curbtender

rgppgr

Thanks, I don't see to much that resembles my frame in the this PUCH.

martl

i only know about "Kondor" with a "k" - remearkably similar though

https://www.rennrad-geschichten.de/r...che-raubvogel/

rgppgr

It does look a lot like mine. The color makes it seem more so. The diamond cut out on the lug, crown on the front fork, braze on pieces, six speed are the differences I see. I can't tell if the inside fork has stiffeners or not. And the lack of eye attachments for add ons. It is a nice looking bike.

rgppgr

New addition. I'm stripping the bike to clean and hopefully find any clues. There was a spot on the head tube where the paint had flaked off. I started removing paint with my fingernail. Under it I found this.

It appears, at least, these lugs and tube are chromed.

thumpism 

I have a Condor made in Switzerland but it's a townie-type 3-speed and not a higher end road bike like yours and the frame details are completely different. I'm posting so you can see the headbadge/decal for reference. Mine has no name on the downtube. Bad photo is from the time I found the bike in our local co-op. It now hangs in my garage.

rgppgr

Thanks for the post. I've ruled out Swiss Condors. There is nothing about them that matches mine. Is your BB Italian?

rgppgr

I noticed

some paint dimples at the seat tube tops. After sanding I found two things. One was the stamped Y and 1. The second is the piece is brass with a plating on top followed by a gray primer coat and the paint.

juvela

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perhaps member Doug Fattic may have some informatioin on this...

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rgppgr

Not the best chrome job. Note head tube edges.

Seat lug, top tube lug and down tube lug have a raised portion on angles less than 90 degrees. Here on the under side in the middle. The seat tube treatment doesn't seem factory. But what do I know.

I could barely see a kerf on either edge of the BB with a glass.

Just one example of the sloppy brazing.

Uneven and sloppy work to me. Were production bike like this?

Another brazing sample.

Unfinished seat stay treatment.

I can see two, maybe three dip lines of chrome. Front and rear. The rear is flaking quite bad.

Another "raised" portion in the center of the lug. There's one on the down tube lug bottom also.

Doug Fattic 

Just so you understand how those lugs were made, the "raised" portion of the lug is the welded seam used to hold the stamped and rolled sheet together. Better builders not only file that seam until it is smooth, they also shape the shorelines so they are smooth curves. The modest wages for an average European worker in the 50's and 60's probably meant they needed a modestly made and priced bicycle.

Do I see ribs inside the steerer? That shape of a rib I think I may see comes from Japanese tubing and not Columbus Italian.

rgppgr

Yes you did. Good eye. There are 5 lands at an angle that extend just over 2 inch into the tube. Would this mean the rest of the frame is Japanese? If so what tubing would it be. For the age it's light. What are shore lines?

Doug Fattic 

If there are ribs inside the steerer, that means the tubing is either made by Tange or Ishiwata. Columbus used thinner ribs. It would help if you could take a clearer picture of inside the lower part of the steerer by the fork crown. Then I can tell for sure if the ribs are Japanese or Italian. Off the top of my head I think those ribs are Tange but I don't remember exactly which one of those Japanese companies made that steerer. Even though the tubing is probably Japanese, that doesn't mean the frame was made in Japan just like Reynolds tubing doesn't mean a frame is made in England or if it is Columbus the frame is made in Italy. Also the quality of workmanship indicates it is a mass produced frame. The mediocre workmanship combined with chrome seems to confirm that observation. For a production company, chrome adds noticeable bling while hiding its quickly made workmanship.

The shorelines of a lug is a term used by frame builders to describe the edge of a lug.

rgppgr

I will get a picture tomorrow. Would a mass produced frame use campy dropouts and weigh in the neighborhood of five and half pounds?

rgppgr

Can you tell?

Doug Fattic 

Yes that looks like a Columbus steerer. In the picture I took this morning the Columbus steerer is all the way to the left. You can see that the ribs are much thinner and they spiral and there are 5 instead of 6 ribs like on the Japanese steerers. There should be the Columbus dove symbol stamped on the outside of the steerer. They quit doing that around 1983 + -

Doug Fattic 

Yes, there were many production made frames that used Campy dropouts. Of course usually they were their upper end models. Sometimes it is possible to see the Columbus markings near one end of the main tubes. They will tell whether it is SL or SP tubing. This imprint wasn't very deep so you have to look close to see it if it is there. sometimes it was lost when the tube was mitered or being finished with emery to clean and smooth the tubes before painting. Both Reynolds and Columbus quit doing that in the 80's. Probably the frame was made out of the lighter Columbus SL (with 0.9/0.7/0.9 mm wall thickness). The heavier SP (1/7/1) was usually used on bigger frames. SL chain and seat stays could be quite light.

rgppgr

Thank you. There were no markings of any kind anywhere on the bare frame or fork.

rgppgr

There is a columbus stamp at the bottom of down tube. I can make out four long tail feathers and some numbers under the stamp.

rgppgr

Forget that about no marking.

gster

Here's a Mexican Condor.
A very common bike here and still available new (Benotto)

Single speed, rod and lever brakes.
Probably early 60's.

rgppgr

Thank you for the response. I've since found that the Mexican Condor bicycles were earlier than mine which is in the mid 70"s. It may be a private Proteus parts build. All the Condor bikes I've found don't match my lugs or fork, etc. It is Columbus SL tubing with Campy drop outs. Everything on it could have been purchased as parts from Proteus and assembled.

GrainBrain

Is there a shim or something inside the seat lug? What's the actual frame/fork weight?

1 Lugnut

Lugs look similar to those on my Swiss Mondias with their the long tangs ‘cept mine have cutouts.

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/Swi...ondor_main.htm

rgppgr

That is the seat Columbus SL seat tube. The frame with Campy cups still in the head weighs 1.9 kg. The Columbus steer tube front fork weighs 735 grams. I was told this was fairly light weight for a early to mid 70's bike.