do it.
Start off slow for x amount of minutes and gradually increase over time. Be especially careful running downhill - that is where you are most likely to injure yourself.
You don't want to hurt yourself but you do want to regularly stress yourself in those workouts. Make sure you wear some good running shoes. Try to run on trails which demand your attention.
Not only will it help you physically but mentally which I think is a bigger part of being able to do tough endurance events.
Get used to feeling the strength being sapped out of your legs as you run hills. Control your breathing. Toughen your mind. Get used to your muscles being sore.
I'd find that after the initial stress of going uphill, my body would find a way to relax and get into a rhythm even though I wasn't slowing down. That comes from being familiar with physical stress.

My training hill is Rattlesnake Ledge Trail - 1100 ft gain in 2 miles.

Good luck to you!

Edit: Forgot to answer this question >
I was pretty confident.
I had ridden the STP double Century earlier in the summer proving I could do the distance and a few weeks before RAMROD I rode 80 miles out n back through Mt. Rainier National Park to the high point at Paradise from the Hwy 410 entrance proving I could do the elevation gain (it was over 10,000 feet of climbing) using the same gearing.

1989Pre 

My last marathon was 2009, but I broke 4 hours then, and can still do it. I've been babying myself a bit by running on a flat M.U.P. There are a couple hills around here that I can repeat, maybe even tote some weight in my pack. Thanks for the inspiration and my hat is off to you on having the drive to do those rides on a high fixed-gear.

2019 Save Our Swinging Bridge 5K, sprinting at 100% exertion for the finish line:

Bad Lag

What I meant ws, no matter how low your gearing is, if you are not ready for the 100 mile ride, no amount of lower gearing will help.

This is not bravado and certainly not "nonsense bravado", it is a cautionary statement.

You cannot just install a triple crank and a wide range freewheel and think 100 miles with climbing is now doable.

I know I am not ready. I know I should not, and would not, even attempt it because it would not be any fun. It would not be exercise, it would be punishment.

Andrew_G 

In 1981, when I was 24 years old, I rode three double centuries in one month. My gearing was 42x53, 13-23, Campy Nuovo Record. My first DC was a team time trial on the Davis DC which we completed in 10:20 overall. My second DC was the Tour of Two Forests, with 10,000 feet of climbing over 214 miles I completed that ride in about 14:00. My third DC was the Los Angeles Wheelmen DC, where I rode the inland 'hilly' version just to be sure that I completely hammered the summer season. I completed that ride also in about 14:00. On all DCs I rode strongly and well. I generally finished in the bottom of the top 1/3rd, except for the Davis DC, where we finished 8-9-10.

On my 2017 Eroica CA, (70 miles at age 60), with my 34x28 bottom gearing I was sufficiently hammered by the 30? mile middle point that I was considering packing it in. I struggled to complete the remaining 40 miles. The sawtooth up-down part of the last part of the second half really beat me up.

(In 1981 had similar fatigue when I rode the same areas at the Great Western Bicycle Rally in Paso Robles)

On my 2018 Eroica-CA, (89 mile 'coastal' ride at age 61) my 34x28 (about 33.5" with 700x28 tires) was barely adequate for me to grind up the hills, except for the Kiler ("Killer") Canyon section where practically everyone (including me) walked. Just before Eroica-CA, I had briskly ridden a local century or two, so I considered myself adequately trained. I thiink that the 89 mile coastal ride (in consideration of my age) was equivalent to a double century in effort and resulting fatigue.

I thus consider 34x28 as a minimum bottom gear. 34x30 would be even better. Other BF members have suggested a 24" gear, which I also recommend as even better. At 5'-10.5" tall and 152 lbs, I wasn't too heavy, but I've always been a bit short on overall brute horsepower.

I also recommend the best brakes you can get. My Campy NR brakes with new Kool Stop 'salmon' pads on the downhill sections of the hilly inland course were a 20-30 minute full grip white knuckle experience. If I let up on the brakes for 1 second (literally!) I was at risk of crashing into a rock wall or alternately riding off the road into a canyon. Mafac Racer brakes with their longer brake pads, or Weinmann centerpulls with aftermarket long brake pads will save you from a life threatening event if you can't hold on at full strength for the downhill canyon sections. BTW, I local friend told me that Mafac brakes work as well as modern Campy double pivot calipers.

If you ride the 35 mile Piedras Blancas coast route, the brake performance won't be an issue. 34x28 will be a very reasonable bottom gear for those short climbing sections.

If you do any inland section, I recommend tougher tires. For the 35 mile Piedras Blancas route standard thickness tires will be OK. For the PB coast route, the gravel section is a short 1/8th ? mile track down to the lighthouse, and the same length back.

Also: I use Weather Underground to get highly localized weather reports. You can pick stations which are geographically adjacent to the course route, and therefore get accurate "10 day" predicted results to help you dress accordingly. In my 2018 Coastal ride, it was 34ºF (?) at the 7:00 am (?) starting line. There were quite a few riders who were very unhappy to be so underdressed in the cold.

Andrew G.

1989Pre 

Andrew G: Thanks for the wealth of information. I appreciate it. In view of what you have told me, I feel my best option is to ride my Manufrance, which, with a Nervar triple, has a 30T inside ring. Combined with the 28T low gear on my freewheel, I get roughly 28.5 gear inches. This bike does, indeed, have the Mafac "Racer" brake-set (I have N.O.S. pads if anyone needs them).
In my view, the ride organizers have tried (successfully) to duplicate the conditions of European grand tours. While doing that, they have ignored the great tradition of racing in Britain, which had less climbing and with higher gear, there was a lot more "mashing". Ironically, Eroica Britannia (if they are able to hold it this year) has 9,500 feet of climbing...more than either their Italian or American counter-parts.
As if you haven't supplied enough information already, could you elaborate on what you consider to be the necessary characteristics of adequate tires at Eroica Cal? I have never ridden on un-paved surfaces, even with my A.T.B.