HTupolev

I don't think that's changed much at all, aside from the high-end getting higher.

600 is Ultegra, and Shimano hasn't compromised their build quality over time. $1700 today is where you start getting into Ultegra-level stuff on bike-shop bikes of the non-big-name brands. The frame on such a bike isn't triple-butted Ishiwata, but it's likely to have very nice aluminum construction with clean welding work and fancy specialized hydroforming for all major tubes, and paired with a decent carbon fork.

I wouldn't.

1. Although the geometry of the brake levers on that Miyata is an improvement over the earlier "non-aero" generation, the brakes themselves are much less effective than Shimano's current-gen high-end calipers.
2. It weighs several pounds more than a comparable-tier bike today.
3. The stock gearing is terribly narrow-range and has an absurdly high granny gear. Yes, it was normal at the time for high-end road bikes to bottom out at around 50". But that doesn't mean it was a good idea; even the pros sometimes climb hills in much lower gears than that, when those lower gears are available. One of my older road bikes bottoms out at 40", and despite that bike having nice tight "feel" on climbs, I fatigue far faster on hilly group rides than on my other road bikes. And because the rear derailleur has such a short cage, significantly widening the gearing range could require multiple component changes.
4. Downtube shifters maintenance easily and make for nice one-handed double-shifts. But for multi-range gearing schemes, they're in most respects outclassed by brifters. With STI levers I can get near-zero-latency shifts from two different hand positions, and I can shift while hammering out of the saddle.

prathmann

This discussion makes me have a lot of sympathy with the economists who are charged with determining the official inflation rate and corresponding cost-of-living adjustments. Based on ones point of view we have arguments for the bicycle inflation rate over the last 30 years being anywhere from 0% to 500%. Similar issues arise with many other consumer goods - what 1988 car do you compare to one in 2018 as having equal value? And even worse when it comes to electronic items where nothing even closely equivalent was available back then.

Maelochs

Brifters, cartridge bearings ... I have a couple "cheap" bikes and neither came with a "creaky seat post" or any of that. All the pars were durable and fully serviceable. Nothing stellar ... but when buying a bike for $400-$800 that's not what you'd expect.

Difference in 'performance" all depends on what and how you measure. Would i rather climb a hill on a 42-lb bike or a 22-lb bike? Not a tough question. Five or six friction-shift gears on the stem or down tube versus 8 or 11 in brifters? No contest. Cheesy side-pull brakes with no adjusters vs. dual-pivot fully adjustable brakes with quick-release for easy wheel change? They do more than stop better. Alloy vs. steel rims? Hah.

Cheap seat on cheap bikes has stayed constant.

My $800 Fuji came with Spyre mechanical discs and a 105 drive train (except an FA crank which so far has operated flawlessly---I guess the crank never read the hate-mail.) Al frame, CF fork. in what way would it Not "out-perform" my old Schwinn Suburban?

Anyway .... it is ultimately preference. We each like what we like, and think it is best. Not a matter of fact, and matter of taste.

I love my old steel Raleigh---with 10-speed Tiagra and Vuelta wheels. I like it a lot better than i did when i bought it in as-new condition when it was about three years old---and I liked it a lot then. But I went from 27 to 700c, ten speeds to 20, modern bars and brakes, stem and saddle, and the bike feels better in every way.

But ... that's just me and my opinion.

MRT2

- I like a lugged steel frame as much as the next guy, but if we are talking performance, I think mid to higher end modern bikes outclass even the very best lugged steel from 30 or 35 years ago. There is an argument to be made for steel. IMO, steel bikes look better, are somewhat more comfortable, etc, etc. But you do pay a price in performance.

- It is absolutely fair to compare the cost of more modern technology compared to the cost of older technology. And when you take a hard look at things, I think you would agree that while old component groups could be durable and nicely finished, 30 years on and we are 7, 8, or even 10 generations more advanced. Such that the cheapest groups today outclass the best groups of 30 years ago in performance, if not beauty.

- It is true bikes are built to a price point and after a number of years of hard riding, you might need to replace or even upgrade some parts. But not many. My modern (steel) bike is 6 years old, and while I have replaced the wheels, and consumables like chain, cassette, tires, and brake pads, the major components are still original and probably good for at least another 6 years, maybe more. But since you bring it up, if you take a hard look at lower end or even mid priced bikes 30 years ago, there was a fair amount of crap sold back then, too.

MRT2

Now that is pretty cool, but all those upgrades must have cost as much as the bike cost years ago.

Maelochs

lol , yup ... at least as much .... even in inflation-adjusted dollars and at bargain-basement Ebay prices. But I just got back from rising the thing and I don't regret a penny spent.

Cougrrcj

Not me. I'm a Luddite. I've NEVER spent over $200 for a bike - and that goes back over 40 years to when I bought my S-10S new in 1976! You want value? pick up a classic lugged steel bike. Even sub 25-pounders can be found for under $200 if you take the time to look. Two years ago I spent $120 for my sub-24-pound SunTour Cyclone-equipped '86 Miyata 710. Would a 'world-class' rider find it competitive today? No. But it is good enough for me as a 95-percentile casual rider. Yeah, I still ride a 17-19mph cruising pace, which i don't consider to be all that bad for a 60-year-old!

MRT2

And that is fine. If you know what you are doing, you can find an incredible bargain used bike. I am the OP but I am down with good vintage. My wife still occasionally rides her 1977 Peugeot UO8. My son has an early 80s Gitane modded with modern brifters, also lugged steel, that we picked up for around $200 a few years ago.

But not everyone wants to deal with classic and vintage. The point of the thread though was the value of new bikes.

jefnvk

My Peugeot PH10 was about 26#, and I sold that for more than $200. It was a six speed with an outdated cassette which would require either used stuff on eBay to replace, or a new back wheel to modernize. Under $200 on CL right now near me will get you beat up 90s MTBs and 60/70s Schwinns. Lets just not tell anyone about that Flamingo Team Fuji I just noticed...

My Univega was $75, 600 TriColor and about 21#. One of the smoothest bikes I've ever ridden. Yes, you can find some good deals, but in four years of CL scouring, I haven't come across much that is even remotely as close to as good of a deal. The only reason I got that is I responded within minutes of it going up and the seller had pretty crappy pics to the point I didn't even quite know what it was going to be (was hoping for the 70s version).

Thing is? Yes, if you have the luxury of time, you can eventually find a good deal. That good deal can take months to come across, though, and you may well miss many before you snag one. The flippers with cash in hand and no day jobs get most of the deals before they even come to my attention.

Compare that to the deal my wife got last spring: model year old Specialized Dolce for half off, $500ish. 25#, 9 speed Tiagara (IIRC), ready to go brand new. I may have found something used at a better value, but that was pretty cheap to pick up and run with, over spending $200 on something 30 years old that needed another $100 worth of consumables and a day of fiddling.

1500SLR

The fiddling bit is half the fun for me aside from the fact that you're riding something that very few other people are riding. The only thing is having to deal with a bike hanging on the wall occasionally due to the lack of parts availability.

no motor?

When I started riding again for exercise 14 years ago I bought a used bike knowing I'd need to ride it for a while to see if I was going to like it enough to stick with it. I've debated buying a nicer/newer bike over the years after upgrading parts that wore out and adding new ones it didn't have and have come to the conclusion that replacing it with a new bike would run about $1k, and there's just no way I can justify that as long as my current bike still does what I need it to do and I still like it. I know the last part is the key there, but the new bikes don't interest me that much when I'm in the shop buying parts.

1500SLR

New bikes don't really interest me at all. The laws of consumerism come into play. I've seen $15k bikes hanging on the wall (which is about where the market tops out). Last I was out the back of where my brother works there was a $15k Cinelli hanging on the wall I guess because somebody simply wanted something exotic. It doesn't impress me really, its rampant consumerism. So far I've spent a bit over $1k in fine tuning my Trek. I've seen a fair few exotic bikes and had the opportunity to even see/ride a BMC Team Machine when my brother was working for a BMC shop.

I don't get it. Apart from the fact that carbon road bikes as daily rides goes against my own personal beliefs (yours may vary) they're just bikes and ultimately at the ripe old age of 34 I'm never going to see any advantage in a super light frame such as the BMC above.

Maelochs

I do all my own work, so I have to enjoy 'fiddling." But as you note, parts are hard to find and for me, riding time is limited.

As far as what other people ride ... i really could not care less how it compares with whatever I ma riding. If I see a person on a bike, i will check outhe bike because I like bikes ... but I don't care about it as a status thing. A Walmart bike, a gold-plated Emonda, an Chinese Flying Pigeon, a late-60s Schwinn, anything by the big four ... who cares. I don't feel special if no one else is riding what I am riding or if everyone else is.

I also don't care how fast someone is on some other bike. That's all about the rider. We know that.

I am glad you like your old bikes. But to me ... just int he parts availability and maintenance you prove they do not "perform" as well. A bike on the wall is "performing as art, not as a bike.

I am going to spend a little time after work adjusting the rear derailleur and indexing on my Workswell 066. If it takes too long ... I will ride another, equally modern, or updated bike. Because ... they work. They "perform." When I need a part, iI have a plethora of sources and can shop for price.

I had a unique sort of SunTour Superbe Tech L rear derailleur on my old Cannondale. (Supposedly the worst derailleur SunTour ever made---super-smooth shifts, And they self-destructed if they got two pieces of dust on them.) I spent a Long time looking for one, and paid what I had to ... and when that one got wrecked ... looked again ... and gave up. Cheap modern Shimano shifts every bit as well, and I can spend time riding, not shopping.

There are benefits and drawbacks to every choice.

I am in no way putting down you or your bike or your preferences. But ... the premise of the thread is that one can buy a better bike today for the same (inflation-adjusted) dollars than they could several decades ago.

If you like limited gear choices, downtube friction shifting, less-than-stellar brakes, heavy wheels .... awesome. But you will have a hard time convincing me or most people that alloy rims and dual-pivot brakes with a centering adjustment, brifters, at least twice the useable gear choices, and equal reliability for the same dollar is not a better deal.

We weren't really talking about old, used bikes ... which obviously are hard to find and hard to maintain in original condition, but are equally good rides for those who want them.

Better have a back-up.

1500SLR

Rest assured by this time next week there will be one less bike hanging on the wall. There is an art to rebuilding old bikes no one cares about. Personally I think that's cool to enjoy the art of what we do in building something rather than just buying something and paying to take the credit of the work that the mechanic spent putting it together for you. Both my Giant and my Trek have modern brakes and brifters with 20 gears to choose from. My Trek once its done will even have DI2 equipment I can bolt any accessory I choose onto.

But you're right, my personal choices aren't someone elses, and not everyone can buy an old used bike to do the work on themselves. There are a lot of good cable shift bikes out there now given what is now Tiagra is what everyone was lusting after 6 or 7 years ago. You can't really go wrong old or new. It just comes down to personal preference.