Pulled the Touring Trigger!
12-08-12, 07:39 PM
#26
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I really admire what you are doing chef. I'm excited for you as you make plans for this new adventure. Can't wait to read the reports of your shakedown trip and the subsequent longer tours. Very, very cool!
12-08-12, 07:48 PM
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I strongly suggest you try your tent, pad, and quilt in your back yard a few times with a few different overnight temps, prior to striking off. Setting up that tent, and finding out how you sleep on the pad/quilt combo will be valuable...trust me on this.
12-08-12, 08:21 PM
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12-08-12, 09:41 PM
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Ditto that! Also, as I've suggested before, an overnight trip would help you get a feel for what works and doesn't work. For example, I tend to carry more clothing than many bike tourists do. That's because I've discovered I'd rather spend less time washing bike shorts in the sink and suffer the extra few ounces of towing weight.
12-08-12, 09:55 PM
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Peter's home is on bikeable roads, although I never imagined Ohio to have as many hills as it does. He was an agreeable host while I was there in 2011.
12-08-12, 10:02 PM
#34
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Chef, that's a pretty nice list of stuff for whatever trip you plan! I've only ridden the GAP once (did it as a credit card tour) and had a blast, even with two of the three days in the rain. So what's the plan and when are you going? I wanna read the blog as you go.
Just curious - that tent is rated for up to three people - are you going solo?
Just curious - that tent is rated for up to three people - are you going solo?
12-08-12, 10:27 PM
#35
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Neil B does have a valid point for sure. I should explain further:
-I have never invested in anything and not utilized it for it's intended purpose
- I have invested and researched a lot (and still continue to research) on equipment and touring. Yes to some peoples point (Indy specifically) that I can just jump on the bike and go tour. Does not work for me. I research, think, ask questions and research more before going.
- Neil B: When I drove out here from the west coast, I was here two days and then went out and bought a road bike and mtn bike on the same day. I knew the road bike was my weekend bike and the mtn bike I would turn into the commuter. I believe I met you in July or August (or something like that) and the rest is history. I ride all the time with my road bike. I commute a lot with my mtn bike. What does this prove? 1) That I love cycling. 2) That I follow through with my intended intents and goals.
Though you are right, this does not prove that I will go on a tour, like it, and go out on another tour. But based on my goals, commitments, enthusiasm and what I have done in the past, it is very likely that I will love touring.
I have not shared detailed plans in this forum about where I will go first and will not until I need to ask questions, seek advice, or until I am done planning it. But I can share:
1) The shakedown will be in May with at least one overnight trip.
2) May will bring some longer distance riding.
3) June will be a week long self supported tour
4) September or October might bring a third tour.... maybe GAP
This is what I know now. Could it change? Heck yes.
Does this prove that I will tour? You know me better then most on this forum Neil. We have shared some rides together and lunches together. I ask you this...... What do you think? (and yes, it is a rhetorical question)
-I have never invested in anything and not utilized it for it's intended purpose
- I have invested and researched a lot (and still continue to research) on equipment and touring. Yes to some peoples point (Indy specifically) that I can just jump on the bike and go tour. Does not work for me. I research, think, ask questions and research more before going.
- Neil B: When I drove out here from the west coast, I was here two days and then went out and bought a road bike and mtn bike on the same day. I knew the road bike was my weekend bike and the mtn bike I would turn into the commuter. I believe I met you in July or August (or something like that) and the rest is history. I ride all the time with my road bike. I commute a lot with my mtn bike. What does this prove? 1) That I love cycling. 2) That I follow through with my intended intents and goals.
Though you are right, this does not prove that I will go on a tour, like it, and go out on another tour. But based on my goals, commitments, enthusiasm and what I have done in the past, it is very likely that I will love touring.
I have not shared detailed plans in this forum about where I will go first and will not until I need to ask questions, seek advice, or until I am done planning it. But I can share:
1) The shakedown will be in May with at least one overnight trip.
2) May will bring some longer distance riding.
3) June will be a week long self supported tour
4) September or October might bring a third tour.... maybe GAP
This is what I know now. Could it change? Heck yes.
Does this prove that I will tour? You know me better then most on this forum Neil. We have shared some rides together and lunches together. I ask you this...... What do you think? (and yes, it is a rhetorical question)
Yes, we did meet and ride together in July 2011. At that time and in subsequent rides I noticed two traits:
1.) you clearly had extensive experience as a road cyclist and as a transportational cyclist;
2.) you, like many people here and elsewhere, get hung up on gear as a solution to problems major, minor, and microscopic.
Throwing money at a road bike is such a common trait among roadies I wasn't surprised you did it, but I also knew that you'd done Seattle to Portland in the past, so you had a taste for long distance road riding. You have no experience touring aside from reading posts here and talking to bike tourists named Neil. And touring, I've discovered, about making do and using what you've got. Roadies talk about buying carbon-fiber bottle cages to save an ounce; bike tourists talk about making panniers out of empty kitty litter containers. Heck, I didn't even have a rear rack on my first tour - Neil Fein can tell you about my carrying a backpack on a 100 mile round trip to Red Bank, NJ. It would be a shame if you got so caught up in getting touring "perfect" that you missed that touring can never be so.
Anyway, I made my point. And if I didn't care I wouldn't have posted.
12-08-12, 10:48 PM
#36
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Golly gosh, Neil_B's original post in this thread was NOTHING compared with the cauldron of flame that erupted over one of chefisaac's innocent inquiries on the Touring forum about what stoves to consider acquiring. That thread was actually finally locked. And Neil_B wasn't involved at all!!!
chef's considering each of his options carefully as he goes along. There is nothing wrong with that. He has the disposable income to make whatever buying decision he wants. Some will align with our own experiences, some won't.
The selection of a three-person tent might seem odd to some, but one of the considerations was having his wife along on some of his adventures, and trust me, a three-person tent is best for two people plus gear. It also seemed to rate as one that would accommodate his own height.
He will form his own opinions on his acquisitions as he goes along. Some he will adore, some he might even come to loathe. No-one can get it right the very first time. Even those of us who have been doing this for 15 years or more can still get some pieces of equipment wrong. Just ask me about some tyre pumps we have on our current travels (they fall into the loathe category)
chef's considering each of his options carefully as he goes along. There is nothing wrong with that. He has the disposable income to make whatever buying decision he wants. Some will align with our own experiences, some won't.
The selection of a three-person tent might seem odd to some, but one of the considerations was having his wife along on some of his adventures, and trust me, a three-person tent is best for two people plus gear. It also seemed to rate as one that would accommodate his own height.
He will form his own opinions on his acquisitions as he goes along. Some he will adore, some he might even come to loathe. No-one can get it right the very first time. Even those of us who have been doing this for 15 years or more can still get some pieces of equipment wrong. Just ask me about some tyre pumps we have on our current travels (they fall into the loathe category)
12-08-12, 11:25 PM
#37
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Firstly, thank you for taking my comments in the spirit they were intended, and not as the Bike Forums peanut gallery viewed them.
Yes, we did meet and ride together in July 2011. At that time and in subsequent rides I noticed two traits:
1.) you clearly had extensive experience as a road cyclist and as a transportational cyclist;
2.) you, like many people here and elsewhere, get hung up on gear as a solution to problems major, minor, and microscopic.
Throwing money at a road bike is such a common trait among roadies I wasn't surprised you did it, but I also knew that you'd done Seattle to Portland in the past, so you had a taste for long distance road riding. You have no experience touring aside from reading posts here and talking to bike tourists named Neil. And touring, I've discovered, about making do and using what you've got. Roadies talk about buying carbon-fiber bottle cages to save an ounce; bike tourists talk about making panniers out of empty kitty litter containers. Heck, I didn't even have a rear rack on my first tour - Neil Fein can tell you about my carrying a backpack on a 100 mile round trip to Red Bank, NJ. It would be a shame if you got so caught up in getting touring "perfect" that you missed that touring can never be so.
Anyway, I made my point. And if I didn't care I wouldn't have posted.
Yes, we did meet and ride together in July 2011. At that time and in subsequent rides I noticed two traits:
1.) you clearly had extensive experience as a road cyclist and as a transportational cyclist;
2.) you, like many people here and elsewhere, get hung up on gear as a solution to problems major, minor, and microscopic.
Throwing money at a road bike is such a common trait among roadies I wasn't surprised you did it, but I also knew that you'd done Seattle to Portland in the past, so you had a taste for long distance road riding. You have no experience touring aside from reading posts here and talking to bike tourists named Neil. And touring, I've discovered, about making do and using what you've got. Roadies talk about buying carbon-fiber bottle cages to save an ounce; bike tourists talk about making panniers out of empty kitty litter containers. Heck, I didn't even have a rear rack on my first tour - Neil Fein can tell you about my carrying a backpack on a 100 mile round trip to Red Bank, NJ. It would be a shame if you got so caught up in getting touring "perfect" that you missed that touring can never be so.
Anyway, I made my point. And if I didn't care I wouldn't have posted.
You are right on about your observations when we first rode. I would add a 3rd: focused on speed (too much really).
The first observation is right on with the except of the extensive part. But I was ready to jump in with both feet for sure. It has changed my life in so many ways that it's hard to put into words.
The second observation can be easily seen as so. Though with the first two bikes I purchased, it was not about the equipment and gear as much as it was about the brand. Very brand loyal to Giant and still am. Been in the family seen I was born and my parents rode them in their earlier life.
I would say that I am more picky about what I want versus more thrifty folks when it comes to riding which is currently long distance and commuting. I admire the thrifty (and what I mean by that is more McGiver (sp?) like and can build and craft stuff). I do not have this trait which is a little disappointing but thats beside the fact. For commuting, it was easy. I got a relatively cheap bike, converted over to a commuting bike, got the stuff I needed and called it a day. With the road bike, carbon was not important to me but rims were. Got a few additional stuff and that covered that.
With touring, it really is a shot in the dark Neil. At this time, I have some money from a catering job and a restaurant consulting job which is what (and am doing now) I planned on investing for touring. I knew going into this that my road bike that I have now i did not want to convert over to a touring bike. And the mtn bike commuter is more geared toward the short commute and a few things are now affixed to it that cannot be removed easily. I also knew that touring was day in/day out on the bike and getting the right fit was important. I shopped around for an off the shelf bike, looking into Trek, Surly, and a few others. I was disappointed in the lack of touring bikes at the shops I went to here in NJ, PA, and DE. Wont ever forget about the time the guy at a shop told me to take the LHT out for a spin. The frame would fit my wife. It was very awkward to say the least. When I got back, the guy asked if I wanted to order one in my size. I asked him if he could order it and if I could try before buying. He said no and that I would have to pay for it. To me, that is a load of crap. I see and understand their concern but for me to pay for a bike and not even get to try it first is crazy. I am not even wanting to pay a restocking fee that some of the other shops offered.
So going into the realm of touring, I know I needed a bike that fit me well. I can honestly say that the two bikes I have now are OK but not great. After talking with many people about custom made touring bikes, I questioned the need to spend the time and money on one but gave it a fair shot and talked with the owner and his builder about it. We talked for a solid hour while shooting questions back and fourth. After that hour, I was sold. Now yes, I will agree on this "How the he11 does one get a custom touring bike when they have no clue what the want in one?" I agree to this and yup, taking it as a shot in the dark and thats OK. Perhaps its my attempt to live on the wild side. lol
I have leveraged many people on this journey thus far when it came down to the bike and also the equipment. I may or may not love certain things and thats OK. I may love or hate touring and thats OK too. At the end of the day, it is an adventure. I remember one guy on the July 2011 ride telling me that it is not point A to point B that makes the trip, its the things encountered along the way that sews the journey into a colorful quilt.
I do take the "caught up in perfect" to heart, making sure that I realize that the choices I am making regarding bike and equipment is just a starting point and that things will change.
Some people approach things with the bare minimum and realize, through experience, that they need to add certain things to make the next trip better. I take a different approach which is to research, ask questions, research more, get what I think I need to make the trip enjoyable (so in this case it means comfortable when sleeping, not getting soaked and not feeling like everything weighs a ton).
I do realize that things will change. I will love this, really like these, and hate those. I will caulk this up to experience but there has to be a baseline somewhere which is what I am aiming for.
Lastly, the third point which is focusing on riding fast all the time. I had an epiphany on an attempt to ride a century in September. I passed apparently passed by an apple orchard and in September the smells are divine but on this century attempt I did not see any apple orchard, any farm sign and did not smell any of the apples. I got to mile 71 and bonked with a terrible headwind. As a friend pulled up about an hour after I stopped, she said "did you smell those wonderful apples back there at mile 43?" I had no flipplin clue that I passed an apple orchard. I did not see no smell the apples. This was eye opening and led me to make a vow to myself to slow down, smell the roses, take pictures, have fun and take in my surroundings. I do not ride with clubs much anymore but still enjoy it though mainly for the social aspect. On hilly rides, I typically go by myself because I am slow and OK with that. So I would say, Neil, this is a huge step in the right direction.
12-08-12, 11:31 PM
#38
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Golly gosh, Neil_B's original post in this thread was NOTHING compared with the cauldron of flame that erupted over one of chefisaac's innocent inquiries on the Touring forum about what stoves to consider acquiring. That thread was actually finally locked. And Neil_B wasn't involved at all!!!
chef's considering each of his options carefully as he goes along. There is nothing wrong with that. He has the disposable income to make whatever buying decision he wants. Some will align with our own experiences, some won't.
The selection of a three-person tent might seem odd to some, but one of the considerations was having his wife along on some of his adventures, and trust me, a three-person tent is best for two people plus gear. It also seemed to rate as one that would accommodate his own height.
He will form his own opinions on his acquisitions as he goes along. Some he will adore, some he might even come to loathe. No-one can get it right the very first time. Even those of us who have been doing this for 15 years or more can still get some pieces of equipment wrong. Just ask me about some tyre pumps we have on our current travels (they fall into the loathe category)
chef's considering each of his options carefully as he goes along. There is nothing wrong with that. He has the disposable income to make whatever buying decision he wants. Some will align with our own experiences, some won't.
The selection of a three-person tent might seem odd to some, but one of the considerations was having his wife along on some of his adventures, and trust me, a three-person tent is best for two people plus gear. It also seemed to rate as one that would accommodate his own height.
He will form his own opinions on his acquisitions as he goes along. Some he will adore, some he might even come to loathe. No-one can get it right the very first time. Even those of us who have been doing this for 15 years or more can still get some pieces of equipment wrong. Just ask me about some tyre pumps we have on our current travels (they fall into the loathe category)
I know there will be things I love, like, and hate but thats part of the adventure. We have our unique challenges and mine are being big, no experience with touring, same with camping, and an eager heart to try! Should all be part of the journey. I know I will screw up and fail at things but I am good about dusting my bloody rock embedded knees off and trying again.
12-09-12, 12:08 AM
#39
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Rowan, thanks for the tip about the stove thread! I'd stopped reading Touring after one too many threads by indulged college kids seeking 'sponsors' to pay for their bike vacations. Obviously I missed the fireworks about stoves. What a joyous example of the Internet allowing people with nothing to say a place to say it.
Speaking of which, Iron Chef might enjoy a photo of my 'kitchen' when on a bike tour or camping trip:
That's an MSR Pocket Rocket - I think 20 some bucks from Amazon - and a cheap ultralite pot from Cabela's, IIRC. I'm preparing a packaged pasta with red sauce, to which I'll add pouched tuna. I served a nice instant grape juice, vintage unknown, from a sports drink bottle. I consumed the meal from the pot. While I was waiting for the pasta to cook I read a Saki short story or two; his tales of Edwardian idle rich were a refreshing contrast from the Pennsylvania woods.
The mesh clothing bag is from a dollar store and the blanket was ten bucks at a Columbia outlet.
The next morning as the sun rose I consumed tuna hash from that same pot and stove - packaged tuna mixed with canned potatoes. When I later met and camped with JAGraham I mentioned my tuna hash and she then volunteered to do all the cooking.....
Speaking of which, Iron Chef might enjoy a photo of my 'kitchen' when on a bike tour or camping trip:
That's an MSR Pocket Rocket - I think 20 some bucks from Amazon - and a cheap ultralite pot from Cabela's, IIRC. I'm preparing a packaged pasta with red sauce, to which I'll add pouched tuna. I served a nice instant grape juice, vintage unknown, from a sports drink bottle. I consumed the meal from the pot. While I was waiting for the pasta to cook I read a Saki short story or two; his tales of Edwardian idle rich were a refreshing contrast from the Pennsylvania woods.
The mesh clothing bag is from a dollar store and the blanket was ten bucks at a Columbia outlet.
The next morning as the sun rose I consumed tuna hash from that same pot and stove - packaged tuna mixed with canned potatoes. When I later met and camped with JAGraham I mentioned my tuna hash and she then volunteered to do all the cooking.....
12-09-12, 12:20 AM
#40
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Well, Iron Chef, I'd never been dropped by a novice on his first ride before I met you. And riding Seattle to Portland, or perhaps we should now call it Potland to Portland, is a sign of an experienced rider.
BTW speed of a rider on a bike tour is also a hot button topic. Slow riders like me are sick of being told they are doing it wrong because we are slow, and faster riders are sick of being told they don't understand touring because they cover more ground in a day. I have, unfortunately, criticized faster tourists for being fast, and I was wrong to do so. (IIRC I've even gotten into an argument with Machka on this topic, and I hope Rowan conveys my apologies.) Its fine to smell the apple orchard if you like, but its OK if you ride past it too.
BTW speed of a rider on a bike tour is also a hot button topic. Slow riders like me are sick of being told they are doing it wrong because we are slow, and faster riders are sick of being told they don't understand touring because they cover more ground in a day. I have, unfortunately, criticized faster tourists for being fast, and I was wrong to do so. (IIRC I've even gotten into an argument with Machka on this topic, and I hope Rowan conveys my apologies.) Its fine to smell the apple orchard if you like, but its OK if you ride past it too.
12-09-12, 05:52 AM
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Well, Iron Chef, I'd never been dropped by a novice on his first ride before I met you. And riding Seattle to Portland, or perhaps we should now call it Potland to Portland, is a sign of an experienced rider.
BTW speed of a rider on a bike tour is also a hot button topic. Slow riders like me are sick of being told they are doing it wrong because we are slow, and faster riders are sick of being told they don't understand touring because they cover more ground in a day. I have, unfortunately, criticized faster tourists for being fast, and I was wrong to do so. (IIRC I've even gotten into an argument with Machka on this topic, and I hope Rowan conveys my apologies.) Its fine to smell the apple orchard if you like, but its OK if you ride past it too.
BTW speed of a rider on a bike tour is also a hot button topic. Slow riders like me are sick of being told they are doing it wrong because we are slow, and faster riders are sick of being told they don't understand touring because they cover more ground in a day. I have, unfortunately, criticized faster tourists for being fast, and I was wrong to do so. (IIRC I've even gotten into an argument with Machka on this topic, and I hope Rowan conveys my apologies.) Its fine to smell the apple orchard if you like, but its OK if you ride past it too.
12-09-12, 06:11 AM
#43
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I want to see your new bike pictures!!!!
Will post the components later. Just met with them again last week to do some changing around. For the color, I am still debating. I have no clue on this. They have an in house detail artist so things are endless. Thought about incorporating something culinary on the frame but have no clue what that would be.
Will post the components later. Just met with them again last week to do some changing around. For the color, I am still debating. I have no clue on this. They have an in house detail artist so things are endless. Thought about incorporating something culinary on the frame but have no clue what that would be.
I (briefly) considered doing a custom build with a local guy. I've also noticed his bikes in Bicycle Times in their NAHBS after-reports. Plenty of pictures; one of them might spark an idea for you. One in particular was dubbed "Orange Blossom Special" and had some simple little logo work in musical notes. Could translate well for you?
https://www.lugoftheirish.com/Shamroc...-_Road.html#17
(Hit NEXT and PREVIOUS to see other views of the bike).
12-09-12, 06:22 AM
#44
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You probably already saw it, but my build post is HERE. Pictures I have up are quick and dirty. Will wait for a sunny day then get a real camera out.
I (briefly) considered doing a custom build with a local guy. I've also noticed his bikes in Bicycle Times in their NAHBS after-reports. Plenty of pictures; one of them might spark an idea for you. One in particular was dubbed "Orange Blossom Special" and had some simple little logo work in musical notes. Could translate well for you?
https://www.lugoftheirish.com/Shamroc...-_Road.html#17
(Hit NEXT and PREVIOUS to see other views of the bike).
I (briefly) considered doing a custom build with a local guy. I've also noticed his bikes in Bicycle Times in their NAHBS after-reports. Plenty of pictures; one of them might spark an idea for you. One in particular was dubbed "Orange Blossom Special" and had some simple little logo work in musical notes. Could translate well for you?
https://www.lugoftheirish.com/Shamroc...-_Road.html#17
(Hit NEXT and PREVIOUS to see other views of the bike).
Thanks for the links too!
12-09-12, 06:33 AM
#45
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I was nervous about dropping that much coin on a bike I'd never ridden, but the only thing I adjusted after coming home was tire pressure.
12-09-12, 06:44 AM
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We ordered it, but fit was guaranteed so I was at no risk. Bike shop worked with me to make it a custom fit. I brought in my current ride, and they took measurements from that setup and measurements from my body. We talked about what I liked and didn't like about the current ride, and dialed in things from there on paper. I go back after 100-200 miles for a 2hr fitting session and dial in the rest (part of the deal).
I was nervous about dropping that much coin on a bike I'd never ridden, but the only thing I adjusted after coming home was tire pressure.
I was nervous about dropping that much coin on a bike I'd never ridden, but the only thing I adjusted after coming home was tire pressure.
You got a great deal on the guarantee!
12-09-12, 06:46 AM
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I guess I should explain the speed thing. I went to a club meeting last week and the guest speaker road from Portland, Oregon to Rehobeth Beach, DE in 38 days which is 3,500 plus miles. When I heard that, I had a hunch he didnt have time to really experience the things I have read about in other peoples stories and accounts regarding a trans am tour. When he stood up to speak, that was the first thing he said. He said he regretted doing it so fast because they often did not have time to see the sites and meet the people. Ride, eat, sleep... for 38 days with only one partial day off due to rain. Good presentation but he finished it by saying that he really wished he would have took longer so he could experience more of the sites and such.
Thirty eight days is a very short time to cross the US. My own cross country tour, now shelved indefinitely, was pegged at three months. Then again I rarely planned a day above sixty miles if I recall correctly. That was a concession to my speed, but also to allow time to explore, which is what your speaker didn't allow. My trip through Delmarva in 2009 featured days of 40-50 miles, which allowed me to stop where I wanted to, and where I needed to. I sent out a text message mid afternoon one day saying I was "doing it Clyde-style - I am stopping for a sno-cone." And three years later I still remember that sno-cone.
12-09-12, 08:29 AM
#48
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This turned into a very interesting thread, thanks Neil and Isaac for the great read. When I first commented that you (Neil) must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed I didn't realize that you two had a history, so my apologies for jumping on your comment. But now you two have me thinking about touring also. Just thinking, mind you, but thinking nevertheless.
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12-09-12, 08:48 AM
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This turned into a very interesting thread, thanks Neil and Isaac for the great read. When I first commented that you (Neil) must have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed I didn't realize that you two had a history, so my apologies for jumping on your comment. But now you two have me thinking about touring also. Just thinking, mind you, but thinking nevertheless.
"If you are someone who is scared, nervious or worried about what you look like on a bike.... I would strongly suggest setting up a time and place to ride withNeil. He is awesome to ride with, great conversation, and a great down to earth person. Neil made me realize that, at the end of the day, it doesnt matter when you look like cause you are there for you.... your health... and to have fun."
So yes, we do have a history. But if he'd been a stranger I'd have written much the same post. I tend to write the things that need to be written because I don't subscribe to the community-based reality of Bike Forums.
Bike touring is a lot of fun, but as Indyfabz has posted, it can be having fun while suffering.
12-09-12, 09:51 AM
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Also, if buying touring gear doesn't make you a tourer. Does posting advice on a forum about cycling (but not doing much actual cycling, even pre-surgery) make you a cyclist?
You do give me a chuckle as you cant just let things go. Please leave it alone Neil as not everything has to be about you.
Anyways, back to the very informative thread.
Last edited by magohn; 12-09-12 at 10:13 AM.