pepperbelly

I looked up zone 2 a while back but did the math wrong. I stay around 130bph. According to the formula my zone 2 should be 90-105. I guess I have been in zone 3 most of the time.
I need to take it easier.

Jughed

Z2 should be 70%+/- of your max HR. So that 100 range works if 130 is your max (and if 130 is your max, you may want to get that looked at by a doc)

Compared to many here, I have a relatively low max HR for my age - 168 - my upper Z2 is 125. 130 max would be extremely low IMHO.

SpedFast

I'm behind the curve here so maybe I can get a little help. How do you calculate your max HR? Or do you just push yourself till you drop and do a quick HR check before you pass out? I'm trying to be serious because I really have no idea. Of course, I'm still on my first cup of Java too, so that might be my problem. TIA

pepperbelly

The way I calculated my max heart rate was to subtract my age from 220. My zone 2 target heart rate should be 60%-70% of that.
I am 65 so my max should be 155. 60% of that is 93 and 70% is 108.
I have been averaging about 129 while riding and hit about 159 on a climb at the lake.

Jughed

I only see that max number on my 2nd or 3rd VO2 max effort. It can be hard to reach max HR on a bike - often ones legs will give out first.

VO2 max efforts = 3-5 min all out, everything you have, rest and repeat... or to quote one of those online coaches - "ride until you see Jesus". I'm not real religious, but I think I've seen him once or twice doing that, and that is when my HR is 168-170.

Jughed

Yep, sorry, my math was fuzzy with the 130...

john m flores 

The best rule of thumb that I've read about Zone 2 is that it's a conversational pace. It sounds like you are riding alone, but keep this in mind, especially when you are climbing the hills on your route. If necessary, shift into a lower gear and just spin your way to the top.

Best of luck!

terrymorse 

Your max. HR is probably higher than 159.

I wouldn't be too concerned about dialing in your zones precisely. Until you start getting into many hours per week of training, where managing accumulated fatigue becomes important, it doesn't really matter that much.

SpedFast

So that's all that's to it? Flat out for 3-5 mins and repeat then check your heart rate? I'll do that today. I'm curious now. Thank you, Smokey

Mtracer

The problem with the 220 - age calculation is it is known to be a poor fit for older riders and it's just an average. While it's been a while since I looked into this I think it is something like 220 - age +/- 20 BPM. I'm 63 and my max is about 185 BPM. So, I'm more like 220 - age + 28 BPM. Point is, 220 - age is a VERY general guideline, slightly better than nothing and really applies to the average of a population of people, not specific individuals. But you got to start with something.

My max is based on when I start to grey out on extremely hard efforts. I wish my relatively high max rate for my age meant I had an unusually high VO2 max or other characteristic. But I think all it really means is I have a rather small stroke volume. So, my heart has to beat fast to move enough blood around for my modest level of bike fitness.

Below is a graph of the error for actual max heart rate versus the 220-age that I found on the internet. So, you can see there are some values with over a +/-25 BPM difference. I found this here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7523886/

From this article
QUOTE
In comparison, the proportional bias evident in the other equations show that those with lower fitness and/or elderly individuals will have HRmax consistently underestimated, and fitter and/or younger individuals will have HRmax consistently overestimated.
END QUOTE

pepperbelly

I will see how I do with a lower avg. heart-rate but not as low at 90 or 95.
The last time my cardiologist did a treadmill stress test my output volume was still 65%-70%.
I really think most of my problems are simply from being out of shape. I retired in ‘20. The first 15 years I was doing very hard physical work. The last 4-5 years I supervised, and got soft.

MoAlpha

Don’t confuse stroke volume with ejection fraction, which is what you cite above.

pepperbelly

Ejection fraction is what I mentioned. I don’t know what stroke volume is but my doc said I was good.
I’m going to look up stroke volume now.

MoAlpha

Your EF is fine. The usual way to find out your stroke volume is to get studied in a physiology lab or start going down the tubes in the ICU.

cyclezen

Looks 'right'... and you're not as far 'out of it' as you might think... age + 20 is really quite off for anyone with a modicum of activity (not dealing with known issues...).
'climbing' is a form of 'interval' training, extended... keep at that hill at 159 ! the muscles will eventually keep up with you...
on uphills of any sort, my system goes straight from whatever HR I had before to well over 150 or more... skips the 130-140+ range...
I always used a simple 'sign' to know where my HR was (when not wearing an HRM) - if I can 'hear' my heartbeat, I'm close or in Z4... Really prominent, even loud, entering lower ranges of Z5.
Pretty much all I need to judge where my effort was going and the onset of getting 'shelled'...
Ride On
Yuri

Eric F 

I agree 100% that getting the body to true max HR on a bike is hard. Really hard. In my racer-boy days, I saw max HR numbers at the end of a sprint in a race, where I was putting every last watt of power into my bike for a long as I could possibly tolerate. It's a level of intensity that is deeply uncomfortable, and takes practice to understand how to push your body to that far. In my early-30s, I saw 207 a couple of times. When I quit racing at 35yo, it was 204. At 55, I don't inflict that level of suffering on my body very often, but the most recent time I did (desperate to stay with a group over the top of a short climb), it was 189.

For me, figuring out my zones is about how my body is reacting. I can feel the shift from zone 2 to zone 3 @ 149bpm. I know an extended FTP effort is going to put me at right about 170bpm. I can last about a minute at 180bpm, maybe a little more if I'm having a good day, but I also know I can repeat an effort like that quite a few times.

Jughed

Max cycling heart rate should be the qualification.

My zones are about 20bpm lower than yours... 170 bpm to me = a near death experience. I'm only 52 for what its worth.

70sSanO

Others have mentioned this. I’m in the camp of slower mph and more variety.

Slowing your speed does wonders for mileage. When I rode with my wife, I went much slower over the same route. At the end of the ride I was pretty refreshed and could have keep going much further to equal my normal workout level.

Any place new is exploring. Exploring is usually interesting. You concentrate more on the ride and less on speed and mileage.

In my opinion, throw your zones out the window, at least for now. If you are doing 12 miles consistently at zone 2/3, but struggle at 15 miles, it is not really helping.

Over time go from 12 to 20 and learn to ride and recover throughout the ride. You need to figure out how your body responds at different levels. Being able to back off and recover during a ride is important. But you need to learn what works for you.

John

pepperbelly

That sounds like what I need to do. I have been trying to go fast.

Mountain Mitch

I think you’ve had a lot of good advice here. We have certain things in common. I’m 69 and ride a Roubaix for most of my rides. But I have been riding a long time and also ski mountaineer in the winter. I go fairly quickly but try to keep a steady pace bearing in mind the target distance. I average around 20km/h on our mountainous terrain. If you are not climbing but you are panting then you are pushing too hard.

My ‘easy’ ride is over two modest mountain passes for a distance of 30 km. A more vigorous ride is again, two passes, for 50 km. I don’t feel particularly tired after those distances and hills don’t bother me (on the up - sometimes they do on excessively long downhills). However, I find I really don’t enjoy much more than 80 km. and seriously lag by 100 km. If I had more time to ride 80 km. more frequently I’d probably find graduating to 100 easier.

I strictly stay away from sugary drinks whether biking or skiing. They give you a short burst and then let you down with a crash. I think that’s why drinks like Gatorade are useful for hockey or football players. They want a short, sharp burst of energy. Instead I use electrolytes such as Nuun which have no sweetener at all. But, whatever you do, hydrate well.

Your shoulder pain suggests to me that you maybe up on the bars too much or riding with your elbows locked. Try and relax your shoulders while riding and stay in the drops as much as you can on the flats or downhills.

Clyde1820

An "intervals" approach might help, to gradually build the ability to work through longer rides.

Back in the day, I used to do distance running. Lots of 10K and half marathon racing, as well. The first couple of years were tough, learning what my body was capable of doing ... much of it, with respect to that recovery within the route which others speak of. Fartlek type "speed play" during a run. Overall, a given longer distance of run would be at a relatively slower pace, but there would be frequent shorter intervals of higher speeds, even bursts of power and speed, followed by a recovery period back at the lower "base" pace of the route.

Over time, the body would get comfortable with this, pushing its recovery ability and allowing a gradual improvement in the overall time. As each of those intervals got harder and somewhat longer, the body learned to eventually recover easily, even with perhaps dozens of these intervals across the run. Helped, when needing to push hard for a hilly section, or to overtake a competitor.

A good slower warm-up period, an overall lower route pace, but with numerous shorter intervals. You'll need to play with how hard to push during an interval, for how long, and how much recovery time following that interval your body requires before attacking another interval. In time, you ought to see some improvements in overall performance, route speeds.

Nice thing is, anybody can do this. Just find a route pace that'll work for your given ability. Then, play with how many, how intense, how much recovery and how long of a route. If you can do this across two or three routes you frequently ride, you can document the efforts and chart the improvement over time.

pepperbelly

That sounds like a plan. Thanks!

rm -rf

I like the advice in the posts above for longer, moderate paced riding with some random fast sprints added.

There's a local short "hill" of maybe 30-45 feet of elevation, and I can go all-out full blast up it and reach the top in about 15 seconds. It's a fun challenge to see if I can hold the max pace all the way up.

Sometimes I pick out a goal ahead -- a utility pole, or a driveway, etc, and try to hold a fast pace to it. Without a "finish line", I tend to back off the fast pace much earlier!

Mountain Mitch

Our ‘hills’ tend to be a bit more….lumpy! 😂

pepperbelly

😄
My hills aren’t so lumpy.