Downside to a waterproof sleeping bag
#26
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lynchburg, Virginia
Posts: 76
Bikes: Novara Safari
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I see that you are in Virginia. I have toured thru there. You definitely have mozzies there. What bivy are you using?
F.Y.I., I looked up the "Ecoopro" sleeping bag on Amazon, and the $27. bag that comes up under that search is actually a Outad bag (rebranded) which I already have, I bought it about a year ago for $16. It is definitely not the same at all, (definitely not waterproof in any stretch of the imagination.) compared to the one I spotted on Ebay. I'm not sure if the ebay one is actually any more waterproof? Besides it not being waterproof, I dislike how short it is. I am only 5' - 6", and even with my knees bent, I have a hard time tucking deep inside it. (Cocoon style.)
F.Y.I., I looked up the "Ecoopro" sleeping bag on Amazon, and the $27. bag that comes up under that search is actually a Outad bag (rebranded) which I already have, I bought it about a year ago for $16. It is definitely not the same at all, (definitely not waterproof in any stretch of the imagination.) compared to the one I spotted on Ebay. I'm not sure if the ebay one is actually any more waterproof? Besides it not being waterproof, I dislike how short it is. I am only 5' - 6", and even with my knees bent, I have a hard time tucking deep inside it. (Cocoon style.)
Likes For Turkey222:
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bastrop Texas
Posts: 4,499
Bikes: Univega, Peu P6, Peu PR-10, Ted Williams, Peu UO-8, Peu UO-18 Mixte, Peu Dolomites
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 977 Post(s)
Liked 1,638 Times
in
1,052 Posts
One thing I learned in the military that applies well to minimalist campers...
It does not rain in the military. It rains on the military. And when it rains on the military, the military gets wet.
To be more direct, if its hard rain or prolonged rain you are going to get wet. You most likely already know this. I use a two man light weight tent call the Segaro that does not cost much. That way when I get it all messed up its not a big loss. I am a fat guy. So a two man allows me to get me and my gear inside the tent.
The Wenzel Starlight and the TexSport Willow Bend both come in at about 3.5 pounds and are cheap. The WIllow Bend is not much more than a rain-fly and ground cloth with mosquito doors. Both will not keep out hard rain, but a thin sheet of plastic over the top of them will. I am mentioning these cheap tents because these are the ones I have seen survive Boy Scout camp outs. That's not to say they looked very good a year or two out.
As for the original post I am sure there is a water proof sleeping bag that works but I have not seen one and I am pretty sure I could not afford it if it did exist.
It does not rain in the military. It rains on the military. And when it rains on the military, the military gets wet.
To be more direct, if its hard rain or prolonged rain you are going to get wet. You most likely already know this. I use a two man light weight tent call the Segaro that does not cost much. That way when I get it all messed up its not a big loss. I am a fat guy. So a two man allows me to get me and my gear inside the tent.
The Wenzel Starlight and the TexSport Willow Bend both come in at about 3.5 pounds and are cheap. The WIllow Bend is not much more than a rain-fly and ground cloth with mosquito doors. Both will not keep out hard rain, but a thin sheet of plastic over the top of them will. I am mentioning these cheap tents because these are the ones I have seen survive Boy Scout camp outs. That's not to say they looked very good a year or two out.
As for the original post I am sure there is a water proof sleeping bag that works but I have not seen one and I am pretty sure I could not afford it if it did exist.
__________________
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
No matter where you're at... There you are... Δf:=f(1/2)-f(-1/2)
#28
Bikeable
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times
in
73 Posts
I have done a lot of studying/looking at tents and have found a few things that in my opinion are a make or brake in regards to tents. A. Side entry: Once you try a side entry tent, you quickly realize that they are so much nicer/ easier to get in and out of, there's no going back to an end entry type. B. Color: because I do stealth camp/ wild camp/ sneak camp or whatever you wish to call it, I feel more hidden/safer in a (dark) stealth colored tent (certainly not yellow.) C. Pack size: Because the options for placing a tent are somewhat limited, pole length can play a factor in where one places the tent/ places the tent poles. D. Price: I see a lot of tourists with those (obserdly overpriced) Big Anus tents. Really good marketing, I presume. The first tent that I bought was a North Face Flashlight, back in the early 80's for over $300.(i think) Now, if you check into it, there are such nice tents for so much less.
I am actually really tickled by the Nature Hike: Hike & Bike One Man Tent (that I recently purchased). It's a freestanding, side entry type, has short 14" poles. It has 360 degree mosquito netting, which means the best air ventilation if you are stuck in Iowa (or anywhere else), when it's in the 90's at night and humid, and want maximum air flow. Comes with a beautiful stealth green rain fly, and for only $107. (usd).
I might just stay with the tent and give up on the rainproof bag?
I am actually really tickled by the Nature Hike: Hike & Bike One Man Tent (that I recently purchased). It's a freestanding, side entry type, has short 14" poles. It has 360 degree mosquito netting, which means the best air ventilation if you are stuck in Iowa (or anywhere else), when it's in the 90's at night and humid, and want maximum air flow. Comes with a beautiful stealth green rain fly, and for only $107. (usd).
I might just stay with the tent and give up on the rainproof bag?
#29
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times
in
51 Posts
I have a NatureHike Cloud Peak which I bought for possible kayak camping. It seems like a pretty good tent - especailly for the money. It's a knock-off of the Hilleberg Allak 2 ($1000+ tent).
So that NaureHike Cycling Backpack tent looks like a good bet and a definite step up from a bivy sac.
So that NaureHike Cycling Backpack tent looks like a good bet and a definite step up from a bivy sac.
#30
aka Timi
For six years (1978-84) I lived on the road, hitch-hiking year round, mostly near the Mediterranean sea. I had a sleeping bag and a sheet of garden plastic (1.75m x 2.5m x 2mm). No tent or sleeping pad. Never went to a campsite.
I slept on the doubled-over plastic and when it rained, pulled it up over me and my bag.
Nowadays I have a Hilleberg Soulo tent and a sleeping pad. The tent has an optional footprint. I bought two of them, sewed them together with an opening (like a sleeping bag liner) as a replacement for my garden plastic, as I still prefer to sleep under the stars on a beach, but by the Mediterranean there can often be a light rainfall in the early hours even in summer.
The footprints pack much lighter and smaller than my plastic sheet.
I slept on the doubled-over plastic and when it rained, pulled it up over me and my bag.
Nowadays I have a Hilleberg Soulo tent and a sleeping pad. The tent has an optional footprint. I bought two of them, sewed them together with an opening (like a sleeping bag liner) as a replacement for my garden plastic, as I still prefer to sleep under the stars on a beach, but by the Mediterranean there can often be a light rainfall in the early hours even in summer.
The footprints pack much lighter and smaller than my plastic sheet.
Last edited by imi; 06-03-21 at 12:24 AM.
#31
Senior Member
FWIW, If you go to a hooped bivy like the a OR Helium it weighs as much as a tiny tent with mesh and a fly that has much better ventilation.
The OR Helium weighs more than a bug bivy and tarp and has much poorer ventilation.
I also like the hoop-less bivys better than hooped ones like the Helium since they too can be lighter even with a tarp and allow the bivy to move with you.
Just me, but I tend to think of the hooped bivys as being more like very uncomfortable little tents than as bivys.
The OR Helium weighs more than a bug bivy and tarp and has much poorer ventilation.
I also like the hoop-less bivys better than hooped ones like the Helium since they too can be lighter even with a tarp and allow the bivy to move with you.
Just me, but I tend to think of the hooped bivys as being more like very uncomfortable little tents than as bivys.
#32
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2333 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times
in
1,314 Posts
Dual side entry with two vestibules is nice, especially in a 21 oz package.
#33
Senior Member
Well on a side note, I've seen the NatureHike knockoff stuff online, and let's face it, buying this sort of stuff, and tons of other made in China copyright theft or whatever you want to call it, plus of course all kinds of regular stuff that we all have and buy that's made in China, we certainly are helping pay for the Chinese Space program....
To be clear, it's really more the copy and stamp aspect of the Chinese business model that concerns me.
And yes, being in a truly waterproof sleeping bag would be pretty gross and damp pretty quickly.
Heck being in a totally damp tent for a long time is damp feeling.
To be clear, it's really more the copy and stamp aspect of the Chinese business model that concerns me.
And yes, being in a truly waterproof sleeping bag would be pretty gross and damp pretty quickly.
Heck being in a totally damp tent for a long time is damp feeling.
Last edited by djb; 06-03-21 at 10:20 AM.
Likes For djb:
#34
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Golden, CO and Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,840
Bikes: 2012 Specialized Elite Disc, 1983 Trek 520
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 677 Post(s)
Liked 743 Times
in
432 Posts
A pretty good compromise between a tent and a bivy is a hybrid tarptent. Single wall, with netting, with or without floor, not too expensive, examples at Tarptent.com. Light and compact, fast and easy pitch. There's a learning curve in dealing with condensation vs a two wall tent, where it stays mostly on the fly.
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,984
Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 854 Post(s)
Liked 150 Times
in
107 Posts
Curious: what kind of rain can you deal with by simply pulling a tarp over your bivy (drizzle, brief downpour, all-nighter -- as long as there's not much wind, you stay dry?) I am quite interested in trying out something like that. Are you in the habit of staking one side of your tarp, just in case, or simply use it as a blanket if the need arises?
#36
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,119
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1791 Post(s)
Liked 1,631 Times
in
934 Posts
Thumbs down on the waterproof sleeping bag idea. Like everyone else has said, it's gotta breathe. Here is what I use/used most recently:
https://zpacks.com/products/30f-classic-sleeping-bag Medium, standard, 390 grams.
https://seatosummitusa.com/products/...-extreme-liner 396 grams
https://zpacks.com/products/altaplex-tent For a person less than 6 & ½ foot tall, 437 grams
https://www.thermarest.com/sleeping-...ir-xtherm.html
6.9 R-value, 2.5 inches thick. 566 grams.
An all weather sleep & shelter system at under 1900 grams...& there is even lighter, more fair weather systems available; I just don't like being cold. The Thermarest would be the easiest place to save weight by swapping it for a https://klymit.com/products/inertia-...31722981425242 if warmer temps are expected & you are stuck on having a full length pad.
I have the half length version. ~160 grams or so. It works well. Albeit a bit weird looking.
You could also easily save another 276 grams (10.5 ounces) over the Sea to Summit Reactor liner by switching to a Rab silk liner. Making both changes (liner & pad) would net you a 1.2 kilo full fair weather sleep/shelter system.
I've used them all. The 30 degree bag just needed leggings, pants & a coat with wool socks to be comfortable with a Sea to Summit liner when it was 27 degrees & frosty at Yellowstone 12 days ago. With the cuban fiber tent nothing got wet when the rain set in.
I would've brought the 10 degree bag I own, but the overnight lows were to be in the 50's in Provo earlier this week. When I got to Provo, I just slept in the Sea to Summit liner on the Klymit pad & used the bag as a blanket.
https://zpacks.com/products/30f-classic-sleeping-bag Medium, standard, 390 grams.
https://seatosummitusa.com/products/...-extreme-liner 396 grams
https://zpacks.com/products/altaplex-tent For a person less than 6 & ½ foot tall, 437 grams
https://www.thermarest.com/sleeping-...ir-xtherm.html
6.9 R-value, 2.5 inches thick. 566 grams.
An all weather sleep & shelter system at under 1900 grams...& there is even lighter, more fair weather systems available; I just don't like being cold. The Thermarest would be the easiest place to save weight by swapping it for a https://klymit.com/products/inertia-...31722981425242 if warmer temps are expected & you are stuck on having a full length pad.
I have the half length version. ~160 grams or so. It works well. Albeit a bit weird looking.
You could also easily save another 276 grams (10.5 ounces) over the Sea to Summit Reactor liner by switching to a Rab silk liner. Making both changes (liner & pad) would net you a 1.2 kilo full fair weather sleep/shelter system.
I've used them all. The 30 degree bag just needed leggings, pants & a coat with wool socks to be comfortable with a Sea to Summit liner when it was 27 degrees & frosty at Yellowstone 12 days ago. With the cuban fiber tent nothing got wet when the rain set in.
I would've brought the 10 degree bag I own, but the overnight lows were to be in the 50's in Provo earlier this week. When I got to Provo, I just slept in the Sea to Summit liner on the Klymit pad & used the bag as a blanket.
Last edited by base2; 06-03-21 at 05:36 PM.
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked 69 Times
in
51 Posts
I've spent a lot of nights in sleeping bags - mostly in tents - but I've never bikepacked or toured on my bike.
I'm assuming that most bikers are using down bags to keep the packed volume low?
With a down bag, I'd advise doing everything you can to avoid getting the down damp. I'd be very careful not to put anything waterproof directly on the bag, since that encourages condensation. If you are camping where you can get everything completely dried out after a rain passes, it's not such an issue. If you are dealing with multi-day cool rain, things can get miserable with a wet bag. Even 'Dri-Down' bags can get wet.
A good synthetic bag is better in the wet, but they are a lot more bulky.
A vapour barrier bag liner or VB sleep clothing can help, but not everybody likes them.
I'm assuming that most bikers are using down bags to keep the packed volume low?
With a down bag, I'd advise doing everything you can to avoid getting the down damp. I'd be very careful not to put anything waterproof directly on the bag, since that encourages condensation. If you are camping where you can get everything completely dried out after a rain passes, it's not such an issue. If you are dealing with multi-day cool rain, things can get miserable with a wet bag. Even 'Dri-Down' bags can get wet.
A good synthetic bag is better in the wet, but they are a lot more bulky.
A vapour barrier bag liner or VB sleep clothing can help, but not everybody likes them.
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,314 Times
in
707 Posts
I don't use a down bag. Haven't since the 1980s.
As stated: in a damp climate, multiple nights with a wet down bag can be a downer. I'm usually following an itinerary and can't afford sitting for 1/2 a day to let bags dry out - if they could in continuing rain.
Volume does not equal weight.
While the UL thing is fun to talk about on forums, irl I don't see riders that concerned to the point of forgoing practicality. I would rather over pack a bit and be prepared for changing conditions if they are anticipated rather than trying to shave so close that I risk ruining an entire vacation cycle by bailing due to discomfort. Last year I did a trip with someone who was unprepared for conditions and became negative part way in for the duration. It made for an uncomfortable trip.
I find down best when the weather is cold enough that the precipitation comes in the form of snow.
As stated: in a damp climate, multiple nights with a wet down bag can be a downer. I'm usually following an itinerary and can't afford sitting for 1/2 a day to let bags dry out - if they could in continuing rain.
Volume does not equal weight.
While the UL thing is fun to talk about on forums, irl I don't see riders that concerned to the point of forgoing practicality. I would rather over pack a bit and be prepared for changing conditions if they are anticipated rather than trying to shave so close that I risk ruining an entire vacation cycle by bailing due to discomfort. Last year I did a trip with someone who was unprepared for conditions and became negative part way in for the duration. It made for an uncomfortable trip.
I find down best when the weather is cold enough that the precipitation comes in the form of snow.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 06-03-21 at 09:57 AM.
#39
Bikeable
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times
in
73 Posts
Tent
You are right. The downside to the Nature hike tent is the single (side) entry and honestly the inability to zip open both sides of the rain fly, If you want more airflow. I would consider buying a zipper and sewing it into the other side of the rain fly. What do you mean by "especially in a 21 oz package" ???
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,312
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18443 Post(s)
Liked 15,655 Times
in
7,364 Posts
While the UL thing is fun to talk about on forums, irl I don't see riders that concerned to the point of forgoing practicality. I would rather over pack a bit and be prepared for changing conditions if they are anticipated rather than trying to shave so close that I risk ruining an entire vacation cycle by bailing due to discomfort. Last year I did a trip with someone who was unprepared for conditions and became negative part way in for the duration. It made for an uncomfortable trip.
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2333 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times
in
1,314 Posts
You are right. The downside to the Nature hike tent is the single (side) entry and honestly the inability to zip open both sides of the rain fly, If you want more airflow. I would consider buying a zipper and sewing it into the other side of the rain fly. What do you mean by "especially in a 21 oz package" ???
21 oz = 1 pound 5 oz = 595 grams
#42
Senior Member
Curious: what kind of rain can you deal with by simply pulling a tarp over your bivy (drizzle, brief downpour, all-nighter -- as long as there's not much wind, you stay dry?) I am quite interested in trying out something like that. Are you in the habit of staking one side of your tarp, just in case, or simply use it as a blanket if the need arises?
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 6,432
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 539 Post(s)
Liked 44 Times
in
38 Posts
What do you do with a waterproof bag? Leave it partially opened or fully opened and get eaten by bugs all night? Or what if it's raining - but the center of a 60f sleeping bag burrito at 80f sounds horrible bordering on medical issues like heat exhaustion.
2. Are you going to get naked publicly in front of everyone else to change your underwear? What about larger items like pants or shirts? Usually you just do that in the tent.
3. If it ever gets wet and you have to pack it up wet it is going to be wet through and through for the rest of the trip. Like sleeping in a wet bag after all?
It seems like a good idea at first but there's a lot of practical problems with it.
3.
#44
Bikeable
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 326
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 104 Times
in
73 Posts
Waterproof sleeping bag
1. You bring a bag that keeps you warm at 60f in a tent. It's 75f so leave it partially unzipped. Next night it's 80 so you sleep on top of it.
What do you do with a waterproof bag? Leave it partially opened or fully opened and get eaten by bugs all night? Or what if it's raining - but the center of a 60f sleeping bag burrito at 80f sounds horrible bordering on medical issues like heat exhaustion.
2. Are you going to get naked publicly in front of everyone else to change your underwear? What about larger items like pants or shirts? Usually you just do that in the tent.
3. If it ever gets wet and you have to pack it up wet it is going to be wet through and through for the rest of the trip. Like sleeping in a wet bag after all?
It seems like a good idea at first but there's a lot of practical problems with it.
3.
What do you do with a waterproof bag? Leave it partially opened or fully opened and get eaten by bugs all night? Or what if it's raining - but the center of a 60f sleeping bag burrito at 80f sounds horrible bordering on medical issues like heat exhaustion.
2. Are you going to get naked publicly in front of everyone else to change your underwear? What about larger items like pants or shirts? Usually you just do that in the tent.
3. If it ever gets wet and you have to pack it up wet it is going to be wet through and through for the rest of the trip. Like sleeping in a wet bag after all?
It seems like a good idea at first but there's a lot of practical problems with it.
3.
Likes For headwind15: