Chain waxing question
#26
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#28
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You're almost certainly correct.
I was going from stuff like this
.
From https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/wor...to-wax-a-chain
That could well be something particular to Speed Wax, or just complete b*ll*cks.
Looks like there's some concern about too much paraffin vapour as that's flamable.
I was going from stuff like this
.
According to Molten Speed Wax, the temperature of the wax should not exceed 93
degrees celsius / 200 degree fahrenheit, both for safety and performance reasons.
.degrees celsius / 200 degree fahrenheit, both for safety and performance reasons.
From https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/wor...to-wax-a-chain
That could well be something particular to Speed Wax, or just complete b*ll*cks.
Looks like there's some concern about too much paraffin vapour as that's flamable.
I can imagine that at higher temperatures you might start to distill off some oils or sovlents in the paraffin or even cause some oxidation. But I can't imagine that it would be have a big effect unless maybe it's left at high heat for a very long time. The wax should melt well before it hits 200F anyway. So it makes sense that there's no need to get it any hotter. Also, the crock pots have a lot of thermal mass. So one chain probably wont drop the temperature of the wax much. This isn't rocket science.
Getting to the OP's question, they recommend a 1 1/2 qt to 2 qt Crock Pot/slow cooker.
#29
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The pot I use is a 1.5 quart I paid $20 for on ebay. Holds 1+ lb of wax. I heard somewhere that you want the chain to warm up thoroughly, so I put the chain on top of the cold wax and then turn the pot on.
#30
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You're almost certainly correct.
I was going from stuff like this
.
From https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/wor...to-wax-a-chain
That could well be something particular to Speed Wax, or just complete b*ll*cks.
Looks like there's some concern about too much paraffin vapour as that's flamable.
I was going from stuff like this
.
According to Molten Speed Wax, the temperature of the wax should not exceed 93
degrees celsius / 200 degree fahrenheit, both for safety and performance reasons.
.degrees celsius / 200 degree fahrenheit, both for safety and performance reasons.
From https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/wor...to-wax-a-chain
That could well be something particular to Speed Wax, or just complete b*ll*cks.
Looks like there's some concern about too much paraffin vapour as that's flamable.
As to the “performance reasons”, those claims are totally bogus. Nothing is going to happen to wax at 200°F to change the character of the wax. Essentially, there are no “oils or solvents” in the wax that could be distilled off. Gulf Wax is food grade that is edible and meant to be used to seal foods. It’s very pure.
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#31
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I use a modification of a method that was put forth years ago by a guy named Garth of the Bicycling magazine forums.
I heat up the chain in the oven to about 190 degrees in a pie pan, sprinkle it with a little powdered graphite, then rub it with a cake of wax. Turn it over and repeat.
Works fine, I don't have to deal with a pot of hot wax, and the most time-consuming part is waiting for the oven to come up to temperature.
I heat up the chain in the oven to about 190 degrees in a pie pan, sprinkle it with a little powdered graphite, then rub it with a cake of wax. Turn it over and repeat.
Works fine, I don't have to deal with a pot of hot wax, and the most time-consuming part is waiting for the oven to come up to temperature.
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Heh, I remember inspiring this in another thread.
According to Crock pot, both high and low "stabilize" at 209 *F.
Slow Cooker Cooking Tips | Crockpot® (crock-pot.com)
According to Crock pot, both high and low "stabilize" at 209 *F.
Slow Cooker Cooking Tips | Crockpot® (crock-pot.com)
#33
Full Member
Chain waxing is an all-day process for me, although the hands-on time is short. I turn on the pot at low, which takes a few hours to melt the wax (plain canning wax plus unwanted candles etc), give the chain a brush to get loose crap off, then coil it up and lower into the wax in a small basket. Leave it in there for 30-60 min, while I'm doing other stuff, giving the basket an up/down jiggle when I remember. Pull the chain, hang it up to cool and put in the next one. I usually do 3 chains at a time - my actual input is maybe 15 min for the whole process.
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The bike lubricants are’t all that high priced but, more importantly, they aren’t as thick as chainsaw oils. Phil’s Tenacious Oil is that thick but it’s damned messy.
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If I ask about using sausage vs beef in my spaghetti recipe, would you post about how you quit eating italian food and tell me how to make tacos?
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oops.
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#40
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Whelp, I found a 2 quart crock-pot for $5.13 at my local thrift shop. Used the Silca system: new Shimano chain de-greased with their chain cleaner, rinsed with water, dried for a while, then immersed in their ‘secret blend’ wax (has tungsten disulfide in it, among other things) at 200 degrees Fahrenheit for about an hour with occasional swishing, cooled, and now drying on a sheet of plastic. Cleaned the rest of the drivetrain. First ride with a waxed chain tomorrow, woo-hoo!
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Whelp, I found a 2 quart crock-pot for $5.13 at my local thrift shop. Used the Silca system: new Shimano chain de-greased with their chain cleaner, rinsed with water, dried for a while, then immersed in their ‘secret blend’ wax (has tungsten disulfide in it, among other things) at 200 degrees Fahrenheit for about an hour with occasional swishing, cooled, and now drying on a sheet of plastic. Cleaned the rest of the drivetrain. First ride with a waxed chain tomorrow, woo-hoo!
#42
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Ha! I’m not expecting that much! But I do like the Silca ‘system’. After the initial investment in wax, the downstream costs should be minimal: when a re-waxing needs to be done, clean the chain in boiling water and re-wax using the same batch of wax. Should last me for several years I expect. I will get a second chain to streamline the process. I ride about 2500 miles per year. I have the luxury of not having to ride in wet weather.
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Biker Pete : There is no need to use any water (at any temperature). Doing so just increases the likelihood of rust on the chain. Best use one to two rounds of odorless mineral spirits to degrease, air dry, then into the wax.
After waxing I hang my chain over the open crock pot to let any molten wax drip back into the Crock Pot. You may want to do the same given your use of the $$$ Silca wax.
After waxing I hang my chain over the open crock pot to let any molten wax drip back into the Crock Pot. You may want to do the same given your use of the $$$ Silca wax.
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#44
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Biker Pete : There is no need to use any water (at any temperature). Doing so just increases the likelihood of rust on the chain. Best use one to two rounds of odorless mineral spirits to degrease, air dry, then into the wax.
After waxing I hang my chain over the open crock pot to let any molten wax drip back into the Crock Pot. You may want to do the same given your use of the $$$ Silca wax.
After waxing I hang my chain over the open crock pot to let any molten wax drip back into the Crock Pot. You may want to do the same given your use of the $$$ Silca wax.
Ha! I’m not expecting that much! But I do like the Silca ‘system’. After the initial investment in wax, the downstream costs should be minimal: when a re-waxing needs to be done, clean the chain in boiling water and re-wax using the same batch of wax. Should last me for several years I expect. I will get a second chain to streamline the process. I ride about 2500 miles per year. I have the luxury of not having to ride in wet weather.
It is overly complicated with unnecessary steps that are done for no reason. Mineral spirits is a degreaser and a damned good one! There is no need for any step past doing a mineral spirits wash. You can do 2 washes if you like but there really is no need. If you really have to do two steps, put the water based degreaser first, followed by a water rinse, followed by an alcohol chase, and then polish it off with mineral spirits. The reason for that particular order is to do any water based steps first because water and mineral spirits are incompatible. Water based degreasers have surfactants…soap to regular people…in them that changes the chemistry of water so that water can dissolve some water insoluble compounds. The amount of nonpolar material that can dissolve in a water based degreaser is limited to the carrying capacity of the surfactant in the water and is also limited by the amount of surfactant in the water. Diluting it reduces the carrying capacity.
That limited carrying capacity of a nonpolar compound also means that far more of the surfactant has to be used to do the same job. Think dish soap in a sink. At some point the bubbles go away which means that the soap..again, a surfactant…has glommed onto all the oil that it can and it needs more soap and fresh water. The volume of mineral spirits needed to do the same job is a tiny fraction of that needed for a water based degreaser .
The surfactant also has to be removed. If not removed the surfactant will sit on the metal doing what surfactants do…grabbing onto nonpolar compounds. Alcohol will remove some of it but it would be best to use clean water to flush which means more volume of cleaners needed…usually many times that of the initial degreaser mixture to remove it.
I’ll get into the procedure now. He says that the chain needs to be soaked overnight in mineral spirits. That is completely unnecessary. Degreasing with mineral spirits takes minutes especially if you agitate it. Put it in a bottle…I use old Gatorade bottles…shake it hard for until your arm gets tired, about 30 seconds, and take the chain out. That’s all that is necessary. No ultrasonic bath needed nor heat needed…see above. The chain could go from there into the wax melt directly, although I would probably leave the chain in a sunny spot for about an hour so as to keep from putting flammable material into a hot wax melt. The wax melts above the flash point of mineral spirits and going above the flash point of any solvent is to be avoided.
He states at about 1:20 in the video that “mineral spirits speeds up the rust process if there is any water present”. That’s news to this chemist’s ears. I’d like to know the mechanism for this accelerated rusting in mineral spirits. If the worry is about moisture, it can be removed with a water soluble solvent like acetone or alcohol. But, no, mineral spirits won’t make your chain rust.
He also mentions “degassing” several times. There is zero need to degas anything in chain cleaning. There are, occasionally, reasons to degas solvents but simple chain cleaning isn’t one of them. Ultrasonic cleaning vibrates the object being cleaned tor remove any stubborn particles that might be on the object but even that is unnecessary if you have a clean object to begin with. A new chain is clean and an old waxed chain isn’t dirty enough to worry about. Oiled chains are a different matter entirely.
Overall, the “Silca system” is the same as all the other procedures out there…unnecessarily complicated with a lot of useless work. A good procedure should use as few steps as necessary and each step should have some justification for doing it. Chain cleaning can be done in a single step, be it a new chain or a gunky, old winter chain. And when the chain needs to be rewaxed, it doesn’t need any further cleaning. Don’t over think it.
Finally…I know this is going on for far too long…it’s a chain! Chains are cheap and chains will wear out. There’s no need to spend an inordinate amount of time maintaining a chain nor any need to spend an inordinate amount of money on a chain. $40 for a pound of wax is a silly amount of money to spend. Silca can claim that their wax is all secret and will make you a winner of the Tour de France just by using it but they are blowing smoke up your nether regions. A one pound block of Gulf Wax at Safeway costs $7 and will do 99.9% of what Silca’s wax will do.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Last edited by cyccommute; 01-10-24 at 05:48 AM.
#45
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These are the two videos I watched explaining the Silca ‘system’.
Yes, I get it, there is some hocus pocus involved and they want to sell their products. But I do like what I heard. After the initial investment, it seems like it will be reasonably cost effective over the next several years. I ride about 2500 miles per year and I now have two chains. The maintenance work I anticipate to be quite simple. Plus, I do enjoy working on the bike in addition to riding it every day. I live in SW Florida so there is a lot of sunshine and warm weather. I don’t ride in wet weather.
Yes, I get it, there is some hocus pocus involved and they want to sell their products. But I do like what I heard. After the initial investment, it seems like it will be reasonably cost effective over the next several years. I ride about 2500 miles per year and I now have two chains. The maintenance work I anticipate to be quite simple. Plus, I do enjoy working on the bike in addition to riding it every day. I live in SW Florida so there is a lot of sunshine and warm weather. I don’t ride in wet weather.
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They aren't THAT cheap, nor are the chainrings, cassettes, and pulley wheels they interact with. They are also arguably the single most important part of your bike transferring energy from you to the road.
If you aren't performance oriented, use budget chains, and are content with your current component life, then you're right - waxing is an expensive hassle. but for those of us who do chase performance, use high end components, and ant to get the longest possible life out of those components, then waxing is an easy and cost effective way to get performance and reduce wear.
If you aren't performance oriented, use budget chains, and are content with your current component life, then you're right - waxing is an expensive hassle. but for those of us who do chase performance, use high end components, and ant to get the longest possible life out of those components, then waxing is an easy and cost effective way to get performance and reduce wear.
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#47
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Impressions from first ride (9 mile loop in 30 minutes)…….waxed new chain is very quiet during pedaling and during shifting. Kinda nice! Still some excess wax removal needed after this first ride.
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While I agree that there is no need for a boiling water wash, there is also no need for the odorless mineral spirits step for subsequent waxing. The wax doesn’t get contaminated like oil based lubricants do. On subsequent waxings, the wax is the solvent and is all that is needed to clean the chain. Just drop it in molten wax and be done with it.
Now of course whatever comes off the used wax chain in OMS would most likely also come off in paraffin. But the pre-rewaxing slosh in OMS keeps the actual wax clean.
Last edited by SoSmellyAir; 01-11-24 at 01:48 AM.
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Wow, that's pretty cool. I happened to have a spare Thermopen, which is accurate, and probably overkill for this application.
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leave it for a few more rides. the little wax dust is kind of cool looking and when you decide to wipe it off it almost disappears like magic.
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