surfjimc

Well stated Safari. The beauty of touring is that you can go high end or you can go with what you have. It doesn't really matter. What matters is getting out to ride and enjoying the freedom that comes with it. Like I said, there is an incredible amount of knowledge and experience in this forum. It would be nice to see it without all the judgment. What we want and what we need are often at odds. That is ok. I definitely didn't need the Chris King headset I bought for my current build, but I sure am happy that I saved the extra money and got what I wanted, even if it meant taking longer to complete the build.
The OP asked about a cf seatpost. The idea has merit, we should explore it, as opposed to telling him he can get 10 Suguino AL seatposts to do the same job for the money and spend the leftover on other things. That doesn't expand our collective knowledge and move us forward, but it is probably true.

Jiffyjam

Seems carbon would not be a good idea, or so I'm told. Not for a real tour anyway.

safariofthemind

Hi Jiffyjam. Depends on what you are doing. People generally think of touring as "fully loaded" touring with 70 lbs of equipments, spares and panniers and racks. There's the older style of rando-style light touring, with maybe 20 lbs of gear and staying in motels or under a tarp. And of course, there's credit card touring. I think carbon works fine for the last 2 and can be made to work ok for loaded touring if one is near good bike shops during the trip and knows how to keep one's machine going. For fully loaded touring outside developed areas with good LBS it would seem a little foolhardy unless one knows how to repair everything oneself and has all the spares. The other part is the specs on some carbon bikes are so close to the bare bones in order to save weight that the bike can't take as much loading and stop effectively.

Guess the bottom line is, know your machine and know thyself.

Jiffyjam

Sounds reasonable, Jamis now has a Carbon bike with rack and fender mounts. Its called the Xenith Endura 1. It'll also take 32mm tires w/o fenders. maybe the time is coming, who knows.

Bacciagalupe

Actually there's quite a few people who peruse both subforums, and already know about most of the various disciplinary overlaps.


Ehhh, screw that.

"Weight weenie" is not really a pejorative term, by the way; cyclists who are obsessed with weight refer to themselves by that term all the time. However, my opinion is usually that unless you are racing or doing L'Etape du Tour, spending phenomenal sums to shave off 1 pound of weight just does not make sense. And in a touring context, you'd get far more bang for your buck by shedding gear, or even adopting ultralight gear, over switching to ceramic bearings or a handful of CF bits.

rekmeyata

There are no bosses on this bike for either panniers or fenders, go to their web site and zoom in on the rear stays and the front fork droupouts. This is more intended for urban city riding.

Bacciagalupe

Just FYI, the Endura line is basically their "endurance" road bike, comparable to bikes like the Specialized Roubaix or Cannondale Synapse. It's almost certainly fine for short tours, but it's not really designed for touring.

MichaelW

Many ultra-light race oriented components are built to very fine tolerances with no extra material or strength. Ultra-light components work fine until you bash, score or abuse them.
During my recent tour I found myself doing bike maintenance in far from optimal conditions, cold, wet, dark, windy etc. It is hard to be kind to your bike when you add in tired and hungry.

Phil_gretz

What the OP didn't tell us was THE PROBLEM to be addressed by these proposed changes. I'm guessing that he's feeling vibration from the road, or may have hand numbness. The question of rolling resistance we'll set aside....

If these were the case, then the issues may have to do with fit and comfort on the bike. I wholeheartedly agree with previous posters who suggested: saddle, tires, and randonneur handlebars. Add to the list good cork tape, proper fitting of saddle-to-handlebar height, handlebar stem reach, and saddle position, and the OP might be much more comfortable.

The randonneur bars do relieve some of the hand discomfort by subtly changing the wrist angles. They are terrific (for me).

A good well-fitting and well adjusted saddle can do a lot for comfort.

I think that tires should be evaluated here, too. Although OP didn't specify, he may be feeling a harshness or (alternatively) a sluggishness for which the right tire choice could help.

Too many variables and not enough information, OP!

fietsbob

Bene Sugg : go for a Thudbuster seatpost rather than a carbon one..

LeeG

latex tubes and fatter tires, why not?

AsanaCycles

The Thudbuster seatpost is a great product!

I'm on either my 4th or 5th since around '98(?)

AsanaCycles

carbon vs metal

thats a bit of a vague and generalized comparison

personally I have yet to convert completely to a carbon MTB, altho I do think of it... and often.

Niner's Air Carbon with SRAM XX and their rigid carbon fork is coming in around 17lbs... complete bike

somewhere out there in cyber space is a comparison of a Niner Carbon fork vs ball peen hammer

and the same hammer

vs

steel fork

gee... you'd think the obvious... however... carbon wins.

its amazing.

perhaps its a bit of military tech trickling down... The Mother of Invention


when I think of a 20lb (ish) 29er and thinking I can do with about 8lbs of camping gear, etc...
I really do often times wonder of a 30lb(ish) bike that I can try to ride across the Great Divide.

Ceramic bearings... well... I just so happen to have a buddy who has decided to dump some of his personal money into that market. I'm not a gee-wiz tech guy, but I will say this about the whole of the deal. There are a lot of ceramic products out there that are simply selling the hype. Like many products there is a definite difference in quality.

i.e. Chris King: I've had headsets that have gone from frame to frame, and then re-sold yet again for $80 after 5 years. The same could be said for Phil products.

its an schism that is hard to over look.

while I'd love to buy a Rohloff hub, coming in around $1500, its hard for me to justify that cost vs a typical MTB drive train. altho there are times (in the wet, mud & snow) when I dream of that drivetrain, combined with an all steel drivetrain.

my typical drivetrain picks tally up to under $200 for cogset, chainrings, and chain. Thats for some pretty nice stuff like SRAM PG970 cogset, and the typical aluminum chainring setups.

on my cargo bike, surly big dummy, my choice BB is a UN26 which is around $15 or less, a set of square taper Truvativ cranks with steel chainrings which is about $40, a couple of decent chains, and a steel SRAM cogset... typically that drivetrain comes in around $120.

compared to the Rohloff at $1500 vs $120 that comes out to be around 10 years of use.

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but when I'd think of the "Out There" trips I like to delve into, and the commo I usually carry, I do often think of Carbon Race bikes.
simply put, in that a majority of my goal(s) are to simply experience a thru fare of a given area. Spending more time along the way, in various areas are saved for later times.

parking lot camping, from state park to the next, traveling down the pavement, with towns within 50-100 miles away... I don't really think too much about fancy race bike type of applications. save for shake down runs, like Monterey to Morro Bay in about 9hrs.

My personal observations of the Cycling Experience is that Commuting and Touring are the foundations of the whole.

Another buddy has his great grandfather's journals. A story that I like is when (around 1892) he and his brother rode their bikes from San Francisco to Santa Barbara in 4 days. Another story is a ride up to the geysers. Stated simply as matter of fact, never delving into the bikes they are riding, the gear, or even the hills they rode up.

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today's bike market is changing so fast that I'd probably stick to whatever bike the OP is riding, ride it a bunch and in the next year or two, simply buy a new bike.

clearly commuting and touring bikes are becoming more and more popular.
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no matter what the ordeal is...
ultimately when it comes to actual Travel
it comes down to adaptability vs a given environ
and that is going to dictate what you carry
maybe its 10 liters of water
or maybe its a credit card

these days, my personal approach is to use frame bags, and embrace the BikePacking method.
a majority of the touring that I have experienced is amazingly chalk full of opportunity.
there really is no need to carry a stove, a fork, a plate... none of that.

in the old days, indians would source acorns and the like from their environs
now days, we ride by store after store, cars drive by all day long, trash cans abound with aluminum cans, plastic forks by the hundreds are hidden at every connivence store. Plastic bags, paper, matches, and lighters are everywhere.
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carbon seatpost... I'm not too sure about that one.
only in light of what you may or may not strap to it.

i.e. I'm not too hot on the idea of using a large seatbag, like the typical BikePacking type. Only in that it can become a fair amount of weight, and the constant abrasion to the finish of the seatpost, may compromise the finish, thereby a possible failure.

then again, you can always consult the MFG, and maybe add a protective film to the interface area, like some electrical tape, or a large sticker.
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safariofthemind

That's interesting Bacciagalupe. When I first started posting in the forum, it was a little intimidating because the "old hands" seemed to put down newbies on road bikes and non-fully-loaded touring. Haven't felt that lately. That's a good thing. We need to grow touring so the manufacturers and inn keepers will cater more to it.

And yes, there are folks that seem fool hardy in both the road racing and in the touring world, though the vast majority seem to be just rational, regular folks out to have fun.

AsanaCycles

I think, that just like everything else, bicycling is subjected to the demands of business, and things change.

outboard bearings, long gone are carter pin cranks, STI, Ergo, etc... save the occult of friction shifters

NoReg

"Niner Carbon fork vs ball peen hammer

and the same hammer

vs

steel fork

gee... you'd think the obvious... however... carbon wins."

There is one on RIV where steel wins, though I suppose it is really the hammer that wins in either case. The reality is that the test is so stupid as to beggar belief. Stuff should be tested in a way that is meaningful if less spectacular. I do tend to think there is a great carbon fork out there, it's just a mater of whether anyone is making one. At price, there are many touring forks custom and otherwise in steel, probably none or near none in carbon, so for now I wonder. The big yuck for me is the aluminum steering tube and the lack of "BOs" for the rack. On the latter, Paul is now offering a scab for adding racks to canti studs with less badness. I think at a custom level it could be done even better, so maybe I will try a carbon fork just for the fun of it.

"my typical drivetrain picks tally up to under $200 for cogset, chainrings, and chain. That's for some pretty nice stuff like SRAM PG970 cogset, and the typical aluminum chainring setups. "

In fairness, a techhead is probably going to want some expensive shifters, and obviously derailleurs. For 995 I got my Rohloff package complete, and shiftable, though getting it on drops is an added expense.

"a fork, a plate"

Ethics of getting this stuff, and the enviro aside, a plastic dimestore fork is not a good experience. If you run a King headset, you owe yourself a better fork....

badamsjr

I have a heavy (33#) touring bike that I tow my trailer with. I decided against carbon for 'bang for the buck' reasons, as well as longevity in a touring environment. I also knew that it would be heavier than a road or commuter bike, so opted for a Thudbuster seatpost (like fietsbob suggests), since it is more effective at dampening road irregularities, and can be tuned for different rider weights.

I did use ceramics, and have found that many will VOCIFEROUSLY tell me (and you) that I am stupid for it. Even had one guy suggest that I work for the ceramics industry because I had the temerity to defend my decision! Not true, but maybe it made him feel superior for being so smart that he can not be fooled by "the advertising hype". JMO. I CAN say that I have gone to a 203mm disc front brake to slow my rig down on descents, but of course, getting up to high speed on these descents could NOT possibly have anything to do with lower rolling resistance.

YOU have to decide what works for you. Just be aware that there are some out there with no PERSONAL experience who will question your sanity or inteligence if you do not agree with THEM, and their opinions and advice. As always, Your Mileage May Vary, and the opinions expressed here are mine.

THAT'S MY STORY, AND I'M STICKING TO IT!

safariofthemind

Sounds like it made you happier. Power to you. Without people trying new things and collecting real world data our knowledge of what works would never progress. After you have a bunch of miles on the bike, you ought to post a "long term review" on this forum. Nothing like hard data to convince people.

IMO it all boils down to anecdotal evidence versus research. We can always point to a story to support our point of view. Collective data is much harder to come by. And as for the old codgers in this forum (myself included) you have to give people a little leeway - a lot of us have been stung by the "latest and greatest" since the 70's and we are, well, let's say we could all be residents of the "Show me" state.

Carbonfiberboy 

Carbon post will buy you some comfort. Don't worry about failure, but don't bolt a rack to it either. Saddle rails fail a lot more often than carbon posts. Same with carbon bars, especially the new wing bars. Very comfortable bar top position. However, you'd have to mount your light on the fork, which is really better anyway. Bigger upgrade would be carbon fork with aluminum steerer. While you're getting the carbon fork, clean out your list so you can just run rear panniers. That'll save weight, though I understand that your wants are not about weight saving, but more about comfort. Go for it. But less load weight is also comfort.

All these components are used by randonneurs, who ride very long distances and for whom comfort is paramount, though light weight is always good, too. Very good reviews for all these things.

The carbon stem, no. No advantage. OTOH, be sure you're using a forged alu stem and not welded. Those do fail spectacularly, and a lot more often than a carbon stem. No advantage to ceramic bearings, assuming that you pay some attention to bike maintenance. They don't rust but otherwise have no advantage.

Those of you laughing at the OP haven't ordered an IF custom Ti bike recently. That's also more about comfort than weight.

Jiffyjam

Never laid eyes on one of these bikes but Bicycle Times Mag ( issue 006 ) did a short review on page 56. They state " how many other carbon bikes are out there with real rack and fender mounts ?" I didn't get the impression from the article that it was for touring, only that they had added features not usually found on carbon.

staehpj1

I agree that it is probably not the best bang for the buck weight wise. The carbon bars and seat post are probably a bit more comfortable and lighter, but more fragile. Ceramic bearings? Probably a waste of money.

Bottom line, I probably wouldn't spend my money on any of that, but if you want to I don't see it as a huge issue.

rekmeyata

This ceramic bearing thing struck my interest so I did a deep internet research and finally found out something quite interesting that I didn't know about. Yes ceramic is expensive and for the most part are not needed by the majority of riders.

BUT: I discovered that ceramic bearings cannot be damage due to either water or dirt getting past the seals and onto the bearing surfaces like steel can be. Therefore using ceramic bearings in hubs and bb's could be useful for those who tour or do cross riding.

Though personally I would wait until the prices drop and long term reports filter in. But if your the type who wants to try something new, and sometimes I do as well but the extra cost of these bearings is worth it to me to wait first...at least till the prices start to drop.

Seb71

I do not think that this is a realistic expectation. If it would be, why would manufacturers bother with seals and grease on ceramic ball bearings?

rekmeyata

You mean you never had a seal fail? wow you must have wonder hubs. I've seen new hubs with new seals let water in after a dunkin...maybe that's unreasonable while road riding but not impossible especially touring in all sorts of weather, and certainly not impossible while doing cross or mtb riding. The reason for the seals is to keep the grease as clean as possible and for reducing friction. With ceramic you don't need grease, just a seal. See:https://www.specializedcyclings.com/ceramic-bearings/

By the way, when looking for the site above I was narrowed focused, then today found this: ceramic bearings may not be suitable though for high load stresses, see: ttp://www.spsspindle.com/quantum/ceramic_steel.php

Seb71

You misunderstood my post.

I mean if the seal fail or if water or dirt gets inside the ball bearing, the ball bearing would be damaged, no matter if it has steel or ceramic balls.

Read again from your link: