[Carbon Fiber] Would this bike scare you?
#51
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Riding comfort of a bicycle is affected more by other things like tires and proper fit than it is frame material. Also, not all frames of the same material have the same ride feel. How the material is manipulated (thickness, shape, etc.) effects compliance/stiffness.
Repair of a damaged/broken steel frame isn't generally going to be something your LBS can handle. It's going to need to go to someone who specializes in that kind of work, and knows what they are doing. This is exactly the same for CF frames.
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A few years ago, our club hosted and organized a 40 km individual time trial. The age category that had the most riders doing the 40 km in under 1 hour was the 50-59 age group
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Indeed. I've seen older aluminum frames, but anything made, say, within the last 15-20 years is CF. Not to mention I need a small frame, so that inherently narrows my available options, short of going in and dropping five grand or better (which I don't have) on a brand new bike. I've never been one that wanted or needed the latest and greatest thing. I would be quite happy with a 20 year old bike still running cables and mechanical shifters just so long as it was solid and the fit was right.
As was suggested earlier, the most bang for your buck in making any bicycle go faster is in your wheels and tires.
The Ironman series was a big seller for Centurion, and there are a boatload of the lying around, selling cheaply enough on Craigslist, that you can afford to customize one with modern wheels and gearing. Some of them have already had these modifications made, as you can see from looking at the thread. It runs for over 400 pages. One of the advantages is that they made and sold so many of them, they are readily available in smaller sizes. Another is that it is has very little in the way of proprietary technology, so they're easily modified. It will never be as light as a CF frame, but they can be built up to be a machine that goes pretty fast, with the right wheels and gearing. And the ones I've reworked and ridden are nice, neutral handling bicycles. Not stiff at all, so less abusive to your body on longer distances. But slower than a stiff frame. If you are just doing this for personal satisfaction, and don't plan on finishing in the top tier for your age group, you might want to check one out. It's definitely a "triathlon bike". Might be the original triathlon bike.
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This is very misleading. The rolling weight argument is way overblown. Sure, less rolling weight will make you accelerate faster and therefore make you feel faster. However, once up to speed, weight is weight.
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...not sure what you're saying here by "rolling weight", but reducing rotating weight in the wheels and tires has a long history in both bicycling and motor sports. The physics and math behind it are sound, and it's not misleading to state it as a basic principle. If, OTOH, you're talking about the total weight of the bicycle frame package, I tend to agree that a modest increase in frame weight is probably not going to make people that much slower over long distances, unless the distances are uphill. Again, the physics and math on this are pretty straightforward.
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For a tri bike, I would agree that rolling weight of wheels is probably not a big factor. However, you're excluding the more important part - aerodynamics.
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...not sure what you're saying here by "rolling weight", but reducing rotating weight in the wheels and tires has a long history in both bicycling and motor sports. The physics and math behind it are sound, and it's not misleading to state it as a basic principle. If, OTOH, you're talking about the total weight of the bicycle frame package, I tend to agree that a modest increase in frame weight is probably not going to make people that much slower over long distances, unless the distances are uphill. Again, the physics and math on this are pretty straightforward.
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...again, if we are talking about the rolling weight of the package, there is a little, but probably not substantial difference created by 6 or 8 pounds. But if you're talking rotating weight of the wheels and tires, there's a significant energy input not only to get them up to speed, but in keeping them rotating at that speed. This, of course, is in addition to aerodynamics of the wheel and rider positioning. There's been some back and forth transposition of "Time Trial" bike versus "Tri" bike in this thread. Are they now used synonymously ? Because I saw zero time trial frames at that Ironman tent, and I cannot picture riding a time trial frame for 112 miles and living through the experience.
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EDIT: Fixed.
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Last edited by Eric F; 11-29-22 at 01:53 PM.
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It takes very little extra power to keep a heavier set of wheels rotating at a given speed than a lighter set of wheels. And, the extra amount of energy required to get a heavier set of wheels up to a given speed isn't very much.
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Fortunately, upgrading the wheels on an older bike to make it go faster is still OK advice, because the wheel upgrade will include both aspects. It's not a choice between one or the other.
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...my bad. I somehow misinterpreted "rolling weight" as a reference to weight. I'll try to do better in the future.
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...again, if we are talking about the rolling weight of the package, there is a little, but probably not substantial difference created by 6 or 8 pounds. But if you're talking rotating weight of the wheels and tires, there's a significant energy input not only to get them up to speed, but in keeping them rotating at that speed. This, of course, is in addition to aerodynamics of the wheel and rider positioning. There's been some back and forth transposition of "Time Trial" bike versus "Tri" bike in this thread. Are they now used synonymously ? Because I saw zero time trial frames at that Ironman tent, and I cannot picture riding a time trial frame for 112 miles and living through the experience.
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Younger people are so spoiled by modern rim technologies, that you have lost sight of the significant advances made in this area, and why they were accomplished.
And I don't even think you are that young.
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...this is what happens whenever I discuss stuff like this here with people who never rode a set of steel bicycle rims.
Younger people are so spoiled by modern rim technologies, that you have lost sight of the significant advances made in this area, and why they were accomplished.
And I don't even think you are that young.
Younger people are so spoiled by modern rim technologies, that you have lost sight of the significant advances made in this area, and why they were accomplished.
And I don't even think you are that young.
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It's totally your fault! You have clearly made up your mind that you want a carbon tri bike. If you won't leave the door open to other options, we have to find something else to talk about.
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...while the forces we are discussing certainly are less than aerodynamics (probably by a factor of ten), that does not mean this statement you have just made is correct. Here is a long blog post about the subject. I'm not prepared or willing to argue it with you, because you give the impression that you are another true believer. I don't argue on Bike Forms with true believers, but I occasionally throw them a link. This is the same stuff that people argue endlessly, in road, about how wider tires are actually faster (even if they are heavier and run at lower pressures), and I realize that discussion of such topics simply wastes both your time and mine, You have misinterpreted some of the results coming out of the improvements with modern wheel aerodynamics as invalidating the established rotational weight dynamics, simply because they are a greater order of magnituce.
Fortunately, upgrading the wheels on an older bike to make it go faster is still OK advice, because the wheel upgrade will include both aspects. It's not a choice between one or the other.
Fortunately, upgrading the wheels on an older bike to make it go faster is still OK advice, because the wheel upgrade will include both aspects. It's not a choice between one or the other.
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#72
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This is a hot take for some but I never buy used carbon bikes. Bikes don't have odometers and carbon is insanely good in hiding damage. There is a good chance any used carbon bike you buy is "fine" but fine and my collarbone and front teeth are a little more skeptic. I specially draw the line in buying used carbon bikes when I am spending thousands of dollars to begin with. If you are just starting out or on a super strict budget and you get an amazing deal sure, maybe.. but even then I'd trust a Chinese carbon frame over some random persons carbon bike
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Like I don't understand the physics or the numbers. I try not to personalize it, but it's very hurtful. Bicycling does not happen under laboratory conditions, there are uphills, and wind, and **** like that, which mean that on any given 112 mile ride, you will be compelled to bring those wheels up to speed more than a few times. Were your statement true in the case of bicycle wheels, someone at R+D would be working on the steel, deep dish, aero rim even as I type this. They would be very fast downhill.
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