redlude97

I'm going to assume that in this subforum that people are working out hard. In that case replacing glycogen stores is more important to recovery than protein for a cyclist, so that they can train hard the following day or 2.

wolfchild

I assume the same thing, and I wasn't referring to anybody on this list.

I'd argue that protein is just as important as carbs after a hard ride...Your body is burning certain percentage of protein during exercise and it needs to be replaced.

redlude97

You don't actually burn much if any protein during a ride except for some you may ingest. Your body isn't going to preferentially catabolize muscle during a ride as long as you have't bonked because amino acids are a poor source of providing energy. Protein only needs to be provided after a hard ride to repair and rebuild muscle but not a significant amount of that occurs during cycling.

Carbonfiberboy 

I put up this post over in 50+, but I doubt you saw it: Nutrition, nutrition, nutrition

What do you think, especially that study at the bottom? No, not "preferentially catabolize muscle" but there does seem to be breakdown which must be repaired.

KraneXL

The potential for harm can be catastrophic. pasteurization just makes it a lot safer for wide scale storage and distribution. Homogenization however, just makes it look good. The sugar supplants the need for all that fat. Besides, the caloric count would be so high few people would buy it. In fact, its actually much more important, since unlike carbs, it is a necessary nutrient. Restoring the carbohydrates are necessary only for fast energy reproduction, and of course, protein sparing.

Seattle Forrest

This.

Sounds delicious the way you make it. Sometimes that's great after a long hike, to make a cup of hot chocolate from whole milk and cocoa, and enjoy the stars.

redlude97

agreed, I stated as much. But it isn't substantial especially if properly fueled prior to and before the training. Here's the key point from the article imo
protein just really isn't as much of an issue compared to carbohydrate replenishment, at least for those of us seriously training. Except for in the base season, operating constantly in a glycogen depleted state will hurt your training more than being on the lower end of protein, and you have to remember that excess protein can't be stored, its converted via gluconeogenisis into glycogen or potentially into fat, so a protein heavy recovery drink following a big ride that is low on carbohydrates(ie milk with cocoa powder without sweetener) is going to be less effective for recovery than one with a closer to 4:1 ratio that is recommended for recovery. Big takeaway: dairy fat isn't bad for you, but neither are carbohydrates/sugars if you're training a lot and trying to maximize gains. Protein is important too but not as much as its emphasized and the amounts aren't that much really, ~120g/day for the avg cyclist: 2 chicken breasts and 2 cups of milk or so, not really that hard to do.

wolfchild

Here's a tip if ever decide to make it:.. Pure cocoa is very difficult to dissolve in cold milk, so make sure to use a blender.

Carbonfiberboy 

When I bake with cocoa, I find it dissolves easily in oil. I wonder what it would do in cream? This is that thread after all . . .

jsk

It's the temp that matters, which is why recipes that use cocoa will often specify to mix it with hot water.

Rollfast

But it's the explanation to the kids that it comes from brown cows that makes it the best.

Anything that makes a kid want to drink milk is a bonus. Not a lot of five year olds know the story of Popeye anymore.

KraneXL

A gross oversimplification. But I won't make a federal case out of it...this time.

OldTryGuy

Dairy fat is safe, and may help guard against strokes.

PSA from a 68yo surviving aggressive prostate cancer patient--- medical research is indicating that dairy, meat, eggs, sugars, foods high in choline are contributors to the growth of aggressive prostate cancer with avoidance being advantageous.

100% cacao

Hello07

There is no clear evidence that dairy fat is totally safe or not. It could be good for some people and could be bad for other. It health effects can vary individually. If you can tolerate it then it's OK but if can't then avoid it. Most of the studies go against it safety. It's really a complex topic which doesn't have any specific answer.

redlude97

all of a sudden you're a scientist? What is your phd in? Does the detailed answer involve "magic" again?

wolfchild

The dose is what makes dairy fat either healthy or unhealthy... Too much of anything can be bad...Too much fish oil can thin out your blood too much and affect blood clotting and too much antioxidants from plants can actually increase the risk of cancer instead of protecting you from cancer... The dose makes the poison.

Rollfast

Nothing is totally safe, and the death rate 100%

All arguments to the contrary are purely semantics.

KraneXL

Wasn't it these scientist that tried to convince us of reefer madness? Are you sure you want to use them as your argument?

In any event, your first question should be who funded the research and/or who stands to gain/lose from its acceptance/rejection? Finally, you don't need a PhD to gain from the research of others, or use the scientific method.

Seattle Forrest

@redlude97 isn't quoting scientists from reefer madness.

Dudelsack 

If you really want to see all-out warfare, look at some YouTube videos of ketogenic diets versus vegetable only diets. The comments get weird in a big hurry.

In medical school they told us that we had to commit to lifelong study because 50% of what we learned would later be proven bogus. This is especially true regarding nutritional issues.

My understanding is that dietary fats do NOT promote atherosclerosis EXCEPT for trans-fats and 6-omega fats, which everyone pretty much agrees are bad for you, especially trans-fats.

Ghee, EVOO, avocado oil, coconut oit, etc are probably good for you unless you are cursed with very bad genetics. Keep in mind that humans are pretty darned diverse so it is wise not to make too broad a statement.

Colnago Mixte

/ thread.

redlude97

Come on now, this is like me saying we shouldn't listen to "those doctors" becuase you quote hacks like Dr. Attia as gospel. Since you seem to be an expert on "reefer madness" can you quote me from the original paper the studies were based on? What was their conclusion?

So if we can't trust "doctors" or "scientists" because a single bad apple ruins the bunch, what are we left with? 99% of the time, the real issue is people taking scientific findings and conclusions in papers and extrapolating out or misinterpreting the results to suit their ends in news articles and youtube videos etc.

You mean like what I pointed out upthread? Any good scientist already knows this, that's the whole reason why a conflict of interest and funding source section is provided in every peer reviewed paper We can also determine when that matters, and how the funding source isn't an end all be all.
No, you sure don't. I know plenty of people who don't fit into this mould, but who can intelligently dip their toes and gain knowledge, but its easy to spot those that don't have the background knowledge or how to apply those methods to critique and analyze the data and what it actually says. The mark of a bright lad is their ability to not overstep with their own knowledge and to accept and acknowledge their own lack of expertise on various subjects and leave it up to the experts to fill in those gaps.

FrenchFit 

Your sci bro buddies have been busy on the subject, seems like a little science hysteria to me -- ... and I wonder who's been paying for these studies? (Note: I have no personal opinion in this matter...)

Research Showing the Harmful Effects of Marijuana Use

• 2018 study: Half of all first-time patients admitted for drug treatment worldwide are for cannabis, which therefore is even more than for heroin and cocaine combined, according to Psychological Medicine.
• 2017 study: Violence was two-and-a-half-times more likely from pot-smokers discharged from psychiatric hospitals than from others. Canadian researchers studying U.S. patients ruled out other possible explanations such as alcohol contribution or that perhaps "violent people use cannabis", published in Frontiers in Psychiatry.
• 2017 study: Bristol University researchers peer-reviewed study of 5,000 youths found that teens who regularly smoke pot are 26 TIMES more likely to begin using other drugs by age 21, and they're 37 TIMES more likely to be addicted to nicotine and 3 TIMES more likely to have an alcohol problem, all as compared to teens who don't smoke marijuana.
• 2017 study: The Journal of Neuroscience is identifying at the cellular neuron level how pot causes addiction and strongly interferes with the brain's sophisticated physiological reward system, which could be why Miley Cyrus and Woody Harrelson recently quit smoking dope.
• Source: Quest Diagnostics & WSJ 2017 study: Pot smokers are four times more likely to get a heart attack, etc., says a Case Western Reserve study of 210,000 cannabis smokers compared to ten million non-users.
• 2017 study: Colorado's Children's Hospital, in a post-legalization study, saw teens with marijuana intoxication or who tested positive for pot increase from 146 in 2005 to 639 in 2014. Unlike teens answering surveys, blood tests don't lie.
• 2017 study: Quest Diagnostics, mega workplace-testing lab, reports 2016 drug use up nationwide and single-year increases in the "legalization" states Washington, up 9 percent, and Colorado, up 11 percent.
• HLDI & CBS News2017 study: Highway Loss Data Institute reports that from 2012 to 2016 car crashes are up in decriminalization states. Oregon 4%; Washington 6%; Colorado 14%, as compared to neighboring states, including as THC-involved crashes soar.
• 2016 study: ALL 1,000 U.S. pot smokers studied in a Journal of Alzheimer's Disease paper had "low blood flow" throughout the brain and, tragically, restricted blood flow in the brain's memory/dementia region
• 2016 study: The UK's Daily Mail headlines their article on a paper in the journal Clinical Psychological Science, "The more cannabis you smoke, the more likely you are to be a loser"
• 2016 study: Research explains how pot mutates your DNA and why smoking it leads to disease including cancer, all validating a 2009 study
• 2016 study: Science News reports "Marijuana use weakens heart" from a paper in an American Heart Association peer-reviewed science journal and were about twice as likely as non-users to suffer depression, psychosis, anxiety disorder, etc.
• 2016 study: Just one minute of (even only) secondhand marijuana smoke may damage blood vessels, is three times worse for arterial walls than cigarette smoke, and endangers lungs and heart and can lead to attack, clots, and stroke, and yet, per the journal Nature, 16% of Colorado one-year-olds with bronchiolitis test positive for THC exposure. Tragic.
• 2016 study: The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) Ophthalmology reports that smoking pot harms eyesight by damaging the nerves that connect your retinas to your visual cortex
• 2015 study: Strong pot yields hallucination, paranoia & schizophrenia in a nearly a quarter (24%) of those newly diagnosed, per Lancet Psychiatry
• 2015 study: at Nature.com, current and former pot users perceive a false reality; impaired hippocampus harms memory used "to solve common problems and to sustain our relationships"
• 2015 study: 100 varieties of pot appear to "damage nerve fibres that handle the flow of messages across the two halves of the brain" per a study in Psychological Medicine
• 2015 study: JAMA Psychiatry reports that over the last decade, pot use in the U.S. more than doubled to nearly 10%, or 22 million people, with the huge study finding obvious signs of dysfunction from marijuana use in more than 7 million people
• 2015 study: Drug and Alcohol journal: pot impairs driving just like alcohol
• 2015 study: Pot harms brain imaging shows regarding learning and memory, presented at the Society of Nuclear Medicine and Molecular Imaging Annual Meeting
• 2014 study: in PNAS, pot users have shrunken brains and lower IQ
• 2014 study: 20 years of research reported on by WHO advisor Prof. Wayne Hall shows pot doubles mental impairment, psychosis; increases drop out, tobacco smoking, car crash, and rates of other illicit drug use.
• 2014 study: large Lancet study shows high schoolers 63% less likely to graduate, 8-fold increased odds of using other illegal drugs, and 7-fold increased likelihood of attempted suicide (like Heisman trophy winner's)
• 2012 study: Landmark study in PNAS: pot permanently lowers IQ
• 2012 study: Netherlands study of 2,000 teens show pot/psychosis link
• 2012 study: The journal Pharmaceuticals associates marijuana use with Cyclic Vomiting Syndrome
• 2010 study: Netherlands study shows marijuana may stunt fetal growth
• 2009 study: American Chemical Society reports, marijuana damages DNA and may cause cancer
• 2009 study: Pot during pregnancy predicts long-lasting neurobehavioural problems for the child
• 2008 study: Marijuana smoker faces rapid lung destruction, 20 years ahead of tobacco smokers
• 2007 study: New Zealand study of impact on lungs from one joint equaling three to five cigarettes
• 2007 study: Canadian study shows pot smoke contains higher levels of various toxins than tobacco smoke
• 2007 study: Harvard finds that marijuana component opens the door for cancer virus for Kaposi's Sarcoma
• 2006 study: The journal Neurology reports that marijuana causes learning and memory impairments
• 2005 study: New Zealand study reports habitual marijuana use strongly associated with car crash injury
• 2005 study: French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research shows pot doubling fatal crashes
• 2004 study: Hungarian Neuropsychopharmacologia journal reports schizoid psychosis from smoking pot
• 1989 study: In the U.S., from back when it was weaker, pot associated with impaired fetal growth
• Drugs.com: nursing mom smoking pot passes THC, etc. to her child; can harm baby's motor development
• By 2013 the Denver Post still hasn't come out of their stupor but at least they've noticed the fog. Sad but important insights on the long lasting harm from smoking pot as described by Dr. Kari Franson, professor from the University of Colorado's School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences. (Notice the Post uncritically quoting a pot dealer who speaks of his customers as his "patients".)

Seattle Forrest

This thread is about milk and cheese. Whole vs skim. Were you high when you wrote that?

redlude97

he didn't write it, he copied it from an agenda driven website https://kgov.com/negative-effects-of-marijuana-pot-research-shows-cannabis-is-harmful