Ti Bike: "The Last Bike You'll Ever Buy" What About Carbon Bikes?
#26
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 389 Post(s)
Liked 255 Times
in
165 Posts
Frame test:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm
surprising, the one's they couldn't break weren't Ti.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm
surprising, the one's they couldn't break weren't Ti.
Likes For Jack Tone:
#27
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,456
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 4,873 Times
in
3,017 Posts
Frame test:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm
surprising, the one's they couldn't break weren't Ti.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/...tigue_test.htm
surprising, the one's they couldn't break weren't Ti.
As the test in your link also rightly states, it is really the design and manufacture that is most important to frame longevity. Frame material choice is really secondary when it comes to longevity. So, for example, a badly designed/manufactured CF frame could be weaker than a well designed alloy frame.
But if you want the lightest/strongest bike, then CF is the best known material to work with. It is also the most versatile material for producing specific riding characteristics e.g. directional stiffness, controlled compliance etc. Early CF frames were a bit crude and certainly didn't take full advantage of the new material. But modern CF frames are far more sophisticated, with carefully designed carbon layups and tube profiles. It mirrors what I saw in F1 motorsport development through the '90s and into the current era.
#28
Thread Killer
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 12,452
Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3151 Post(s)
Liked 1,716 Times
in
1,036 Posts
#29
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 33,006
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11975 Post(s)
Liked 6,655 Times
in
3,486 Posts
Some just easier than others.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
Likes For BillyD:
#30
Senior Member
i have seen so many 1989 and 1990 era Ti bikes posted... you buy the frame and just change out the group every few years,,, or many years... i have seen few 2000 era or 1990s carbon bikes.. that look near as nice in condition as the same era Ti bikes... not saying that folks are not rocking the old trek 5500s... but you dont seem many of them..
#31
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,972
Bikes: Habanero Titanium Team Nuevo
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 399 Post(s)
Liked 185 Times
in
121 Posts
I bought my Habanero in March of 2017 and put some 25000 miles on it. I have a nice CF bike but have only road it a handful of times since getting the TI. I don't how long it will last but it sure seems pretty good Richey CF fork but really any bike can have an issue. I can tell you once I went Ti it would take much to have me go to CF. I could but not planning on it.
#32
Disco Infiltrator
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Folsom CA
Posts: 13,446
Bikes: Stormchaser, Paramount, Tilt, Samba tandem
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3126 Post(s)
Liked 2,105 Times
in
1,369 Posts
I don't want to think about the last bike I'll ever buy. That would be awful. I love thinking about the next bike I'm going to buy. Even on the day I buy the last bike ever I'm not going to be thinking it's the last one
__________________
Genesis 49:16-17
Genesis 49:16-17
Likes For Darth Lefty:
#33
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 987
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Supersix EVO 3, 2015 Trek 520, 2017 Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, 2022 Moots Vamoots Disc RSL
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked 267 Times
in
140 Posts
Thanks to all whom responded. You've provided much to consider.
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,456
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 4,873 Times
in
3,017 Posts
i have seen so many 1989 and 1990 era Ti bikes posted... you buy the frame and just change out the group every few years,,, or many years... i have seen few 2000 era or 1990s carbon bikes.. that look near as nice in condition as the same era Ti bikes... not saying that folks are not rocking the old trek 5500s... but you dont seem many of them..
Likes For PeteHski:
#36
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,473
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1743 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times
in
740 Posts
If you find a bike that is the last bike you will ever want, you are clearly not BF material.
Likes For bruce19:
#37
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 23,208
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18883 Post(s)
Liked 10,646 Times
in
6,054 Posts
One day the sun will run out of fuel and stop shining. One day all stars will stop shining, and the universe will spend the rest of eternity in darkness. After the black holes evaporate there will be nothing left but cockroaches, ti frames, and the Queen of England. Theoretical physicists aren't certain, but expect Gatorskins to still exist too.
#38
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Treasure Coast, FL
Posts: 987
Bikes: 2014 Cannondale Supersix EVO 3, 2015 Trek 520, 2017 Bike Friday Pocket Rocket, 2022 Moots Vamoots Disc RSL
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked 267 Times
in
140 Posts
One day the sun will run out of fuel and stop shining. One day all stars will stop shining, and the universe will spend the rest of eternity in darkness. After the black holes evaporate there will be nothing left but cockroaches, ti frames, and the Queen of England. Theoretical physicists aren't certain, but expect Gatorskins to still exist too.
Likes For Bassmanbob:
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 702
Bikes: '23 Poseidon Redwood, '07 Specialized Roubaix Comp Triple, '12 Gravity Fixie, '21 Liv Rove 4, '06? Giant EB Spirit
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 237 Times
in
151 Posts
If you like your current bike I would stick with it and upgrade something else (if you want to upgrade something)
Wheels
tires
shoes
all can have a dramatic improvement in the ride depending on your starting point.
I get the appeal of a Ti bike that will last forever. But your current bike might just last forever AND you know you like it
my $0.02
Wheels
tires
shoes
all can have a dramatic improvement in the ride depending on your starting point.
I get the appeal of a Ti bike that will last forever. But your current bike might just last forever AND you know you like it
my $0.02
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,456
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 4,873 Times
in
3,017 Posts
One day the sun will run out of fuel and stop shining. One day all stars will stop shining, and the universe will spend the rest of eternity in darkness. After the black holes evaporate there will be nothing left but cockroaches, ti frames, and the Queen of England. Theoretical physicists aren't certain, but expect Gatorskins to still exist too.
"walk on"
So if a bike lasts for a decade or two, that's plenty long enough for me.
#41
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,595
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 608 Post(s)
Liked 352 Times
in
225 Posts
The notion of last bike you will ever buy could be true if you don't follow trends or move to the benefits of new engineering. People can talk about their 30 year old Merlins but I don't believe for a moment they even compare to a new oversized tubing Moots. Oversized handlebars, sub-compact gearing, more tubing choices for different styles and weight, two piece cranks, 11, 12 and even 13 speeds, disc brakes are all an improvement in my eyes. Though that won't be the case for everyone.
Anyways, I think it is a great question and certainly open for a varied debate.
#42
Member
I just bought someone else's titanium bike - a 2007 Litespeed Siena w/Sram Force 22
he must have upgraded to carbon. Now I'm trying to sell my 09' S-Works Roubaix but the Roubaix is just too beautiful to let go...
At one point I had 2 titanium bikes, 2 Chromoly bikes, 2 carbon bikes plus 1 aluminum folding bike in my n+1 bike collection... Since then have sold everything but kept the Siena and the S-Works Roubaix.
The titanium is definitely A LOT tougher than the carbon bike, I can lay it on the stone, bang it on the bike rack in the city, ride on the salty road, and just in general not to clean the frame at all and when I want to clean it: mild soapy water and the frame looks brand new... Don't think the carbon bike will fare well in this kind of abuse, and that's why I'll always have Ti as a beater and the carbon bike just for the sake of having a carbon bike...
Whoever says titanium soaks up bumps like chromoly is bulls***ing because it is as rigid as it can be (think early day carbon bikes with not much vertical compliance). However, if you enjoy the instant and crisp power transfer, and the timeless look of the naked titanium tubing, you'll enjoy having a titanium bike. Modern day titanium bikes come in a wide variety of different tubing shapes try to mimic what the layering carbon has accomplished, but I personally think it's purely cosmetic, carbon bikes will still provide the most comfort ride.
Which one would you keep?
2007 Litespeed Siena @17lb
2009 Specialized S-Works Roubaix @16lb
At one point I had 2 titanium bikes, 2 Chromoly bikes, 2 carbon bikes plus 1 aluminum folding bike in my n+1 bike collection... Since then have sold everything but kept the Siena and the S-Works Roubaix.
The titanium is definitely A LOT tougher than the carbon bike, I can lay it on the stone, bang it on the bike rack in the city, ride on the salty road, and just in general not to clean the frame at all and when I want to clean it: mild soapy water and the frame looks brand new... Don't think the carbon bike will fare well in this kind of abuse, and that's why I'll always have Ti as a beater and the carbon bike just for the sake of having a carbon bike...
Whoever says titanium soaks up bumps like chromoly is bulls***ing because it is as rigid as it can be (think early day carbon bikes with not much vertical compliance). However, if you enjoy the instant and crisp power transfer, and the timeless look of the naked titanium tubing, you'll enjoy having a titanium bike. Modern day titanium bikes come in a wide variety of different tubing shapes try to mimic what the layering carbon has accomplished, but I personally think it's purely cosmetic, carbon bikes will still provide the most comfort ride.
Which one would you keep?
2007 Litespeed Siena @17lb
2009 Specialized S-Works Roubaix @16lb
Last edited by lifanus; 06-10-21 at 10:41 PM.
#43
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,456
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 4,873 Times
in
3,017 Posts
I just bought someone else's titanium bike - a 2007 Litespeed Siena w/Sram Force 22 here is the first ride video he must have upgraded to carbon. Now I'm trying to sell my 09' S-Works Roubaix but the Roubaix is just too beautiful to let go...
At one point I had 2 titanium bikes, 2 Chromoly bikes, 2 carbon bikes plus 1 aluminum folding bike in my n+1 bike collection... Since then have sold everything but kept the Siena and the S-Works Roubaix.
The titanium is definitely A LOT tougher than the carbon bike, I can lay it on the stone, bang it on the bike rack in the city, ride on the salty road, and just in general not to clean the frame at all and when I want to clean it: mild soapy water and the frame looks brand new... Don't think the carbon bike will fare well in this kind of abuse, and that's why I'll always have Ti as a beater and the carbon bike just for the sake of having a carbon bike...
Whoever says titanium soaks up bumps like chromoly is bulls***ing because it is as rigid as it can be (think early day carbon bikes with not much vertical compliance). However, if you enjoy the instant and crisp power transfer, and the timeless look of the naked titanium tubing, you'll enjoy having a titanium bike. Modern day titanium bikes come in a wide variety of different tubing shapes try to mimic what the layering carbon has accomplished, but I personally think it's purely cosmetic, carbon bikes will still provide the most comfort ride.
Which one would you keep?
At one point I had 2 titanium bikes, 2 Chromoly bikes, 2 carbon bikes plus 1 aluminum folding bike in my n+1 bike collection... Since then have sold everything but kept the Siena and the S-Works Roubaix.
The titanium is definitely A LOT tougher than the carbon bike, I can lay it on the stone, bang it on the bike rack in the city, ride on the salty road, and just in general not to clean the frame at all and when I want to clean it: mild soapy water and the frame looks brand new... Don't think the carbon bike will fare well in this kind of abuse, and that's why I'll always have Ti as a beater and the carbon bike just for the sake of having a carbon bike...
Whoever says titanium soaks up bumps like chromoly is bulls***ing because it is as rigid as it can be (think early day carbon bikes with not much vertical compliance). However, if you enjoy the instant and crisp power transfer, and the timeless look of the naked titanium tubing, you'll enjoy having a titanium bike. Modern day titanium bikes come in a wide variety of different tubing shapes try to mimic what the layering carbon has accomplished, but I personally think it's purely cosmetic, carbon bikes will still provide the most comfort ride.
Which one would you keep?
I think carbon frames are a lot tougher than you think and they are just fine on salty roads. They are perhaps more prone to superficial scratches, but with a reasonable amount of care I haven't found them to be a problem. I've been using carbon mtb frames for a good few years now and they clean up like new after countless trail rides. But I do have frame protection film on those. I've had a couple of carbon road bikes too that have been fine. Looks like your Roubaix is holding up well if that was a recent picture.
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,456
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 4,873 Times
in
3,017 Posts
Likes For PeteHski:
#45
Member
Our local riding group just posted a picture of a crash, it doesn't matter what kind of bike. High end bikes are designed to shave weight as much as possible to squeeze extra power during a race, they are not designed to take on a beating and last forever if you know what I mean... Afterall they are designed to win races, pros gets them for free, us consumers gets them because pros ride them and win races on them... Marketing effect.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
#46
Member
Those are 2 very nice bikes you have there.
I think carbon frames are a lot tougher than you think and they are just fine on salty roads. They are perhaps more prone to superficial scratches, but with a reasonable amount of care I haven't found them to be a problem. I've been using carbon mtb frames for a good few years now and they clean up like new after countless trail rides. But I do have frame protection film on those. I've had a couple of carbon road bikes too that have been fine. Looks like your Roubaix is holding up well if that was a recent picture.
I think carbon frames are a lot tougher than you think and they are just fine on salty roads. They are perhaps more prone to superficial scratches, but with a reasonable amount of care I haven't found them to be a problem. I've been using carbon mtb frames for a good few years now and they clean up like new after countless trail rides. But I do have frame protection film on those. I've had a couple of carbon road bikes too that have been fine. Looks like your Roubaix is holding up well if that was a recent picture.
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,456
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4420 Post(s)
Liked 4,873 Times
in
3,017 Posts
Our local riding group just posted a picture of a crash, it doesn't matter what kind of bike. High end bikes are designed to shave weight as much as possible to squeeze extra power during a race, they are not designed to take on a beating and last forever if you know what I mean... Afterall they are designed to win races, pros gets them for free, us consumers gets them because pros ride them and win races on them... Marketing effect.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,660
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1248 Post(s)
Liked 1,323 Times
in
674 Posts
Our local riding group just posted a picture of a crash, it doesn't matter what kind of bike. High end bikes are designed to shave weight as much as possible to squeeze extra power during a race, they are not designed to take on a beating and last forever if you know what I mean... Afterall they are designed to win races, pros gets them for free, us consumers gets them because pros ride them and win races on them... Marketing effect.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
#49
Member
Not sure the point of the picture. If a manufacturer was able to make a sub-600-gram titanium frame that was rideable I am sure it would not have faired much better. Virtually all places where strength to weight are important the trend is away from titanium especially Aerospace, that is the reason titanium prices have been on a fairly steep price decline since 2006, the demand is just not there. The big benefit of titanium is its ability for small builders with limited tooling to build custom bikes and they are seen as pretty by some. Considering ride quality can be configured any way you like with a carbon bike layup that urban myth has passed a long time ago.
#50
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,641
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4739 Post(s)
Liked 1,533 Times
in
1,004 Posts
Our local riding group just posted a picture of a crash, it doesn't matter what kind of bike. High end bikes are designed to shave weight as much as possible to squeeze extra power during a race, they are not designed to take on a beating and last forever if you know what I mean... Afterall they are designed to win races, pros gets them for free, us consumers gets them because pros ride them and win races on them... Marketing effect.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.
High end bikes are usually designed to shave weight, when it comes to durability, one crash maybe all it needs to get a new one.