J.Higgins 

I'm a huge fan of Yokozuna compressionless cables, and all of my bikes are equipped with them. Expensive, but so worth it imho.

DropBarFan

My Jagwire Ripcord housing is 2-3 yrs old but I think it includes kevlar.. So I had the one previous rear brake housing failure I mentioned & now it appears to be happening again despite attention to details. Another BF poster noted similar problem with pricier Jagwire KEB-SL Kevlar housing.

IMHO mechanical disc-brake touring bikes should use split housing with bare cable on down tube & chain stay, but full-length housing is an easy way to cut cost. Another reason to try hydraulic brakes I think. I read that some models have initial lever travel but once they actuate the braking is much easier & better.

lmike6453

I am learning more about 1x12 drivetrain in the past week and just had a thought. Would a 1x12 full suspension mountain bike serve just as well as a commuter vs a 2x10 rigid steel frame, considering that they are the same weight and same tires?

Reason I ask, is because I plan to buy a full suspension mountain bike and saw that the Salsa Deadwood (1x12) is about the same weight as a Salsa Fargo. I'm not sure if I'd get the Deadwood yet, but just something that I have noticed as I'm in the market for a full sus mtb:

DEADWOOD 29+ XO1 EAGLE | Salsa Cycles

wsteve464

If you are still looking for the gravel/touring bike seriously look at the Salsa Cutthroat. I really like mine for both road and dirt. If you decide on one and don't want a 1x drive train get the red 2017 2x with hydro discs. The 2018s (3 models) are are all 1x.

lmike6453

I am seriously considering canceling my Fargo order in favor of getting a Cutthroat after thinking that 28.5 lbs is a bit heavy for using it as a commuter.

But then I worry that a 1x11 won't provide enough range. Do you think I should try it and upgrade to a 1x12 if necessary?

danmyersmn

The Full Suspension MTB will be less efficient for commuting. You can lock out the suspension but the flat bar upright position vs. a drop bar geometry isn't going to be as efficient for communing. This may not be an issue depending on how long your commute is.

For myself I wouldn't worry about 1x11 vs 1x12. You can swap around the rear cog gear combo's if needed to go larger/smaller on both sides of the cluster to dial in what you are looking for.

Doing a brief read of this: Shaking it Down on the Salsa Cutthroat | The Radavist It sounds like the cutthroat is a fantastic bike and may be perfect for what you are looking for.

lmike6453

Thanks! I'm cancelling the Fargo order, it's decided.

For everyone still eating popcorn throughout this thread, it's now the Salsa Cutthroat vs the rest.

What would compete with the Cutthroat? A 21 lb, drop handlebar, 2.25 inch mtb tire for both bikepacking and commuting. I can't find the head tube angle spec on it, anyone know?

danmyersmn

I don't know what kind of weight you are planning to carry but you might look at the Cosmic Stallion. I thought you were trying to narrow down your list, not add to it...

Introducing the All City Cosmic Stallion - BIKEPACKING.com

geoffs

If I was buying a bike that would have the flexibility to do road and gravel and keeping the price under $4k, I'd build the following:
Habanero Cross Frame custom made with tyre clearance for 29" x 2.5 using a Whiskey No9 15mmm fork.
3T ergonova drop bars
Thomson 4 bolt stem
Thomson seatpost
Sram Force levers
Force WiFli rear derailleur with Goatlink
Force Front derailleur
TRP Spyre brakes
crankset 48-32 with 11-42 cassette
Wheels - DtSwiss 240 hubs, Sapim Strong spokes and Blunt 35 rims

I built up a similar bike for my wife and but with some lighter parts as shes 50kg

DropBarFan

I assume you're talking about the Cutthroat Rival 1 since the other Cutthroat, X9, is double-chainwheel. So, Cutthroat Rival 1 is a cool $4K. REI has discounted 2017 Diamondback Haanjo EXP Carbon to $1,520. 10 kg/22 lb. Only 'drawbacks' are 58 mm tire vs 64mm on Cutthroat & 3x9/bar-end vs 1X/brifter. Tire difference doesn't seem that much & for the price one could replace drivetrain & still come out ahead on price, eh?

If I had more time to ride I'd snag on of those Haanjo's in a heartbeat. Heh, I almost suspect a Diamondback accountant will eventually find out that the price is too insanely low vs the competition.

lmike6453

Yes the hunt for this bike of mine is making me do that face irl lol

Cool bike, although it's 45mm tires rather than having 2.25 on the Cutthroat. I couldn't find a weight spec on their specs

lmike6453

Yep the Cutthroat Rival 1 is the one I'm interested in. The Diamondback is only 27.5 tires and I'd like a 29er for getting around easier.

wsteve464

As far as upgrading if the 1x11 to 1x12 upgrade is even close to going from 2x10 to 2x11 with SRAM it will take new brifters as well as a new derailleur and cassette, due to the indexing of the shifter to the cassette. If you look at the 2018 Cutthroat pics on the Salsa site you will see a black square near the bottom of the seat tube I believe that is a front DR mount. You could go to a 2x11 and may only need a new crank front derailleur and a shift lever added to the left front brifter, not sure the lever addition is possible and may require a new front brake/shifter assy. Either way not cheap.

Look for a 2017 red Cuthroat 2x11 hydro discs. Here is one https://www.bikeexchange.com/s/bikes/salsa?page=4

I am 6'3" and bought an XL which I found to be a bit big, changed to a shorter stem and non-offset seat post now it fits great. With platform pedals my XL came in at 25lbs. BTW it is the X9 version, the green one

wsteve464

Head tube angle sm/md 70 l/xl 71

CUTTHROAT FORCE 1 | Salsa Cycles under Geometry

jsigone

the cutthroat looks nifty but 4k is steep for me. I'd personally get a nice hard tail and add bar ends, dual purpose bike vs single purpose rig. But I have a decently nice cross bike with disc brakes. I don't intend to tour offroad single track with so UCI 35c max tires is fine for me. Hell the 28c gravelkings were awesome for me last week.

lmike6453

I am now taking back this statement and leaning away from the Cutthroat after learning more about what a commuter should be.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I've gathered is:

- Steel should be preferred over carbon for commuter durability.
- Cutthroat will have 'steal me' written all over if I ever need to lock it up.
- Cutthroat is racey and lacks utility, where it only should handle lighter touring loads.
- As many of you have stated, the Cutthroat price is a bit outrageous at $4k vs a $1440 Fargo.

With that being said, I'm trying not to fret about the 28.5lb weight of the Fargo, but still am open to suggestions for possibly something more lightweight.
I enjoy looking forward to reducing rolling resistance and a smidge of weight by going tubeless tires on it.

I've been looking up the ones you guys mentioned plus more, and most of all are 40ish mm tires vs the 2.4" the Fargo provides, with the ability to run studded thicker tires for a Winter season bike. The search continues...

alias5000

I think you are going to have hard time finding a bike that is fully specialized in single-track-off-road-dont-steal-me-lightandfast-road-commuting-winter-biking.
As for winter biking, I would really think twice. I'm north of where you are, but I would never take a bike into winter slush and dirt for commuting duties that is worth more than 500$, unless it gets a perfect cleaning afterwards every time (=commuting time x 2). Winter grid and (potential) rust is going to wear your components much faster. Once you get to riding in snow, things will slow down anyways, so a super fast bike will loose some of its advantages.

Regarding attractiveness to thieves: it really depends in which environment you are. There are good locking mechanisms that can make a bike a hassle to steal (15mm stationary chain+Ulock, lock skewers, weird shaped bolts...). If you are in a low-theft rate environment, you may get away with standing out.

lmike6453

Great points. Ok so I'll ditch thinking about riding it in the winter, which is then leaving me leaning back toward something with skinnier tires / lighter weight for commuting....but still able to do light touring.

It looks like this realm of bikes is the likes of something like a:
- Niner RLT9 Steel
- Salsa Vaya
- Specialized AWOL Comp / Expert

That way I'll be more optimized for speed for most of the bike's usage.

jefnvk

You should pick a bike and go out and ride it. While I'm not saying research isn't a good thing, it can also be a bad thing if it leads to information overload paralysis and indecision that is seemingly happening here. Spec sheets only tell you so much. Worst case, after a few months you know what you don't like about it, you sell it, and then go replace it with something that fixes those problems.

For everyday riding, the practical differences between my 21# lightweight road bike and my 27ish# Mazama/ADV3.1 is pretty much nil. Yes, the lightweight bike feels more spirited, and on good pavement with wide open spaces is faster, but in a stop-go non-speed-concerned environment those differences are wiped out.

lmike6453

Thanks for mentioning this so early in the thread, 1 month ago. Tbh, at the time, I did not want to believe that I should get something with skinnier tires...but that was more of my ignorant self.

As research has brought me around and I have a few bikes narrowed down, the Niner RLT9 Steel is a big contender.

Why the 3 star over the 2 star, or 4 star? Trying to figure out what star I would get to compare to other bikes on my list.

jsigone

This would be temping at nearly half off over the steel RLT Niner BSB Rival 1X Jenson Bike > Bikes > Cyclocross & Gravel Bikes | Jenson USA

lmike6453

Nice find! Thanks for sharing this. However is carbon good for a commuter that will get dinged alot?

Also they have this: Niner BSB Ultegra Jenson Bike > Bikes > Cyclocross & Gravel Bikes | Jenson USA

DropBarFan

One could purchase a reasonably-priced Alfine/Gates (flat-bar) commuter that would be nice for even winter use; & then a separate 'fun' bike, combined price $3K or lower.

jsigone

Depends on how your commute is. Do you have to lock your bike? Would I lock a 3k bike out of my sight...no way. I commute but take my bike into my office building. Hence I can commute on anything I have.

saddlesores

if i'm following the story so far....

you bought two bikes.
you ordered then cancelled two others.
you're looking to buy at least one more.

have you ridden the two you have yet?