Clythio

Destroyed the field at the points race final race from the first lap.
Leaded all the way, not exactly on a very aero position, bringing all others suffering on his wheels for each of the sprint laps.
Was on the front for maybe... 70% of time.
I was there looking at the race, and it was very impressive.
A Diesel... :-)

nslckevin

I saw that race. The 60+ guys were on the same schedule as us, right after the 55+ races. Pardon my french, but my thought was "how is that fat **** kicking everybody's ass like that?" Seriously, the guy had a huge belly (even for a master's track rider! :-) ) and had a very un-aero riding position because of that belly.

Maybe he was desperate to get a world title before Larry Nolan turns 60 and slaughters them all next year. :-)

It never crossed my mind that he was on the scooby snacks. Though that is probably more due to my lack of imagination in that regard...

BTW, here is a video of that race. I tried to queue it up for the start of that race, but it doesn't seem to work for me. If it doesn't, scroll forward to 4:59:00.

Baby Puke

Seriously, what is wrong with people?

carleton

Not very aero at all:

tobukog

A rambling rant:

Not to turn this post into one on doping, of which I am sure there are many, but....

1. Is it just me, or has pretty much every single rider lit up by USADA this year been a master? Have there been any reliable estimates of the percentage of dirty masters riders?

2. I get that it's fun to smash the pedals and smash your competitors. Hell, I like it. In addition, I don't even think it's a real crime at the Masters level -- you're basically robbing some other competitive freak the opportunity to stand on the podium. But damn, even after setting aside all the health aspects, it's so petty, sordid, egotistical, and ugly that it boggles the mind. It ruins the sport for me -- ultimately I want competitive cycling to be a sport that I can encourage my 5 year old daughter to take up as a life long hobby.

3. I had a pretty good season last year -- I think I had a 15% strike ratio if you include elite races. If the number of Masters dopers are as high as some people guess (20%?25%?) It throws shade on my results. I don't like the idea that people might doubt me even people I don't know. I want to feel good about what I do. Frankly, if the IOC is willing to ban Russia, I wouldn't blame it if they wanted American masters banned from International competition. Apples to oranges maybe, and it wouldn't make me happy, but it would sort of be understandable.

4. Is this a product of the "win at all costs" and "take any shortcut" mentality that we Americans are known for? I kind of feel the proliferation of "Age Clinics" and that type of mentality as a distinctively American phenomenon that's helping drive doping in the Masters ranks. It seems as if the American medical establishment is really quick to push the envelope on drug usage in very questionable ways -- look at the whole opioid epidemic in the US. People have always known opiates are highly addictive --did the doctors (and patients who also should have known better) succumb to a quick buck and a quick fix to the challenging medical problem of pain management?

Rambles over.

queerpunk

USADA's RaceClean program has definitely targeted masters - it ramps up amateur testing, and instead of doing random testing (which is real shot-in-the-dark ****), it does targeted testing based on tips. I don't know what standards they use to determine something like reasonable suspicion.

As for reliable estimates - no, there are none. Tested positive divided by total population doesn't make sense because obviously testing doesn't catch everybody, and any other estimate would require info about the number of doping, untested people, and either way you are just guessing. 25% is crazy. No. Look, most Master's racers are just having fun participating. Fewer are really competitive, and fewer still are willing to cheat to improve.

topflightpro

I kind of get the doping thing, particularly among masters racers.

Several years ago, I suffered a pretty severe injury. It took me out of racing and training for a full year. By the time I could start training again, it was like starting over. I was struggling for awhile, and it was depressing. At one point, I thought, "Man, if I could just take something to get back to where I was, that would be so nice." And when I thought that, I realized there was something I could take. I could dope.

I opted against that.

But other people don't. There was a local guy who got popped for doping. He had multiple rainbow stripes. He basically admitted that he started doing it because he wasn't keeping up anymore, and he didn't like losing.

Divebrian

Is there any place that list the riders that were tested for Masters Nationals or Worlds that failed the test? I would be interested to see if any in my age group had issues.

carleton

Yeah, there are a handful of reasons:

A) In order to do more than one can do on one's own eating mama's cooking.
B) In order to recover faster from individual workouts/races.
C) To speed up recovery from injuries (we recover more slowly as we age).
D) To recover one's rightful position in the pecking order (e.g. Rider 1 is fastest naturally. Rider 2 is 2nd fastest naturally. Rider 2 dopes and becomes fastest. Rider 1 dopes to regain top his "rightful" top status.)
E) To hang on and fend off newcomers (the aging professional being usurped by new blood).

Any one of those can be incentive enough for some to dope. Combinations of them are worse.

Further, when the penalty isn't sufficient to deter doping, it will happen as a function of human nature. There are some people who will simply do things if they think they can get away with it or they rationalize that the risk of getting caught is worth it.

For example: If a pro athlete is aging and there is a 100% chance of losing his spot on the team to the new young buck, then it's in his best interest to dope with a less than 100% chance of being caught, because there is a 100% chance that he'll be out of a job if he doesn't.

I wonder if shaming people is enough. Not saying that there should be more punishment for amateur sportsmen/sportswomen. Not sure what would be fair but also deterring punishment.

Maybe if doping tests became cheap enough that every medalist at Jr, Elite, Masters Nationals and Worlds is tested for doping by default as well as random and not-so-random tests?

tobukog

I just don't envision it getting that much cheaper. When I was tested this year, I was pretty impressed with each kit they use to test an athlete. All the correct matched labeling on special sealed bottles and the forms everyone has to sign to confirm they received sealed containers with the correct labeling/coding that was matched to the athlete. And then you also have to hire the personnel to carry out these tests. I'm sure that a large part of the expense comes from the analysis itself, but I can't really see the procedural / material costs becoming that much more affordable. It was pretty different from peeing in a cup at a doctor's office.

carleton

One way (albeit, probably unpopular), would be to distribute the costs among all of the competitors:

Up Sides:
- Give the competitors confidence that they are playing on an "even playing field"
- Deter would-be cheaters.
- Smaller number of participants in a field due to increased fees.

Down Sides:
- Increased entry fees.
- Smaller number of participants in a field due to increased fees.

I don't know. I'd imagine that some form of this system is already in play to pay for the tests that are currently being administered.

1incpa

Isn't this what they're already doing with the race clean program?

carleton

Quite possibly. I have no idea. Do they test all on the podium or just some?

Baby Puke

I personally DON'T get it, especially for masters racers. In my opinion it's pathetic to cheat when the guy/woman next to you is a parent holding down a full time job with the usual life responsibilities. I understand there are rationalizations, but in my opinion, if you are going there, something is wrong, deeply wrong with you. Lifetime ban, please.

southernfox

LOL (sorry), no.

You can see their reports on how many people they test each year (and they send out an email each month listing the YTD stats, and compared to previous year(s)). It's a drop in the bucket. I've podiumed big pro races and NEVER been tested. Many races they say that there's a chance there will be testing...but it never happened. ...but those are women's fields. YMMV for men's fields.

southernfox

Barely any.

queerpunk

well, that is what RaceClean does, though - it's funded by a license surcharge, it tests amateurs, and it catches the cheaters.

i don't think "ubiquity of testing" is a good metric to assess whether a testing program is working. ubiquitous testing would be an atrocious waste of money. in RaceClean's annual report from 2016 they reported that they had a budget of $150,000 and conducted 45 tests. That's $3333 per test. Testing is expensive.

RaceClean works on tips, not random or widespread testing. It HAS to. Broad coverage would just be financially unrealistic and leave USAC in shambles - not just the organization but the sport, as funding for a lot of other things about developing and maintaining the sport, not just policing it, dry up.

Divebrian

On the other side of the coin, it may be that parent next to you that is holding down a full time job with the usual responsibilities that is the one cheating as they are a parent, have a full time job with the usual life responsibilities and can't dedicate the training time to get the results they desire......

rensho3

For Masters Natz in 2017, the seemed to target those doing the 500; at least that's the only people I saw tested on the two days I was there. They tested the winner, but no one else. (I was tested ) They may have tested some of the Enduro's, but I did not see the testing lists for them. The testing done there was run by USADA.

At worlds, they tested winners of almost every event. (Sadly, I did not get tested ) I say almost because there may have been some that did not test. It could have been all winners. I don't know any non-winner who was tested. Again, just my observation, not necessarily truth. The testing was run by WADA, although it may have been administered by USADA on contract. Not being tested, I don't know for sure.

Franklin27

What a mess...

https://pvcycling.wordpress.com/2017...oopy-mcdongle/

Franklin27

Hahaha! That is basically my riding position on my track bike. I got a very small frame that suits my individual pursuit time trial position and every time I want to ride in bunch races I have to put my extra large stem and road bar... and reach is never long enough.

carleton

Thanks for that link. It's a good read. My favorite snip:

DMC707

mine too --- but not because I have a small frameset

carleton

pfft. Flexibility is overrated.

(at least that's what I keep telling myself)

queerpunk

lack of flexibility is one thing. having your arms go straight down to your bars is a sign of a whole mess of fit problems.