tetonrider

riders can't really control who else shows up to race. small races give very few points -- big fields with WEAK racers would give more points, but that's hard to predict.

there's ALWAYS been a participation element: if you race as much as you can and take calculated risks, EVENTUALLY they pay off.

maybe people will start saying "i got my cat 1 upgrade in 30 races (but it took 3 years)" instead of "i got mine in one 12-month period / 125 races"?

road racers will always be a bit catty and talk about the guy who got points from an early season race vs winning the gila. it turns out to be a very small community, and i've had people come up to me -- out of state -- and talk about the "legitimacy" of someone else's upgrade. really...who cares?

things do seem messed up in women's cycling--seems like in a number of races i've seen, you go from cat 4/beginner to racing pro/1/2/3 as the next step, and it is harder to find enjoyment for many.

grolby

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with this. Of course I am a special snowflake, because for me I feel that taking the upgrade when I had the opportunity did a lot more for my development in terms of racing skills than knocking around Cat 4 for another 3-6 months would have. There are lots of 1/2/3 races in TN, as a proportion of total available races, and being able to enter them was such a leap in understanding race craft for me despite my not being remotely competitive in those races most of the time. And that was helpful in Cat 3 races, too. Overall, if the experience upgrade is detrimental from a developmental point of view, USAC should eliminate it.

This is correct. The scheme is (R->CX): 5->5, 4->5, 3->4, 2->3, P/1->1. Like the experience upgrade, whether or not a rider SHOULD upgrade based on their road category, or whether they should do so to the maximum extent allowed, is open to some debate.

tetonrider

thanks! i was disappointed, i'll admit, that you didn't paste a screenshot like @hack was kind enough to do -- or at least deep-link to page 22. ;-)

some of that is new, i think. i don't think there was reciprocity from road to MTB 4 or 5 years ago. (fwiw, i felt there SHOULD have been--if you mess up in a MTB race, you only hurt -- literally -- yourself.)

around here our CX races are usually A/B or A/B/C.....and one can race A if they are a 3, so it just tends not to matter, or at least not matter much.

globecanvas

Next time I google something for you, I'll try to do a better job

Ygduf

I've never heard anyone talk about it outside of this forum. People in a race care only about how you're able to ride/race that day. What you did in a higher category on a different day couldn't matter less.

gsteinb

I did read a certain outspoken coach positing that Cat 1s should be forced to downgrade unless they actively did P1 races.

TheKillerPenguin

IMO, if you can show up and hold your own in your assigned category, you can tell naysayers to chew on rocks.

Edit: even if you can't anymore, you still got there. Nobody gets gifted cat 1, even the easy way is the hard way.

mattm

"Back in my day we had to earn cat 1/everything was uphill and headwinds both ways"

Ygduf

In the hours between being told I'd broken vertebae and finding out they actually weren't broken I was texting my coach asking if I should put in for my cat 3 downgrade. Thankfully I held off for the second scan!

gsteinb

I don't really know what any of that means :/

wut

gsteinb

nice edit!

I think you know the guy.

TheKillerPenguin

now i'm curious, but there's only like one or two guys I can think of that'd say that.

TheKillerPenguin

Crap, I'm in trouble.

tetonrider

i agree--but never underestimate the self-righteousness of the entitled masters racer!

tetonrider

i'd appreciate that!

tetonrider

ridiculous.

maybe 2's should downgrade to 3 if they don't do p/1/2 races, too.

tetonrider

your confidence in how much USAC cares about rider development is higher than mine.

tetonrider

unfortunately, that's not actually true. i've seen guys given extra rope because of how they conduct themselves and others get chased down for stuff from prior races and/or off-the-bike.

sounds like you might be amazed by what riders talk about--even from norcal i think sometimes people forget the the number of people reading forums/strava/etc. can be significantly larger than the # posting/commenting. it's easy to do.

Wylde06

To add to my goals..

Contest the sprints and finishes in the club A races. A lot of the guys that race in the A's used to race back when there was a team locally and are 1s and 2s. So that should be fun.

mattm

Even so, I think Fudgy's point is that during a race (when it really counts), nobody cares how you got there, only what you do while you're there.

Sure there is talk about so and so before/after the race, but it doesn't really change much during the race.

Ok, I'm done putting words in his mouth..

hack

I offered up the screenshot to help you out since you said you went through the tech guide from last year while suggesting my memory of the race events was lacking

Regarding the the cross reciprocity, I know of a couple decent cross guys that mostly race unsanctioned that jumped up a couple cats to race out of town marquee cross events.

hack

Is there a cross to road equivalency upgrade route as well? Cat 1 in cross gets auto-upgraded to 2 on road or is it a one way street for the cross over?

tetonrider

the screenshot WAS helpful--i did a web search for the prior tech guides and then scanned them + searched for "cut" and "limit" in the document...came up empty. when i searched for "130%" it came up. i thanked you and apologized, too.

i was curious if your memory was different than what happened as i've never seen a rider who finished just completely left off the results list. that software that they all use makes it easy to list DNFs as well as riders finishing after the time cut. just seemed odd, which is why i asked for clarification that what you said was actually correct. genuine curiosity.

Ygduf

the part you are addressing here has little to do with method of upgrading and lots to do with performance or perceived ability to perform during the race. I'm not arguing that. Knowing guy's strengths and weaknesses and knowing who you can trust to work with vs. who you maybe shouldn't isn't talking about upgrading on experience vs. points.

hack

I thought the " " was sufficient. No qualms from me <

I THINK the director said a couple other guys missed the cut line, too but dont remember that 100%. I thought he showed up on a preliminary TT results sheet, but not on GC and then not on final TT. Not 100% on that either as I was tired and napping when it was shaking out