noisebeam

It seems kids learn early it is OK to mess with cyclists. This kid jumped out in front of me to play 'chicken'. The closer I got the further he edged into road. I held line at 25mph and braced for the worst.
Al

closetbiker

The text says,

"These days, more and more people are riding bicycles...you can expect to see them on the road at any time, day or night...be aware that bicycle riders have the same rights and responsibilities on the road as drivers...Yield to cyclists as you would any vehicle...If a cyclist needs to make a left turn, they need to move over to the left lane...if the lane is narrow...a cyclist has the right to move out toward the middle for safety...Allow plenty of following distance...Make sure there is enough space if you want to pass a cyclist...make eye contact...avoid honking your horn..."

genec

This is where something like a Zounds would come in handy... one blast from that would waken up his world.

Uh, so did you eventually just mow him down?

closetbiker

There is no reason anyone with a drivers licence in BC should not be aware of how to deal with cyclists.

If they are unaware, it's their own fault for forgetting what was once taught to them.

noisebeam

I felt in this situation the best response was to ignore the kid and pedal onward with no adjustment to line. He was mainly doing it to show off to his peers and any reaction on my part (horn, swerving away, yelling, slowing, etc.) would have provided the desired result. No there was thankfully no collision, passed with about 18" to spare, even though I braced myself I would have also done a very last second swerve to avoid collision because I don't want to get hurt. I was also quite sure the kid didn't really want an impact either and wouldn't step further into my path at the last second.

Al

closetbiker

...but can you tell just how far that cyclist is away from that car that has just parked and is opening his door?

I don't think you have the type of depth perception from the picture that you would have in real life.

It's quite possible that cyclist is going to look over his shoulder, make a signal and move toward the center of the lane to avoid that door while the car following the bike, yeilds to the cyclists right of way.

noisebeam

Look first off its a tiny cartoon so its a little hard to make assessments
But from what I see and try and relate the cartoon to reality, as cyclist I would have long ago been outside of the parking area to avoid that swerve in the first place. Give the clear message to the driver of the vehicle that the cyclist is going to go ahead of them and that no attempt should be made to pass.
I am not arguing that the handbook is not giving awareness of cyclists or that the picture is a wrong refection of the unfortunate reality, just that even better would be to show cyclists using full lane as an even better message to new motorists.
Al

genec

I wonder if actually speeding up might have made any impression on him. He looks quite large, so being able to intimidate him before his peers might have made an impression on them.

noisebeam

Relative to other concerns on the commute this was minor, so putting metal energy into it in post is fun, but kinda silly. Speeding up would barely have been perceptible to a head on observer. I was going 25mph or so, so at best in that short distance perhaps I could have gone up to 28mph.

The main reason I posted it in this thread is that I think it shows that even before becoming motor drivers, kids already have the mindset to 'mess' with cyclists - then they get a drivers license and instead of 'messing' with cyclist with their bodies, start harrasing with thousands of pounds of steel and speed. This is not the only time kids have messed with me and I have heard stories from others on these forums. Far more concerning was the time a kid swung and threw a giant palm frond into my path when I was not expecting it. (palm fronds have nasty thorns on them)

Al

genec

Hear ya loud and clear... didn't realize you were already zipping along.

Tend to agree with your thoughts here. Also very familiar with palms.

closetbiker

I'll give you that the picture is small so it might not be easy at first glance to get a good perspective of everything on it (looking at the actual hard copy, it's much more clear) but I still think the drivers book shows people how to respect all road users and if someone was to stray from that instruction, it's not the fault of the educators.

Helmet Head

The difference between the Notion and that law is that the Notion applies to cyclists specifically because they're on BIKEs and it is applied to them all the time, not only when they are slower than other traffic AND it is safe and reasonable for them to keep to the outside.

It is the Notion, not the law, that makes it difficult for you and others to remember that speed positioning does not apply for anyone, including bicyclists, at intersections and their approaches (which you recently made evident when you argued that the bike lane to the left of the right only lane puts the cyclist in the "correct" position, on the outside edge of other traffic - as he goes through the intersection).

In this particular case (picture from the manual cover posted earlier) - where the cyclist's path is obstructed up ahead by a parked car, and the safe and practicable path will require riding outside of the door zone - the cyclist should already be adjusting to that new path. It is internal subconscious acceptance of The Notion that blinds one from seeing that, while Al has shown that he is free of the shackles of the Notion, by immediately noticing the problem with the cyclist's position in that picture.

closetbiker

...maybe that cyclist just started out from his starting point at the curb and is going out angling into the proper position when he passes that parked car way out ahead. Maybe the driver sees many variable possibilities that could occur as he drives and he is doing a good job taking care for each one of them...

LittleBigMan

Al, the sad thing is that kids don't know how dangerous that is. My worst accident on a bike (sent me to the hospital and gave me permanent facial scarring) was caused by a young pedestrian who thought it would be cool to "clothesline" me.

I'm not trying to teach you anything, but now when I see a conflict with a pedestrian, I move way out into the street. I'll take my chances with motorists, first.

genec

So according to you, on a 45 or 50MPH WOL I should negotiate to take the lane at each intersection? Even while the light is green and the traffic is flowing at their rate of whatever? I find this especially rediculous while moving up Genesee a 8MPH while that dense traffic flys past me at 50MPH.

But is that what you are saying... that I should be centered at every intersection, despite the speed of traffic? I want that statement clarified.

billh

This Notion is making me . . . Nauseous!

noisebeam

I think the Notion was an Albatross a couple months ago.

Al

eubi

The pic was too small for me to see clearly.

Is there someone next to the parked car, getting ready to open the door, or is is the door already open?

Yes, the cyclist should be taking the lane in this case. Thanks for the pic!

closetbiker

It's funny what each of us take from something.

The thread is about educating and understanding where cycling fits in with road use. Here is a good example where cycling is included and the rights of cyclists not only are explained, but put on the front cover of the drivers instructional booklet used by everyone in the province, and some speculate on possible positioning and future difficulties facing a theoretical cyclist in an animated illustration. Anyone notice that there are many other potential hazards that a driver may have to deal with in the photo?

Jeez. Give it a break. Front page coverage, explaination of full rights of cyclists in a text that everyone must understand and pass a test on before being allowed to drive a car. What more do you want?

I-Like-To-Bike

I do, I do. There may be a bunny chasing a squirrel in the next county or maybe a few pine cones might be lying on the road, or maybe some sewer gas could send a manhole cover askew just on the other side of that deadly parked car, which has doors of mass destruction.

What more could an advocate want? Lemme guess - Why not big red letter banner over the road reading "Cyclists: Buy the Book or Die!"

genec

Hey Al... (noisebeam) and others... what do you think about this situation... can you or would you even try to take a lane and be centerish at each and every intersection while moving in a WOL with 45MPH+ traffic?

genec

I for one would be willing to bet that not one question on the test is about how motorists should deal with cyclists.

I know that in the California handbook there are some 65 pages of information of which 2 pages are devoted to motorcycles and bicycles... and not one single question on the test deals with how motorists in cars should deal with those on two wheels.

I just want at least one question on the test:

"Bicycists have the right to ride on the street and use the full lane."

a) Anytime the cyclist feels they need to.
b) Anytime.
c) All the time.
d) On every road except controlled access freeways.

(note, there is no real wrong answer...)

genec

I for one would be willing to bet that not one question on the test is about how motorists should deal with cyclists.

I know that in the California handbook there are some 65 pages of information of which 2 pages are devoted to motorcycles and bicycles... and not one single question on the test deals with how motorists in cars should deal with those on two wheels.

I just want at least one question on the test:

"Bicycists have the right to ride on the street and use the full lane."

a) Anytime the cyclist feels they need to.
b) Anytime.
c) All the time.
d) On every road except controlled access freeways.

(note, there is no real wrong answer...)

genec

I for one would be willing to bet that not one question on the test is about how motorists should deal with cyclists.

I know that in the California handbook there are some 65 pages of information of which 2 pages are devoted to motorcycles and bicycles... and not one single question on the test deals with how motorists in cars should deal with those on two wheels.

I just want at least one question on the test:

"Bicycists have the right to ride on the street and use the full lane."

a) Anytime the cyclist feels they need to.
b) Anytime.
c) All the time.
d) On every road except controlled access freeways.

(note, there is no real wrong answer...)

genec

I for one would be willing to bet that not one question on the test is about how motorists should deal with cyclists.

I know that in the California handbook there are some 65 pages of information of which 2 pages are devoted to motorcycles and bicycles... and not one single question on the test deals with how motorists in cars should deal with those on two wheels.

I just want at least one question on the test:

"Bicycists have the right to ride on the street and use the full lane."

a) Anytime the cyclist feels they need to.
b) Anytime.
c) All the time.
d) On every road except controlled access freeways.

(note, there is no real wrong answer...)