Listening to Music via Headphones?
#176
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The "you" I'm writing about is not the above poster, just a general you. I happen to agree with what is quoted.
To me, if you're on a MUP that has pedestrians on it, you should only be traveling at a speed similar to other pedestrians, the fastest of which are runners. In other words, same speed as the other users.
I don't bother hailing people I'm passing. For one thing, the MUPs I generally ride on are alongside pretty busy roads, so the road noise covers my voice, unless I yell at the top of my lungs. I don't like doing that. Even then, they can't hear if listening to their ear buds (which they have every right to do btw - for chrissakes, they're out for a walk, why shouldn't they?) Not to mention, pets on leashes and kids who are, well, kids. All have every right to be on the trail and all have the right to expect you to be safe.
Like the poster above, I've had people dart in front of me whether I call out or not. The safe thing is just pass at a speed that you can stop or swerve, just as if you were a runner on the path passing walkers.
That is very slow, by the way. Sometimes you actually have to slow to their speed and follow until you can get by safely (at that point you can probably talk to them in a conversational manner to get their attention if need-be).
So I just behave as if I'm just another user at the same speed - I SLOW THE F DOWN to a safe speed, and just pass safely at the speed to make the pass reasonably quickly, but as safe as need be. No need to call your pass in those circumstances, just be safe. If someone yells at you for not calling out, you could stop and explain why you didn't or just give a friendly wave and continue on.
MUPs are MULTI USE. Live with it. Be safe. If you don't like it, get on the street.
If I have a good sight line and see no other users, I go as fast as I want until I do, or until I lose the sight line.
To me, if you're on a MUP that has pedestrians on it, you should only be traveling at a speed similar to other pedestrians, the fastest of which are runners. In other words, same speed as the other users.
I don't bother hailing people I'm passing. For one thing, the MUPs I generally ride on are alongside pretty busy roads, so the road noise covers my voice, unless I yell at the top of my lungs. I don't like doing that. Even then, they can't hear if listening to their ear buds (which they have every right to do btw - for chrissakes, they're out for a walk, why shouldn't they?) Not to mention, pets on leashes and kids who are, well, kids. All have every right to be on the trail and all have the right to expect you to be safe.
Like the poster above, I've had people dart in front of me whether I call out or not. The safe thing is just pass at a speed that you can stop or swerve, just as if you were a runner on the path passing walkers.
That is very slow, by the way. Sometimes you actually have to slow to their speed and follow until you can get by safely (at that point you can probably talk to them in a conversational manner to get their attention if need-be).
So I just behave as if I'm just another user at the same speed - I SLOW THE F DOWN to a safe speed, and just pass safely at the speed to make the pass reasonably quickly, but as safe as need be. No need to call your pass in those circumstances, just be safe. If someone yells at you for not calling out, you could stop and explain why you didn't or just give a friendly wave and continue on.
MUPs are MULTI USE. Live with it. Be safe. If you don't like it, get on the street.
If I have a good sight line and see no other users, I go as fast as I want until I do, or until I lose the sight line.
And no, I generally don't slow to a jogging speed when I pass. That's absurd, and is contrary to the practice on any MUP I've ever ridden on.
#177
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Pity the cyclist who misses the sounds of a hermit or wood thrush. It may just be me, but the bird sounds are my soundtrack to revel in. On long climbs beside streams the babbling is also a joy.
#178
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Situation awareness is important. Slowing down even if the jogger seems to be going straight is important. Giving plenty of space is important.
as you said though, its uncommon. At some point, we all have to decide how much we will alter our activities for uncommon possible results. This applies to cycling in the road, passing people on MUPS, etc etc.
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Well sure, that's a possibility.
Situation awareness is important. Slowing down even if the jogger seems to be going straight is important. Giving plenty of space is important.
as you said though, its uncommon. At some point, we all have to decide how much we will alter our activities for uncommon possible results. This applies to cycling in the road, passing people on MUPS, etc etc.
Situation awareness is important. Slowing down even if the jogger seems to be going straight is important. Giving plenty of space is important.
as you said though, its uncommon. At some point, we all have to decide how much we will alter our activities for uncommon possible results. This applies to cycling in the road, passing people on MUPS, etc etc.
Absolutely, situational awareness is vital as you keep pointing out. I'll come to a dead stop if I think I really can't pass safely. But I don't understand how someone can emphasize situational awareness on the one hand and then say they don't understand how cutting off one of the senses people use to comprehend situations is a problem.
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I do it all the time[listen to music]. Often that is really helpful for getting through a miserable ride.
Fact is that if a car is coming up behind you unsafely, there is nothing you can do. With headphones you still can see what is in front of you and that is safe enough.
Fact is that if a car is coming up behind you unsafely, there is nothing you can do. With headphones you still can see what is in front of you and that is safe enough.
FWIW, see my preceding post (link) on this thread in reply to this question:
Can someone...anyone...explain how knowing a car is behind you makes any difference whatsoever? Please?
I've asked this in other threads and never gotten a response. In other words, what do you do with the information? What do you do differently? Are you pulling off the road or something? It seems to me that if you do anything differently based on whether or not a car is behind you is just a recipe for disaster, because you're going to eventually get it wrong.
I've asked this in other threads and never gotten a response. In other words, what do you do with the information? What do you do differently? Are you pulling off the road or something? It seems to me that if you do anything differently based on whether or not a car is behind you is just a recipe for disaster, because you're going to eventually get it wrong.
To the OP: Have you ever been hit by a vehicle? There is usually a couple of seconds once you hear the vehicle to move over closer to the roadside if one is available.
I use those few seconds for that purpose. Some of us do not have good hearing to begin with. I count on those few seconds for my safety. So what is most important in your life - music, or the possibility of avoid getting hit?
I use those few seconds for that purpose. Some of us do not have good hearing to begin with. I count on those few seconds for my safety. So what is most important in your life - music, or the possibility of avoid getting hit?
...I use the Garmin Varia radar unit. I like the warnings that I get and I like seeing the alerts on my Garmin head unit.
BUT, I still use an eyeglass mounted mirror.
When I get an alert, I quickly check my mirror to see what’s coming my way.
Cars now have a similar system, there is an audible alert when cars are nearby, then you check the mirrors to confirm the location of nearby vehicles.
I like the peace of mind.
BUT, I still use an eyeglass mounted mirror.
When I get an alert, I quickly check my mirror to see what’s coming my way.
Cars now have a similar system, there is an audible alert when cars are nearby, then you check the mirrors to confirm the location of nearby vehicles.
I like the peace of mind.
Thanks for your reply @eja_ bottecchia. It appears you have an advanced system for monitoring traffic behind you. I wrote my series of posts, without reference to listening devices, to answer the earnest question of @MattTheHat,
I linked to this real-time video "Cyclist Rear Ended at 55mph"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYMKp71vW-I
And asked the counter-question“At what point do you realize that the upcoming car ain't gonna swerve out of your line of travel?”
Is it at your limit of detection of 153 meters, my suggestion of about 27 meters...when or if? I advocate for a mirror to decide,...
Not to be contrarian, @eja_ bottecchia, but rearward monitoring does not bring me peace of mind, but rather sets up a tension of monitoring behind and looking forward down the road to consider, perhaps subconsciously, a strategy to handle the imminent situation....
For me, peace of mind briefly sets in when I note there is no one behind me, and I can concentrate solely on the upcoming road and intersections.
I linked to this real-time video "Cyclist Rear Ended at 55mph"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYMKp71vW-I
And asked the counter-question“At what point do you realize that the upcoming car ain't gonna swerve out of your line of travel?”
Is it at your limit of detection of 153 meters, my suggestion of about 27 meters...when or if? I advocate for a mirror to decide,...
Not to be contrarian, @eja_ bottecchia, but rearward monitoring does not bring me peace of mind, but rather sets up a tension of monitoring behind and looking forward down the road to consider, perhaps subconsciously, a strategy to handle the imminent situation....
For me, peace of mind briefly sets in when I note there is no one behind me, and I can concentrate solely on the upcoming road and intersections.
#181
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I have experienced that hearing, while beneficial in some situations, isnt a necessity for safety.
When cycling without ear buds and music, I hear wind. Thats almost all I hear- wind.
Its probably because I am so strong and fast.***
- on gravel roads, I hear wind and tires rolling over stone.
- on paved roads I hear wind and some car noise from their engines and tires.
- when no cars are around in paved roads I hear wind noise.
- on mups I hear wind noise.
My hearing is compromised when riding due to wind's white noise, so listening to music in the background just doesn't make me feel safer or dull my usable senses.
Head on a swivel. I look ahead and behind before passing on maps or changing lanes on roads. Otherwise, its straight ahead in a consistent line so I am predictable to others on the MUP or road.
see and be seen these two things are what I view as necessary for safety/situational awareness.
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Every MUP I've ever ridden on has posted rules requiring announcing so I don't agree with much of what you're saying. I announce, I don't pass unless the oncoming lane is clear, and I literally don't recall ever having an issue with a jogger in many thousands of miles of MUP riding. It is the voluntarily deaf non-announcing bicyclists that cause the problems. They can cross a path randomly and rapidly.
And no, I generally don't slow to a jogging speed when I pass. That's absurd, and is contrary to the practice on any MUP I've ever ridden on.
And no, I generally don't slow to a jogging speed when I pass. That's absurd, and is contrary to the practice on any MUP I've ever ridden on.
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well also a lot of riders are jerks while riding, taking up the entire center lane.
sure, you have the right, but if some guy messes up you’re screwed.
I always ride as far to the right as I can. So that even if the car isn’t paying attention perfectly, he won’t hit me.
So it makes no difference if I detect a car behind me because I am always as far to the right as I can be. Any further and I’ll be in grass.
sure, you have the right, but if some guy messes up you’re screwed.
I always ride as far to the right as I can. So that even if the car isn’t paying attention perfectly, he won’t hit me.
So it makes no difference if I detect a car behind me because I am always as far to the right as I can be. Any further and I’ll be in grass.
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To the OP: Have you ever been hit by a vehicle? There is usually a couple of seconds once you hear the vehicle to move over closer to the roadside if one is available. I use those few seconds for that purpose. Some of us do not have good hearing to begin with. I count on those few seconds for my safety. So what is most important in your life - music, or the possibility of avoid getting hit?
What's more important, not getting hit or listening to music? In my area I don't find one has anything to do with the other.
I will admit that a distracted or impaired driver could take me out. But I can't do anything about that...short of moving off the road for every car that passes. My reflexes are not fast enough to get completely off the road in the milliseconds that pass between the time I figure out that the driver is distracted and they close on me. I mean, how do you even know they're distracted until it's obvious because they've run over you?
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Valid concern for sure.
I have experienced that hearing, while beneficial in some situations, isnt a necessity for safety.
When cycling without ear buds and music, I hear wind. Thats almost all I hear- wind.
Its probably because I am so strong and fast.***
- on gravel roads, I hear wind and tires rolling over stone.
- on paved roads I hear wind and some car noise from their engines and tires.
- when no cars are around in paved roads I hear wind noise.
- on mups I hear wind noise.
My hearing is compromised when riding due to wind's white noise, so listening to music in the background just doesn't make me feel safer or dull my usable senses.
Head on a swivel. I look ahead and behind before passing on maps or changing lanes on roads. Otherwise, its straight ahead in a consistent line so I am predictable to others on the MUP or road.
see and be seen these two things are what I view as necessary for safety/situational awareness.
I have experienced that hearing, while beneficial in some situations, isnt a necessity for safety.
When cycling without ear buds and music, I hear wind. Thats almost all I hear- wind.
Its probably because I am so strong and fast.***
- on gravel roads, I hear wind and tires rolling over stone.
- on paved roads I hear wind and some car noise from their engines and tires.
- when no cars are around in paved roads I hear wind noise.
- on mups I hear wind noise.
My hearing is compromised when riding due to wind's white noise, so listening to music in the background just doesn't make me feel safer or dull my usable senses.
Head on a swivel. I look ahead and behind before passing on maps or changing lanes on roads. Otherwise, its straight ahead in a consistent line so I am predictable to others on the MUP or road.
see and be seen these two things are what I view as necessary for safety/situational awareness.
I'm not claiming that sound is my primary sense in situational awareness, but on a MUP where people are, by rule, supposed to be announcing their passes, it's baked into the cake.
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I don't see why this is so difficult. I call out whenever I am passing. But I also don't assume they have heard me so I give them as much space as is safe. When I move to pass, I check over my shoulder in case of traffic or someone else, faster than both of us, is also passing me. Then pass. It's also nice to give a little wave and say hi when you go by.
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One earbud (right ear only) is my preferred for solo rides. I use Skullcandy Method for a long list of reasons: durable in the worst conditions, good mic to take calls and send & receive text, easy to keep the unused earbud secure, not heavy; neck loop design keeps weight off your ear, easy to use buttons - even with winter gloves, ...
My general thoughts on biking with music is the same as driving with music, it's only dangerous when it's too loud. I keep the volume low enough I can easily talk with people while riding.
I have never had a conflict with another trail/road user because of my music ... but I've encountered far too many people that are a problem because their music is too loud and they can't hear a bell or verbal alerts or anything.
My general thoughts on biking with music is the same as driving with music, it's only dangerous when it's too loud. I keep the volume low enough I can easily talk with people while riding.
I have never had a conflict with another trail/road user because of my music ... but I've encountered far too many people that are a problem because their music is too loud and they can't hear a bell or verbal alerts or anything.
I never listen to music, only podcasts/talk. Never had a problem. Years ago I used the really nice/expensive Bose headsets but the cost and lack of durability stopped that habit, plus it's hard to hear what's goiing on around me.
Only problem is that when it gets busy in traffic, I stop listening to the talk, so I have to play it all again when off my bike. Also short podcasts like John Bachelor mean I have to stop to get the next one started and scroll out of the ads.
I find music blows my ears out so I never listen to it. Hey I'm 67.
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My exact thoughts to this question. I experience the futility of "On your left" on most rides because of ear buds.
#189
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i don’t ride in traffic, so might have a different opinion if commuting daily...naw, probably still listen (with transparency enabled AirPod Pros), just like I listen to music when driving.
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There's no one size that fits all on this. Definitely do what you are comfortable with and enjoy. Today I enjoy listening to audio books while riding. In the 80's I was rocking out with ELO on a Sony Walkman...Hold on tight to your dreams....
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All the best, Julius in Ohio
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Safe or unsafe? I’ve seen some other cyclists with air pods and other headphones on and though what a great idea to listen to some tunes while riding. But then I realized maybe it’s not such a good idea? Can’t hear if cyclists are coming up behind or if there’s cars or sirens. Basically can’t hear anything at all!
What are your thoughts on this and if you do listen to music, any tips to be able listen and keep safe at the same time?
What are your thoughts on this and if you do listen to music, any tips to be able listen and keep safe at the same time?
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I don't see why this is so difficult. I call out whenever I am passing. But I also don't assume they have heard me so I give them as much space as is safe. When I move to pass, I check over my shoulder in case of traffic or someone else, faster than both of us, is also passing me. Then pass. It's also nice to give a little wave and say hi when you go by.
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Safe or unsafe? I’ve seen some other cyclists with air pods and other headphones on and though what a great idea to listen to some tunes while riding. But then I realized maybe it’s not such a good idea? Can’t hear if cyclists are coming up behind or if there’s cars or sirens. Basically can’t hear anything at all!
What are your thoughts on this and if you do listen to music, any tips to be able listen and keep safe at the same time?
What are your thoughts on this and if you do listen to music, any tips to be able listen and keep safe at the same time?
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I used to be an aerobics instructor and understand the motivational potential of music during a workout. However, on the road as well as off-road, I want to be as fully engaged with the ride as possible and never desire audible distractions. A part of getting outdoors is to connect with what's around me. Without the distraction of music (or a rubbing derailleur) I'm in contact with the other sounds including approaching cars. You have to be blind - or totally distracted - to see oblivious riders putting themselves in danger because they can't hear. Besides, having both ears blocked is illegal (at least in California) when riding.
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Safe or unsafe? I’ve seen some other cyclists with air pods and other headphones on and though what a great idea to listen to some tunes while riding. But then I realized maybe it’s not such a good idea? Can’t hear if cyclists are coming up behind or if there’s cars or sirens. Basically can’t hear anything at all!
What are your thoughts on this and if you do listen to music, any tips to be able listen and keep safe at the same time?
What are your thoughts on this and if you do listen to music, any tips to be able listen and keep safe at the same time?
And I've got three things to say about riding with headphones.
1. It is DANGEROUS. Even on paths, let alone on streets and highways.
2. I briefly tried, back when the no long gone ipod was a new thing. ANd discovered two things about that. It wasn't that good of a listening experience (and I was using way better headphones than apple's buds), it worried me when i couldn't hear everything around me, and the MOST important reason of all: One of the reasons I LOVE about riding my bike is that it gives me a chance to be alone with my own thoughts. Riding a bike is a (or at least it can be and is for me) a SIMPLE pleasure. I don't need anything else (plus: it often gives me the chance to listen to the music that's bouncing around in my head).
Last edited by dkatz1; 05-11-20 at 12:09 PM.
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Bose Frames
Bose Frames during the day, nothing at night. With the frames your ears are open to the world and you can listen quietly. They work especially well with a runner/cyclist headband.
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Simple answer is if it's safe do it. I'd never do it in traffic but there are long, sweeping, wide bike lanes where it would be safe. I've read the sports page from San Simian to the first hill to Big Sur and felt totally safe. It depends on the circumstances. Stay safe/Have fun.
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If it’s a solo road ride, like a commute, or just getting some miles in, I’ll often have music. Picking songs with the right tempos can also help you hold a particular pace or cadence.
When I do, it’s only one ear, usually the curb side, depending if I’m riding or running.
If its any any kind of group (2 or more) or a high traffic situation, like downtown, then I’ll ditch the headphones.
The pair i use for cycling has has an over-the-ear hook, so it doesn’t need to seal tightly, and the volume/pause controls are right on the pod, so I don’t need to fumble around for a cord or the phone to turn it down or off. (Or louder )
When I do, it’s only one ear, usually the curb side, depending if I’m riding or running.
If its any any kind of group (2 or more) or a high traffic situation, like downtown, then I’ll ditch the headphones.
The pair i use for cycling has has an over-the-ear hook, so it doesn’t need to seal tightly, and the volume/pause controls are right on the pod, so I don’t need to fumble around for a cord or the phone to turn it down or off. (Or louder )
That's like taking a shower while wearing a raincoat.
I'm much happier without..