rm -rf

Drop a weighted string to the center of your crank axle, and measure horizontally to the tip of the saddle. My bike has a gap of almost 3 inches, approximately 70mm.

What model bike is this, and what size?

Can you post a photo of the bike?

waynesulak

Sometimes there is no substitute for personal instruction.

Lots of possible issues that are difficult to guess over the internet.

There are a couple comments mentioned above that cause me to think of possible strength and flexibility issues that we cannot see. For example, the need to lock elbows when standing mentioned in the original post. From a safety perspective I don't believe that locking elbows when riding a bike is ever a good idea.

Bikes are great machines but it does take a minimum amount of strength and flexibility to ride any bike safely and especially to captain a tandem.

Carbonfiberboy 

I see that you both wait until your pedal is stopped at BDC before moving back onto the saddle like most single riders, as I described above, Rowan's foot being in the same position in his photos 5 and 6. Do you do the same on the tandem? In which case, how do you get started on a hill?

Nice photos, beautiful pavers.

OP: We'd appreciate further input, progress reports, etc. Don't leave us hanging!

Rowan

Actually, on the tandem, we both adopt the butt-in-saddle-with-toe-on-ground technique. It works for us, although isn't the "recommended way" of doing it. To assist things, I am considering getting longer cranks for both ends so the seat is slightly lower. In general, I ride just about all my bikes from the in-seat start position... always have and probably always will. (There is a video of me using this technique, too).

I also think, that apart from the unanswered question about phase, that the bike might be in too low a gear to start off. But as Wayne points out, we can't advance this until sarah comes back with some more info.

antimonysarah

Sorry, I didn't check here over the weekend. First, answers to a variety of questions:

1. My bike is a custom, so I can't post a link to a published geometry chart. However, I can assure you the fit is correct, because it's a custom. Picture:


2. Saying I can't stand without locking my elbows is a little bit of an overstatement. I can stand normally with unlocked arms while riding, in a variety of positions -- stretching and coasting, a normal standing climb, a tucked-over-the-bars power climb, etc.; what I can't do is hold myself up with most of my weight on my partially bent arms. I am fairly certain I have enough upper body strength to captain a tandem, and my flexibility is A-OK.

3. I don't currently own a tandem. I'm looking at trying one out and I'd been led to believe this particular skill was necessary before attempting to do so, so I was trying to learn it on my single bike first. My husband and I are close in height and if we enjoy trying a tandem we would want to get one where we can swap positions.

4. Rowan might have it -- I'm likely in too low a gear. I was taught to always shift way, way down before stops, probably because as a pre-teen with my first geared bike I was a horrible masher and would end up unable to get started again, and the habit stuck. So I'm always in a very low gear trying this. I shift up as I'm clipping the second foot in, normally. I'll try it in a higher gear next time.

My husband, who can do this particular movement, and I played around with it a bit. No pictures, as we were measuring this inside the house and I just took my pants off rather than getting out some bike shorts. I definitely can't put my center of gravity over the foot on the pedal standing in front of the saddle. My foot isn't really as far "behind" me as it feels like, but it's definitely behind my center of mass. When he does it, he can get his foot under his COG. He, however, usually puts his entire butt on one side of the saddle rather than standing in front of it, basically standing a bit off to the side with the foot on the ground, which I tried the next day and was able to get started a couple times, although it felt a bit awkward.

Machka 

OK, I'll try to post a video ...

Rowan took this of me on the weekend ...

https://flic.kr/p/Ewz3Kd It doesn't seem enthusiastic about coming up here, but I think it should work if you click the link.


The thing is, you don't have to put weight on your arms when you stand or do a standing start like this ... most of the weight should be on your foot/feet.

Stick69

My wife and I rented a tandem for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Perhaps a few observations from a novice will help.

My goal was to be in the saddle before my power leg was at the bottom of the first stroke. My stoker had both feet on the pedals and we did not pause our pedaling.

I found myself pre-loading for the start. We had to go through 8 or 10 stop signs between the rental shop and the bike trail. At each stop my wife would put my power pedal at 45 degrees from vertical. I would inevitably scooch forward for a better view at the stop sign and my power pedal would dip down to 90 degrees or lower. I could have ask my wife to raise the pedal but what I did instead was put my power foot on the pedal and then roll back to raise the pedal and compress my power leg. This put my leg in a very powerful position but shifted my hips behind my grounded foot. I then leaned forward to initiate rolling forward and as my hips passed over my grounded foot I pressed hard on my power leg. If I felt like I wasn't going to make it into the saddle before I bottomed out I applied a little brake resistance. You could also use a higher gear as suggested earlier.

At the suggestion of the rental shop we started with the captain's seat a little low. I moved it up after about a mile when my knees started complaining but it was still about an inch low.

It sounds like each team finds their own way. I went with my strength which is my ability to take stairs two at a time in a slow controlled climb. Your team may have different strengths but starting with my power leg in a powerful position and a little momentum going forward worked for us.

waynesulak

You certainly look comfortable with that technique. I wonder though how do you start when stopped on a hill? For example there is a stop side halfway up a fairly steep hill. If you stop at the sign for traffic, then how do you start since it is impossible to coast?

If you have a workable method for that situation then you can try that method on the tandem as well.

Machka 

I try to avoid getting into that situation. In fact, I might have encountered a situation like that maybe once or twice in all the years I've been cycling.

I'm not a hill climber, so I try to avoid hills whenever possible. Even more so on the tandem. We simply do not ride the tandem in really hilly terrain. I'm just not comfortable with that ... going up or down.

If I am climbing (with a single bicycle), I prefer not to stop unless I'm planning to get off and walk. For the most part, I'd rather just get into a comfortable gear and keep going to the top. Or if I am going to stop, I pick my moments and stop on a flatter bit of the climb or a roadside turnout or something. And I haven't encountered a lot of stop signs halfway up the hills I climb.

If I do find myself in the rare situation where I stop and then attempt to get going again, I do the thing where you point the bicycle across the road to get a bit of a coast going and then swing it around to continue climbing.