ViperZ

Thanks for confirming that. It looks to be a sweet jacket, just not in the temp range I'm looking for.

Perfomance has this Gore jacket which is made with 2layer and Pac lite, looks not to bad...

$0.00/Gal

You're right. TNF makes some decent high end stuff. I think I'm just sick of Denali fleece jackets.

khuon

I have been very happy with my Race Face Aquanot jacket that I got about 5 years ago.



Built for offroad incliment weather riding, this jacket is both warm and breathes. It has pit zips, the collar is fleece lined, it has reflective piping and the material will take a crash without ripping along with reinforced elbow pads. I don't think it's still being made but it seems that Race Face has a new lineup of jackets. I'm thinking of getting the Shore jacket.

Jarery

If your looking for a jacket with goretex, its crap.
It doesnt breath worth a dang and is overcharging due to the 'gore' name.

North face is just as bad, up here in canada they have rainjackets at $600 and they dont work near as well as some cycling jackets made from eVent.

What temp range are you looking for?
If 50 degrees and colder, look for eVent material, showerspass, PI, and Gill all make cycling jackets in it. Showerspass is the only one with added venting, and is probably THE best cycling specific waterproof you can currently buy. It also looks better in real life than their pics on the web.

If your looking for warmer temps, stay away from anything waterproof, your going to overheat. Look for softshells and for even warmer temps go for ultralights like sugoi stealth or viper. Many cycling mfg'rs make an ultralight. And they fit in a jersey pocket.

If you go the softshell route, schoeller dryskin extreme is the most breathable of all fabrics currently,

ViperZ

I agree, most 2 layer Goretex can be overkill for a cycling jacket, as it can't breath as fast as you are perspiring. My last jacket was a 2 layer Banff, however with pit zips, and mesh lined pockets, it worked very well. Event is good, but Gore Tex XCR is still the Standard.

I would never give them up in the in the outdoors or backcountry for anything else.


I'm just wanting a water resistant to water proof shell, that is packable and light. Something I can carry in my jersey pocket if need be.

I like the Pearl Izumi's, the convertable Campagnolo and a few others posted.

Jarery

[QUOTE=ViperZ]. Event is good, but Gore Tex XCR is still the Standard.

QUOTE]

According to who? Gore?

Do some research, US Army materials testing, and pretty much ANY independant testing rates event a lot higher than goretex. Goretex is a scam, it breaths untill they add the coating thats needed outside a lab to keep it from being contaminated by oils.

giantcfr1

This is my PI. A couple years old now and works well.

ViperZ

According to the many well recognized manufacturers that use Gore in their designs.

I have done my own research and field trials to know what works for me. I field tested Goretex Pac Lite (hiking the West Coast Trail) before it was available on the market, I was part of the Consumer R&D for that product. When a fabric becomes wetted out, it loses a lot of it's breathability regardless of what membrane is behind it. That's when the design construction of the garment comes into play, details such a pit zips, mesh lined ventilation pockets prevent the cammy feel. I have never felt clammy with my TNF Goretex, or had the garbage bag feel in my outdoor situations so how is that crap? I have felt clammy in my Goretex Banff, because it's design execution was not optimum. As to the contamination of oils, dirt will also block the pores of any breathable material, so no matter what it's made of, you have to wash and keep it clean, additionally what you wear underneath will also affect the performance. Bottom line it's not just the materials, but the design & execution as well.


My Stretch Goretex XCR is so comfortable, soft and breathable, allowing great articulation not found in standard nylon-ed membranes. I'll give some breathability up for that 4way stretch, and the nice design details for my staple back country jacket. I'm already looking at a eVent Pearl Izumi jacket and I think it will work well too.

I just get a chuckle out of the global comments that summarily say something or another "Is Crap". It reminds me of the typical comments read here like "Carbon is crap", "Steel is crap" "______ is Crap". With one broad paint brush, everything is ruled out

ViperZ

Nice Pearl Giantcfr1. I'm torn between a sedate 1 to 2 color jacket or something loud and flashy for on bike use.

I really like the Biemme ones, they remind me of Sport bike Leathers

giantcfr1

[QUOTE=ViperZ]

I really like the Biemme ones, they remind me of Sport bike Leathers



QUOTE]

This one's screaming Yamaha R1. (*o*)b

ViperZ

The more I look, the more jackets I find I need It would look Awesome with the Trek 5000

lala

A bit off topic, but I just ordered me a Pearl Izumi Optik jacket. I like a light breathable shell to wear over wool. It's wind I most worry about. For serious bad weather: I've a Sugoi something or other: heavier, not breathable, but wind and water proof.

ViperZ

Totally on topic

Thanks, I seen a PI Optic online, I'll look it up.

ViperZ

$74.99 at Coldorado Cyclist.

PEARL IZUMI Optic Jacket
This jacket is no lightweight when it comes to offering wind and water protection—yet it easily compresses into a jersey pocket. Optik fabric is ultra-light and water and wind resistant. Full-length front zipper and zippered back pocket. Reflective details.


No stated color choice....

Jarery

The manufacturers using gore, of course their going to say its 'the best'. Do you really expect someone to say "were paying a license fee to goretex to use its product because it has name recognition in the market for stupid consumers, even though it only breathes at 50% of the other guy"? No their gonna say "this is the standard all others try to beat".

Dont base research on the opinions of the people whos income comes from you buying that material.

As to the contamination and washing, you misunderstood me. Goretex is susceptable to contamination by oils, so it has a coating added to it. Once the coating is added its no longer easily contaminated so washing isnt an issue. Unfortunatly breathing IS affected by that same coating.

There are links around, i cant find with the server move, it appears the message history went poof. But I have yet to find any independant test rate goretex higher than event and some of the new entrant materials.

Even on these forums you can find hundreds of disapointed goretex buyers, i dont think youl find a single displeased event buyer.

Edit : heres one link, an australian backpackign site, that tells the goretex background and rainwear in general https://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Rainwear.htm

Slice2

I was checking out the Optik at REI a couple of days ago. Very light - looks like ripstop close-up - I balled it up in my hand and it compressed well. I just wondered if it would billow in the wind since it was a bit of a loose fit.

+1 on the Barrier jacket. All the photos only show the front. In case you haven't seen one in person, the entire back yoke is scalloped and vented, so you can use the front zipper as an air scoop to circulate air in/around your core & out the back 'exhaust'. For riding, I've found that it is very effective and works much better than pit zips. Mine's been comfortable from 32 to around 60; after that, I switch over to warmers & vest. Did 40 miles yesterday in windy conditions, including one sustained climb (sunny - jacket fully unzipped), a screaming downhill (sprinkling), several showers and one hard-hitting rainsquall; temps in low 50's. This jacket is perfect compared to anything near it's price, IMHO.

If you want the ultimate, go for the Assos Clima Jet over whatever baselayer: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/za...RY.ID=11&MODE=

ViperZ

I don't it's based on my own research and field use during many years of outdoor use.


As to the questionable manufacturers....

Brands that use Gore material

Adidas (6 products)
Alpinestars (2 products)
Arc'Teryx (49 products)
Asolo (15 products)
Bass Pro Shops (11 products)
Bates (4 products)
Black Diamond (1 product)
Boathouse Sports (4 products)
Bonfire (5 products)
Browning (6 products)
Burton (18 products)
Cabela's (103 products)
Clarks (9 products)
Cloudveil (3 products)
Columbia (5 products)
Comfort In Action (1 product)
Danner (52 products)
Drop (3 products)
Ecco (61 products)
Garmont (7 products)
Georgia Boot (11 products)
GoLite (2 products)
Gordini (3 products)
Havana Joe (4 products)
Hestra (3 products)
Irish Setter (14 products)
Kokatat (3 products)
Kombi (1 product)
LL Bean (56 products)
La Sportiva (13 products)
Lowa (28 products)
Man***** (1 product)
Marmot (13 products)
Meindl (3 products)
Mephisto (2 products)
Merrell (23 products)
Montrail (24 products)
Mountain Hardwear (33 products)
Nike (7 products)
Olympia (1 product)
Outdoor Research (27 products)
Patagonia (1 product)
Pearl Izumi (2 products)
Puma (4 products)
Quiksilver (4 products)
REI (1 product)
RedHead (27 products)
Rockport (8 products)
Rocky (16 products)
Salomon (12 products)
San Francisco Hat (2 products)
Scarpa (6 products)
Sessions (8 products)
Simms (1 product)
Spyder (1 product)
Stuart Weitzman (8 products)
Sunderland (1 product)
Tecnica (1 product)
Teknic (5 products)
Teva (3 products)
The North Face (25 products)
Timberland (19 products)
Vasque (36 products)
Wolverine (10 products)

You really think those well respected manufacturers would risk their reputations on something that does not work? Gortex works well enough, again it's not just the material rather the design and execution.

Brands that use Event
66° North
Callaway
Colmar
Craghoppers
Dee-luxe
Feathered Friends
Gill
Ground
Hi-Tec
Integral Designs
Kayland
Klattermusen
Lundhags
Montane
Moose Racing
Pace
Rab
Showers Pass
Sportchief
Spyder Footwear
Vaude
Watership Trading
Zytt

No I fully understand, my point is as long as you keep the garment clean, oils and dirt are a non issue, so really it's moot point, as what you are wearing as a base layer, cleanliness and design and execution matter more.


And for every complaint, I'm willing to bet there is 1000 happy campers, that are unheard from, that's the nature of the internet.

I don't care what you may think is the best material for breathability, and for the sake of argument you may be right, however that's just a small part of the equation, as the material alone does not make a good garment, how it's designed and put together matters as well. Do you think if I was to sew a rudimentary jacket together using Event, that it would outperform a Mountain Harware or Arc'Terx Gortex in all aspects? Highley unlikely.....

I use my stuff enough to know that it works, keeps me comfortable and dry and makes me happy regardless of what you tell me other wise.

If you like Event, knock yourself out, but no need to discredit so many other good makers using Goretex, And yes, Goretex can be considered a standard as they basically invented & developed the ePTFE technology, and have become the generic name like Bandaids. Of course feel free to use what you like

ViperZ

Slice, I like back yokes too, however manytimes I'm riding with a backpack so that woudl tend to block that area.

I sure do like the look of the Barrier, it's just more jacket then I need for this time of year, maybe fall.

Jarery

Well, according to what you just posted no you dont understand at all. Gotretex doesnt sell the material without the pu coating on it. It has zero to do with how you keep it clean.

Oh and there is a reason the majority you listed use gore not event, gore will not license to any mfg that uses event, so the mfg has to decide one or the other. And since most buyers are ignorant and go by a recognizable name, and gore has had the market for 30 years, ......It comes down to what will make them the most money, not whats best for you.

But its all good. If your happy with goretex then go for it.

ViperZ

It has everything to do with keeping it clean, oils and dirt will clog the pores of any material, affecting breath-ability. Keeping a garment clean regardless of what it's made of is critical. If the material is less breathable due to a PU coating, it's still not as critical as the design and function of the garment, and the base layer. Most times it's more important what you have on underneath. Additionally the PU coating prevents the fabric from becoming wetted out, which will also reduce breath-ability, so again it comes down to the design details that will allow perspiration to escape most readily. You can have the most water proof breathable material on the planet, however poorly designed, a pit zip in a less breathable material would vent a lot quicker than the breathable material.

Gore actually requires the manufacturer to submit garments on a annual basis for their testing to meet the standard, that's why they are licenced, and have to maintain high standards of design and construction. For me I'm happy to see that certification, and gladly pay for it because I know it will work. Again, do you think all those well respected makers are wrong, or that a billion users world wide would keep using it if it were crap (as you say)?

Most buyers are not ignorant, and I beg to differ that most buyers are very educated these days, that's why its so tough to be on retail sales, the average consumer is as up to speed as the sellers themselves.

Yes it's all good, that's my point, your splitting hairs on one aspect only...

Jarery

You keep misunderstanding. EVERY jacket is the same in that respect, yes if its covered in oil it wont breath. Gore originally did not have a pu layer, they released their material, had major problems with contamination, so added a pu layer and released version 2. This was all 30 years ago. Since then they have always had the pu layer adeed to their material. You dont have the opportunity to get it without the layer, and keep it clean on your own.

A billion users walk from their car to the mall in their goretex and of course their happy. They dont sweat on a good day let alone a day in the pouring rain. Cycling is an aerobic activity, we build a LOT of heat. Very few people participate in outdoor aerobic activities in the rain. Companies that make their jackets market to those billion users, not to us few thousand.

ViperZ

I understand the PU coating and that its part of the material, what I'm saying is it really does not matter that Gore is doing that as there are many other factors that affect breathability.

Did I not say that Gortex can be overkill for a cycling jacket way before you though it crucial to educate me in the error of my ways? It's a well known principle that for wet outdoors aerobic activities, you have to give up some waterproofness for breath ability. I have no argument there, However its the global Goretrex is crap which is all wrong for it works given the right application and design. Somehow you seem to be missing all that.

Add to that that I use my stuff outdoors, mountaineering and backpacking to know it works well enough for me and it's application, hardly crap at all.

Jarery

I was mearly trying to point you in a direction to do some research that might allow you to make a purchase where you would even be happier. I use my raingear a lot too, i commute 2 hours a day, over mountains, and in january we had 29 days of rain. I never once arrived wet either from sweat or from leakage.

I'll refrain from trying to 'educate' you any further.

ViperZ

It's all good, thanks for your input, it's appreciated.

I was looking at a Event Pearl Izumi jacket as I said, however in the end it will not be just a material that will determine what I buy, it will be the fit, finish, details, packability, color as well as many other things.

In fact the ironic thing is after our lenghty debate, it most likely will not be Gore or Event that I go with but just a tight micro fiber jacket that is wind resistant and water resistant, lord knows I already own enough ePTFE jackets

Jarery

pearl Izumi looks ok, but has no vents last I looked. No pit zips etc, they rely just on the mtl alone to vent, which isnt enough.