What do you do about people who list their bikes for outrageous prices?
09-25-11, 09:07 PM
#26
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Well said, sir, well said indeed.....
Some questions:
If you read an ad in the newspaper, for a car that is overpriced, do you notify the editor?
If you read a classified ad in one of those trader publications, do you notify the publisher?
If you walk onto a car lot, and a vehicle is priced at double NADA, do you call the mayor?
Why then, do we feel we need to take action when a bike is overpriced on CL?
What gives us the right to judge prices in classified ads?
Perhaps I didn't get the memo.
It's not an emergency situation, like with gouging after hurricanes.
It's a bike. It's priced by the seller, subject to the market's desires.
Is there some kind of rule out there that: "Thou must charge only prices that the internet public agrees with " ?
Perhaps we are so quick to criticize is because we can do it anonymously, and remotely.
I'm not defending the prices, but I do think it's a free country, and last I checked,
the government was not appointing price police. I'm sure that's coming; the price of votes seems to be going up.
I agree with the irritating "highest bidder" seller, but they were around in classified ads, too. Just say no?
I simply don't buy things that are grossly overpriced unless I have to (medical care, dentistry, HVAC repair, jewelry).
Other things, I avoid buying.
It took me 100x as long to write this as to make a buy/don't buy decision on a bike on CL.
If you read an ad in the newspaper, for a car that is overpriced, do you notify the editor?
If you read a classified ad in one of those trader publications, do you notify the publisher?
If you walk onto a car lot, and a vehicle is priced at double NADA, do you call the mayor?
Why then, do we feel we need to take action when a bike is overpriced on CL?
What gives us the right to judge prices in classified ads?
Perhaps I didn't get the memo.
It's not an emergency situation, like with gouging after hurricanes.
It's a bike. It's priced by the seller, subject to the market's desires.
Is there some kind of rule out there that: "Thou must charge only prices that the internet public agrees with " ?
Perhaps we are so quick to criticize is because we can do it anonymously, and remotely.
I'm not defending the prices, but I do think it's a free country, and last I checked,
the government was not appointing price police. I'm sure that's coming; the price of votes seems to be going up.
I agree with the irritating "highest bidder" seller, but they were around in classified ads, too. Just say no?
I simply don't buy things that are grossly overpriced unless I have to (medical care, dentistry, HVAC repair, jewelry).
Other things, I avoid buying.
It took me 100x as long to write this as to make a buy/don't buy decision on a bike on CL.
important things going on in the world, why does
this bother you ?"
Or to quote Thumper Rabbit:
"If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say nothin' at all."
09-25-11, 09:44 PM
#27
Ridin' South Cackalacky
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Here's the deal: these people don't usually need the money. They want a sale, but they aren't hurting. Often, they are playing the Greater Fool theory, hoping a greater fool than they will come along.
The answer is to be a negotiator. This is a lost art, these days. We tend to throw our hands up, get pissed or pass judgement. Too bad. You'd be amazed what just talking to someone will reveal, if you only listen.
Try some of these things:
Do some research into something called the Fibonacci ratio. It will help you learn about the psychology of setting prices.
There is a psychology to it, believe it or not. It is actually cultural, and has been around as long as there has been money in use. In essence it says that the selling price is somewhere between 60 and 80% of the inflated asking price.
Then understand why people sell things on classifieds. Most of the time, it is to clear space or get money for more stuff. Neither really hurts them, though, if it doesn't sell. In other words they don't need the money, so you have to figure out what they DO need.
So ask them why are they selling? where did they get it? and so on. Dont be a jerk about this, just get them talking. Get some basic information you can work with. Get to know what motivates them.
In reality, most of those who are sincere know they will eventually sell for less than asking price. The insincere ones, on the other hand, will show themselves pretty quickly once you contact them. If they turn out to be idiots, rude or both, you can move on, that much wiser.
Getting the seller to a reasonable price will be the challenge, and doing so may have little to do with the price itself in the end. I got a once-ridden, name brand road bike last year for 60% off the retail asking price this way.
I just asked some questions, got the dialogue going and worked with the seller until she sold. It took half a dozen emails over a month to get there.
She wanted to get the bike out of the way because she was moving - that was her real motivation. Finding that out was the key.
The answer is to be a negotiator. This is a lost art, these days. We tend to throw our hands up, get pissed or pass judgement. Too bad. You'd be amazed what just talking to someone will reveal, if you only listen.
Try some of these things:
Do some research into something called the Fibonacci ratio. It will help you learn about the psychology of setting prices.
There is a psychology to it, believe it or not. It is actually cultural, and has been around as long as there has been money in use. In essence it says that the selling price is somewhere between 60 and 80% of the inflated asking price.
Then understand why people sell things on classifieds. Most of the time, it is to clear space or get money for more stuff. Neither really hurts them, though, if it doesn't sell. In other words they don't need the money, so you have to figure out what they DO need.
So ask them why are they selling? where did they get it? and so on. Dont be a jerk about this, just get them talking. Get some basic information you can work with. Get to know what motivates them.
In reality, most of those who are sincere know they will eventually sell for less than asking price. The insincere ones, on the other hand, will show themselves pretty quickly once you contact them. If they turn out to be idiots, rude or both, you can move on, that much wiser.
Getting the seller to a reasonable price will be the challenge, and doing so may have little to do with the price itself in the end. I got a once-ridden, name brand road bike last year for 60% off the retail asking price this way.
I just asked some questions, got the dialogue going and worked with the seller until she sold. It took half a dozen emails over a month to get there.
She wanted to get the bike out of the way because she was moving - that was her real motivation. Finding that out was the key.
Last edited by dahut; 09-26-11 at 07:31 AM.
09-25-11, 09:56 PM
#28
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It's the same mistake only backwards. I've gotten a couple of really great deals on local pick up auctions. Just not that many people in a small town who've heard of some of these obscure things.
09-25-11, 10:00 PM
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Like this one?
SCHWINN COLLEGIATTE,1974. A STEAL DEAL - $999 (OBO BELLEVILLE MI)
https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/2608711937.html
ROFLMAO
"What we've got here is... failure to communicate." "Some men you just can't reach."
SCHWINN COLLEGIATTE,1974. A STEAL DEAL - $999 (OBO BELLEVILLE MI)
https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/2608711937.html
ROFLMAO"What we've got here is... failure to communicate." "Some men you just can't reach."
09-25-11, 10:02 PM
#30
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Like this one?
SCHWINN COLLEGIATTE,1974. A STEAL DEAL - $999 (OBO BELLEVILLE MI)
https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/2608711937.html
ROFLMAO
"What we've got here is... failure to communicate." "Some men you just can't reach."
SCHWINN COLLEGIATTE,1974. A STEAL DEAL - $999 (OBO BELLEVILLE MI)
https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/2608711937.html
ROFLMAO"What we've got here is... failure to communicate." "Some men you just can't reach."
PRICED TO GO NOW !!!! IN GREAT SHAPE EVER THE ONE AND ONLY SCHWINN COLLEGIATTE ,1974 BUILT IN CHICAGO. WELL KEPT AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE PHOTOS. PSE CALL FRANK 7347784716
unfortunately i don't think it's going anywhere...
09-25-11, 10:06 PM
#31
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This clown from Houston started posting a Bikesdirect bike here for $100 more than the cost of a new one. He posted it every day for a week when I sent him a polite email asking why he was asking more than the price of a new one. He sent me a profanity laced response explaining that it had new tires. When I pointed out that only meant that it had so many miles he had worn out the original tires, he went really crazy, saying he could find where I live from my email address. Turns out he was posting in Austin because he had been kicked off Houston Craigslist and he thought I was the one responsible for that. It continued to show up on a regular basis for about a month without any reduction in price..
Ignore it, some people are nucking futs.
Ignore it, some people are nucking futs.
09-25-11, 10:47 PM
#32
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Funny, I posted a men's Raleigh DL-1 for $250 a couple of years ago. Really shiny and fresh grease in all the bearings. Some guy wrote me a series of really rude emails about how he'd researched my bike and found out what a gouger I was and on and on.
It sold pretty quick at that price.
It sold pretty quick at that price.
09-26-11, 04:04 AM
#33
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Like this one?
SCHWINN COLLEGIATTE,1974. A STEAL DEAL - $999 (OBO BELLEVILLE MI)
https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/2608711937.html
ROFLMAO
"What we've got here is... failure to communicate." "Some men you just can't reach."
SCHWINN COLLEGIATTE,1974. A STEAL DEAL - $999 (OBO BELLEVILLE MI)
https://annarbor.craigslist.org/bik/2608711937.html
ROFLMAO"What we've got here is... failure to communicate." "Some men you just can't reach."
09-26-11, 04:10 AM
#34
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Same thing I'd do in a store. Pass.
You could make an offer, which the seller may think is as ridiculously low as you think the asking price is high.
If he/she refuses, then simply understand it's not a bike you're going to get for that price.
You may get a counter demand, also absurd, which is a good indication the two of you perceive things differently.
That's CL for you. He may think you are as uneducated about the bike as you think he is.
You could make an offer, which the seller may think is as ridiculously low as you think the asking price is high.
If he/she refuses, then simply understand it's not a bike you're going to get for that price.
You may get a counter demand, also absurd, which is a good indication the two of you perceive things differently.
That's CL for you. He may think you are as uneducated about the bike as you think he is.
09-26-11, 06:49 AM
#35
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I find posts complaining about outrageous prices far more annoying than the ads. It's their bike - they can ask whatever they want. Your option is to not buy it. If they overprice, it won't sell. The high asking prices are, in a way, good for us...it makes it easier to sell a bike for market value and helps enforce the concept of old bikes as collectible.
09-26-11, 07:00 AM
#36
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Here's the deal: these people don't usually need the money. They want a sale, but they aren't hurting. Often, they are playing the Greater Fool theory, hoping a greater fool than they will come along.
The answer is to be a negotiator. This is a lost art, these days. We tend to throw our hands up or get pissed. Too bad.
Try some of these things:
Do some research into something called the Fibonacci ratio. It will help you learn about the psychology of setting prices.
Then understand why people sell things on classifieds. Most of the time, it is to clear space or get money for more stuff. Neither really hurts them, though, if it doesn't sell.
Then ask them why are they selling? where did they get it? and so on. Get some basic information you can work with. Get to know what motivates them.
In reality, most of those who are sincere know they will eventually sell for less than asking price.
Getting them to that price is the challenge, and doing so may have little to do with the price itself in the end. I got a once-ridden, name brand road bike last year for 60% off the retail asking price this way.
I just asked some questions, got the dialogue going and worked with the seller until she sold. It took half a dozen emails over a month to get there.
She wanted to get the bike out of the way because she was moving - that was her real motivation. Finding that out was the key.
The answer is to be a negotiator. This is a lost art, these days. We tend to throw our hands up or get pissed. Too bad.
Try some of these things:
Do some research into something called the Fibonacci ratio. It will help you learn about the psychology of setting prices.
Then understand why people sell things on classifieds. Most of the time, it is to clear space or get money for more stuff. Neither really hurts them, though, if it doesn't sell.
Then ask them why are they selling? where did they get it? and so on. Get some basic information you can work with. Get to know what motivates them.
In reality, most of those who are sincere know they will eventually sell for less than asking price.
Getting them to that price is the challenge, and doing so may have little to do with the price itself in the end. I got a once-ridden, name brand road bike last year for 60% off the retail asking price this way.
I just asked some questions, got the dialogue going and worked with the seller until she sold. It took half a dozen emails over a month to get there.
She wanted to get the bike out of the way because she was moving - that was her real motivation. Finding that out was the key.
Also - negotiations are about leverage. Is it more important for you to buy it or for them to sell it? If you're willing to walk away from a sale, you get better deals. You want leverage in a deal? Don't get worked up about it, forget the concept of grail bikes...or must have bikes...and understand another deal will always come aorund. It's ok to miss. Unless it's a Confente, Singer, Herse, 60's De Rosa, etc....it's not really unique and there's something else around the corner.
I've gotten three of my bikes by offering VERY low numbers in a very friendly way as fishing...throw out enough lines and something is going to bite. When sending a low offer, never question value...that gets you into a contest with the seller and it becomes a battle of the wills thing. Send an email saying how much you like the bike, you know it's valuable, and you can afford $XXX. You understand if they can't take it...BUT...if they find they need the cash, the offer is open. It won't work often, but it does work every now and then. I got my Merlin that way.
The important thing, buying or selling, is to understand who has the leverage, what a fair price is and not making it personal. People view negotiating as a war...and they want to win. No one wants to feel beaten, or taken advantage of. The trick is the psychology...you have to get past the contest aspect so the person gives you what you want, or a compromise you can live with, without feeling like they were "beaten". I always ask for more than I expect on a bike because I expect to haggle - and I want to let the buyer feel like he beat me while actually getting what I want.
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 09-26-11 at 07:08 AM.
09-26-11, 07:55 AM
#37
Ridin' South Cackalacky
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+1...great post.
Also - negotiations are about leverage. Is it more important for you to buy it or for them to sell it? If you're willing to walk away from a sale, you get better deals. You want leverage in a deal? Don't get worked up about it, forget the concept of grail bikes...or must have bikes...and understand another deal will always come aorund. It's ok to miss. Unless it's a Confente, Singer, Herse, 60's De Rosa, etc....it's not really unique and there's something else around the corner.
I've gotten three of my bikes by offering VERY low numbers in a very friendly way as fishing...throw out enough lines and something is going to bite. When sending a low offer, never question value...that gets you into a contest with the seller and it becomes a battle of the wills thing. Send an email saying how much you like the bike, you know it's valuable, and you can afford $XXX. You understand if they can't take it...BUT...if they find they need the cash, the offer is open. It won't work often, but it does work every now and then. I got my Merlin that way.
The important thing, buying or selling, is to understand who has the leverage, what a fair price is and not making it personal. People view negotiating as a war...and they want to win. No one wants to feel beaten, or taken advantage of. The trick is the psychology...you have to get past the contest aspect so the person gives you what you want, or a compromise you can live with, without feeling like they were "beaten". I always ask for more than I expect on a bike because I expect to haggle - and I want to let the buyer feel like he beat me while actually getting what I want.
Also - negotiations are about leverage. Is it more important for you to buy it or for them to sell it? If you're willing to walk away from a sale, you get better deals. You want leverage in a deal? Don't get worked up about it, forget the concept of grail bikes...or must have bikes...and understand another deal will always come aorund. It's ok to miss. Unless it's a Confente, Singer, Herse, 60's De Rosa, etc....it's not really unique and there's something else around the corner.
I've gotten three of my bikes by offering VERY low numbers in a very friendly way as fishing...throw out enough lines and something is going to bite. When sending a low offer, never question value...that gets you into a contest with the seller and it becomes a battle of the wills thing. Send an email saying how much you like the bike, you know it's valuable, and you can afford $XXX. You understand if they can't take it...BUT...if they find they need the cash, the offer is open. It won't work often, but it does work every now and then. I got my Merlin that way.
The important thing, buying or selling, is to understand who has the leverage, what a fair price is and not making it personal. People view negotiating as a war...and they want to win. No one wants to feel beaten, or taken advantage of. The trick is the psychology...you have to get past the contest aspect so the person gives you what you want, or a compromise you can live with, without feeling like they were "beaten". I always ask for more than I expect on a bike because I expect to haggle - and I want to let the buyer feel like he beat me while actually getting what I want.
Negotiation is the Art of the Win-Win. The buyer brings more than money, the seller offers more than the goods being sold. You used the word compromise... well chosen verbiage. And just as the highpriced seller is probably not desperate for the money, neither are you hurting for the acquisition. Working from this non-partisan position is actually liberating and leads to the best deals.
Agree with the seller and even praise them for their choice. It IS a desired bike, and you'd like to give it a home. Let them know what your budget is and why. You don't have to tell them more.
Expect to get a fair price, and know what that is through research. Most flip sellers or enthusiasts already know and plan to end up there, anyway. But don't beat sellers up for the rock bottom, deal-of-the-century price. Again, get to know the Fibonacci Ratio and how it applies.
I refrain from ever asking stuff like, "Whats your bottom dollar?" or "How low can you go?" etc. I just go there myself, and gently nudge them along.
I certainly don't beat them down for a "foolish" seller, nor do I tell them what "research" has revealed about their foolishness. That is insulting and the door will slam shut a that point. Most of the time they are winging it, basing the decision on the best of what they see on the internet, at bike shops or 'American Pickers'.
The show YOU want to watch is Pawn Stars.
In the end if they tell you, NO, well nothing lost. Thank them profusely and politely suggest that you will talk to them later. "Would you object if I contact you later?" is one way to put it. Few people ever object when it's asked this way. Then contact them again in a few weeks, or a month, regardless.
Last edited by dahut; 09-26-11 at 08:10 AM.
09-26-11, 08:00 AM
#38
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+1...great post.
Also - negotiations are about leverage. Is it more important for you to buy it or for them to sell it? If you're willing to walk away from a sale, you get better deals. You want leverage in a deal? Don't get worked up about it, forget the concept of grail bikes...or must have bikes...and understand another deal will always come aorund. It's ok to miss. Unless it's a Confente, Singer, Herse, 60's De Rosa, etc....it's not really unique and there's something else around the corner.
I've gotten three of my bikes by offering VERY low numbers in a very friendly way as fishing...throw out enough lines and something is going to bite. When sending a low offer, never question value...that gets you into a contest with the seller and it becomes a battle of the wills thing. Send an email saying how much you like the bike, you know it's valuable, and you can afford $XXX. You understand if they can't take it...BUT...if they find they need the cash, the offer is open. It won't work often, but it does work every now and then. I got my Merlin that way.
The important thing, buying or selling, is to understand who has the leverage, what a fair price is and not making it personal. People view negotiating as a war...and they want to win. No one wants to feel beaten, or taken advantage of. The trick is the psychology...you have to get past the contest aspect so the person gives you what you want, or a compromise you can live with, without feeling like they were "beaten". I always ask for more than I expect on a bike because I expect to haggle - and I want to let the buyer feel like he beat me while actually getting what I want.
Also - negotiations are about leverage. Is it more important for you to buy it or for them to sell it? If you're willing to walk away from a sale, you get better deals. You want leverage in a deal? Don't get worked up about it, forget the concept of grail bikes...or must have bikes...and understand another deal will always come aorund. It's ok to miss. Unless it's a Confente, Singer, Herse, 60's De Rosa, etc....it's not really unique and there's something else around the corner.
I've gotten three of my bikes by offering VERY low numbers in a very friendly way as fishing...throw out enough lines and something is going to bite. When sending a low offer, never question value...that gets you into a contest with the seller and it becomes a battle of the wills thing. Send an email saying how much you like the bike, you know it's valuable, and you can afford $XXX. You understand if they can't take it...BUT...if they find they need the cash, the offer is open. It won't work often, but it does work every now and then. I got my Merlin that way.
The important thing, buying or selling, is to understand who has the leverage, what a fair price is and not making it personal. People view negotiating as a war...and they want to win. No one wants to feel beaten, or taken advantage of. The trick is the psychology...you have to get past the contest aspect so the person gives you what you want, or a compromise you can live with, without feeling like they were "beaten". I always ask for more than I expect on a bike because I expect to haggle - and I want to let the buyer feel like he beat me while actually getting what I want.
The "I have another person interested" line is often a ploy, sometimes not, but it really doesn't matter.
I've been presented this line before by CL sellers, all after I've offered the selling price.
In each case, I simply withdrew my offer and thanked the seller for his/her time, explaining I don't do CL auctions.
3 of the 4 times, I got an email back within a few days, asking if the offer was still good. It wasn't. I guess the 4th one sold.
A BF member told me the same thing: 'someone else is interested." I politely withdrew my offer and wished him luck.
A week later, he told me he'd be able to sell it for my offer, as the other buyer wouldn't go that high. I bought it.
6 months later, I get into a conversation with another guy, and discover he was actually the "other buyer."
The bike was on CL, where he saw it, and BF, where I saw it. Neither of us offered asking price, but I was closest.
The seller was totally up front about it. It happens. I keep that in mind.
09-26-11, 08:03 AM
#39
Senior Member
Ignore them. It's no different than the people that list gas for 10, 20 or more cents per gallon than the next guy. Just keep on driving till you find a price that you like.
09-26-11, 08:31 AM
#41
Senior Member
I was at a swap meet a few weeks ago. This lady had a rusty Nishiki Sport. I asked how much, she said $85. I made a counter offered $10. I don't speak espanol, but I didn't need a translator to understand estupido gringo.
09-26-11, 09:17 AM
#43
aka: Mike J.
Can't do that with CL though because you don't know when closing time is.
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09-26-11, 09:39 AM
#44
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I usually ignore it. The exception would be if it's something I would REALLY like. Then it comes down to whether or not the price is worth it to me.
I've found it's buyer beware regardless of a private sale or a supposedly reputable shop.
I've found it's buyer beware regardless of a private sale or a supposedly reputable shop.
09-26-11, 10:55 AM
#45
Dropped
Arrange to see the bike in person. Then kick the seller in the teeth.
09-26-11, 11:15 AM
#47
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They are not really interested in selling their bikes right away, and just leaving it on the "bobber" for any desperate sucker who might bite anyway at their overly inflated prices.
Same goes for components that had been sitting at ebay with ridiculous prices on them for months and months. What is bad is, it fools other sellers to price their similar items for the same.......so nothing gets sold, and restoration projects are sometimes stalled. It wasn't this bad last year and the year before, but the crazy pricing looniness seems to be taking a long hold on many items at eBay. Mavic quill stems and bars at 250 - 300 bucks???!....really??! It's really crazy to think that a stem or handlebar could be priced to approach the value of a bike's frameset??
Chombi
Same goes for components that had been sitting at ebay with ridiculous prices on them for months and months. What is bad is, it fools other sellers to price their similar items for the same.......so nothing gets sold, and restoration projects are sometimes stalled. It wasn't this bad last year and the year before, but the crazy pricing looniness seems to be taking a long hold on many items at eBay. Mavic quill stems and bars at 250 - 300 bucks???!....really??! It's really crazy to think that a stem or handlebar could be priced to approach the value of a bike's frameset??
Chombi
09-26-11, 01:03 PM
#48
You gonna eat that?
Originally Posted by bragi 
09-26-11, 01:21 PM
#49
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And in ref to Chombi, some other toothless derf will see this kind of ad, and post his 1960's girls tanked Hawthorn as even rarer than Schwinn's, with an equally outlandish price. The cascade effect then spreads out from there.
I had to deal with this kind of intellect at my last job. We would expalin to these small brains, that the price they see is an asking price, NOT a sold price.
I could not even sell it in the store for that price, no matter how we packaged it, let alone buy from them at there insane asking price. They just wouldn't get it thru their brains. Usually there was muttering and somehow we were trying to rip them off, because the price they saw on line, is what it's worth.
Last edited by catmandew52; 09-26-11 at 01:39 PM.
09-26-11, 02:27 PM
#50
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Bikes: '53/'54 Bianchi CDM, '62ish Altenburger Cinelli Mod B, '69 Rene Herse Competition, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '73-74 Colnago Super,, '73-74 Cinelli SC, '78ish counterfeit Confente, '82 Medici Gran Turismo, '67ish Mondia Speciale, Eddy Merckx Pro
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We have TONS of overpriced bikes on the Chicago CL. I keep scrolling down the page. If I had a dollar for every overpriced fixter POS or Varsinental, I'd be rich. If I cared much, I'd have had a stroke by now.
And, though none of us care to admit, there just might an occasion or two where the seller actually knows more than we do. Just sayin....