The Carpenter

Because bike shops make more money on service than they do on bike sales. If they loan you a tool they helped themselves out of some money. DON'T EVER ASK TO BORROW TOOLS!!!!!! That's just the way it is.
Sure you could say, They lost money when I decided not to make my purchase from them. The thing is doing it one time isn't really a problem. But when others find out they did it for you, then everyone wants free tool usage. Then it's a huge problem.

jrobe

Dumbest post ever. You are totally unreasonable. Buy or rent your own tools if you need them for anything around your house. You shouldn't need other people to tell you this. It is amazing how little common sense some people have.

AssosMan

OK..... I already admitted for being an ahole, but prioir experiences led me into this in the first place:

"Yes, I admit I was wrong ripping on the LBSes. I come from a small town (less than 30 people) and as I said in a previous post, I was basing my impression on my first bike store tool lending experience (with PerformanceBike)... At the time it didn't seem like a big deal and it obviosuly didn't even bother the mechanics so I figured it was a normal thing to do.

So in the end, I just apparently found the nicest bike shop around and I'll never ask any other LBSes for tools! "

The very first time I asked for tools I was treated very nicely. I just thought that it was something that was going to to extended out from every bike shop.

AssosMan

Too funny (I painted for a summer before). I had a guy do exactly that and I actually gave him the brush without even thinking.... Didn't seem like a big deal to me......

travkat

+1/ I also worked in a shop and we never lent tools specifically for liability reasons. Not to mention, a lot of time the one tool to help someone out turns into a mechanic stopping what they have to do and helping the person borrowing the tool. And the car/mechanic analogy is spot on. So be happy the Pbike let you use their stuff and don't hold a grudge against your LBS.

Dubbayoo

So they're buying the ice and bananas........are they making me one too?

Rowan

Time to stop hitting on AssosMan. I understand where he is coming from, based on his first experience with borrowing tools from a small-town LBS (small-town meant in a nice way).

He's now a bit wiser, and suitably admonished, I would think.

bbattle

I've found that beer and pizza work wonders on the mechanics at my LBS. That, and buying stuff from the shop like bikes and equipment over the years. I also give my old components to one of the wrenches who uses them to fix up bikes for poor people. The only tool I've used of theirs was a chain tool. They sold me a chain but I needed it on the bike right then but the shop was swamped with bikes so I asked if I could use their tool and they said sure. Their repair shop is actually in a separate building behind the shop.

BikeWise1

As a shop owner and veteran wrencher, asking to borrow tools without first having formed some sort of relationship with the shop, i.e. beer, doughnuts, sending other customers our way, etc, is the highest form of arrogance. You might as well have asked for $20 cash from the mechanic. You are actively seeking to avoid compensating the shop for its convenience and investment. It makes you a cheap panhandler who doesn't respect what other people's hard work and money have bought.

Now, I have a few customers who are heroes. They send every cyclist they meet my way. They can be counted as an advocate. Do I loan them an occasional tool? You bet your bottom bracket.

It's about the relationship.

Duke of Kent

I'd like to think that I have a similar relationship with the owner and mechanics of the shop that sponsors my team.

They've asked me to wrench on bikes, work the front desk, fix computer problems, man the phones, and I've essentially sold a bike for them. I've done so freely and willingly. Not to mention I am a billboard for their shop 15-20hrs a week. I recognize that being friendly and helpful comes back to me in the long run.

I am allowed to walk directly into their maintenance area, pick up whatever tool I need, and have no questions or so much as a second glance from the guys in the shop. I also got whatever I needed at cost, and sometime free, for little things like cables and housing ($30+ retail, mind ye).

botto 

non sequitur:

if someone came into your shop a couple of times (on the same day) and bought something each time, then came back and asked for a hand taking off a cassette, would you charge them? if so, how much?

noisebeam

If I buy a part from the LBS they will install it at no charge with their tools
If I bring a part I bought somewhere else to the LBS they will install it for charge with their tools
If I want to install parts myself I can buy tools at the LBS

What more could you want?

BikeWise1

Depends on their attitude. Oddly, if someone offers to pay for a little thing like that before I head to the register, I am much more likely to say "don't worry about it" than if they stand there acting impatient then state "you mean you're gonna charge me for that"? after putting them ahead of everyone else. They do that and they're definitely getting charged!

botto 

sounds like you'd be a LBS i'd go back to, unlike one particular shop i visited this summer.

Mudu93

I understand and usually advocate having the right tool for the job, but headset cups can be removed using a regular screwdriver and a hammer if done carefully. It is what I do on the rare instance that I need to remove them.

grolby

What? You asked them to waste their time by not only installing the cranks (which don't have any relationship to dish whatsoever) but thenremoving them for no good reason? And you're complaining about that!? There's always something that needs doing, and time is money. I'd have charged you $40 as well, and not felt a hint of remorse about it. Of course, we might never have got that far, as I would have done my best to politely inform you that there's no need to install cranks in order to "check dish," so if you didn't want the damn things to stay on the bike, you best not have them installed in the first place.

There are a couple of shops who will lend me an Allen wrench or pedal wrench for a minute if I ask them, but they know me pretty well and know that I'm a mechanic myself, so it's not a big deal. I'm still hesitant to do it without also buying a Clif bar or inner tube or something, especially at the shop where the owner doesn't know me nearly as well (the other place insists that I use their truing stand - actually saves them time and aggravation - so not a problem there). If I were to bring my bike in with the intention of getting some serious work done, though, I'm not going to ask to borrow the necessary tools to cut a steerer and install a headset. There's a fair amount of money in that kind of work, and I would feel like a jerk even if they agreed to let me use their tools and their space without paying for the privilege. Quickly tightening up a crank or swapping pedals is one thing, installing cranks or a headset, etc, is a whole 'nother story.

dalava

Where I am at, I have found that Performance Bikes to be the most helpful and friendly, even though sometimes they are pretty screwed up about their inventories and stuff

My local LBS can be pretty much categorized into two types. One kind is all about selling, not much different from a used car dealer. They use the same pressure tactics and double talks, only worse. They are typically staffed by non-owner young guys. Another kind is the snobby shops where if you ask one question too many or too naive for their taste, you will get the "cold war" treatment. They are typically staffed by the owner or the owner's kids or friends.

Obviously this is a gross generalization and there are good people in some of these shops. I just haven't found that many. So for now, I'd rather take my chances with PBikes any time.

jccaclimber

If you buy a headset that costs $130 from them they'll probably do the install for at no charge you if you ask. Also, it may look like a $10 pipe with flared ends, and for that cost you can make one with some copper pipe and a hack saw (it works great, I've done it), but it really does cost more than that. Most shops don't loan out tools because of the stupid people in the world that believe things like 15mm cone wrench==pedal wrench.

oilman_15106

The real principle involved is you have no established relationship with any LBS right now. You want to buy a King head set at $130 which is little profit to the LBS.(they are listed on ebay all the time at that price, you decide). A real headset remover is more like a $50 tool, not $10. My LBS has allowed me to take a tool without paying for it and they are assured that if it works for me, they will get the price asked.
Their shop tools, I would never ask to borrow.

My suggestion is a long punch and hammer is all you need to remove a head set with out frame damage. You should be able to borrow these tools from someone.

mustang1

do you use Linux? Not everything is free anyway, good that u found pbike

sagginwagin

Obviously money isn't an issue since you wear top of the line Assos and decided upon another top of the line product in the Chris King headset. You state that you have the mechanical knowledge to do the repair/installation of said headset yourself but refuse to buy the necessary tool because you claim it'll be the only time that you forsee using/needing it. Baffling. Absolutely baffling.

If I am incorrect about money not being an issue why didn't you simply buy a less expensive headset and use the difference to have it installed? Or better yet, get a job in the bike shop and have access to all the tools and repairs that you need?

In answer to your question: Yes, it's just you!

sagginwagin

..........to get it done for free or on the cheap!

sagginwagin

I'm sure most of these posts are submitted after reading maybe the first 1 or 2 pages (like mine!) so I didn't see the OP's eventual partial admission of error. I'm we don't intend to pile it on to him, I personally didn't take the time to read each and every post on every page.

darksiderising

I am wondering how the OP was intending to properly install the new headset without a headset press. But I guess that's just another $10 tool, too.

I know that people install headsets without presses all the time, but I also know that occasionally some of these people damage their head tube in the process.

alanbikehouston

At the bike shop in my neighborhood, the staff don't like anyone to touch the tools, including other people who work at the shop. Each tool has a place, and that "place" is not in someone else's hand. However, the shop sometimes borrows from other shops. There are expensive tools that a shop might use fifteen minutes a year...borrowing that tool from a bigger shop makes more sense than buying one.