Bandera

Achieving riding a bicycle to and fro doesn't take much in the way of "self discipline" or "clear vision" at all, just go ride the bike instead of using other transport as one pleases. Nothing political or religious about that is there?

-Bandera

indyfabz

According to 2015 census date, nearly 55% of households were car free, although I understand that percentage has dropped recently. That's far more than a "few," and that's only NYC.


How Car-Free is New York City? - Mobilizing the Region


Don't feed the trolls.

Mobile 155

Is that a good thing? Manhattan being an exception?

• In New York City, car-free households earn 52 percent less than households with vehicles. The difference is most pronounced on Staten Island, where car-free households earn 73 percent less than households with cars.
• In the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan and Queens, the majority of workers commute via transit. Staten Island is the only borough where a majority of commuters (56.3 percent) drive to work.
• Across the board, median incomes of zero-car households are lower than overall median incomes, while median incomes of households with vehicles are higher than overall median incomes in all five boroughs and across the city.

Is there a connection between income and car ownership?

indyfabz

I have to believe there is some. How much I don't know. But it's not exclusive to NYC. Plenty of places in the country where people cannot afford to own cars.


There are also "comfortable" people who are car free or car light. I turn 53 next week. I make six figures and have for some time. I didn't buy a car for myself until July of 2016. Prior to that, I bought a car for my mom in 1995. (From 1983 to 1995 there was no car in my family.) We shared it until maybe 2010, when she transferred it to me after it became clear she should no longer be driving. In 2013, some D.B. kid totaled it while it was parked. Only had 108K miles on it. My current car, which I took home from the dealership the first week of July, 2016, has a hair over 4,410 miles on it. More that 500 of those miles were put on during two long camping trips a good ways from home. A few hundred more of those miles have been logged for work.

cooker

New York is probably not generalizable to the rest of the world but it is interesting to speculate about what's going on there. It's a superexpensive place to live, so one way people of ordinary incomes might be able to save money and afford to live there, would be by not owning a car. And of course, that works because it is also a place that is well suited to not owning a car - compact for walking and biking and well served by transit. So New Yorkers may be more likely to see cars as a luxury item and only buy them if they're extra rich, rather than as basic necessities that everybody except the poorest of the poor is going to strive to own. So, unlike people in Phoenix who can't afford a car and are hugely inconvenienced, and are probably very low income and maybe don't own property either, middle class families in New York may opt not to own a car because it isn't worth it to them and isn't seen as necessary, even though they are otherwise doing okay.

badger1

Do you sense any noticeable trend in Toronto (downtown-ish) yet toward foregoing car ownership, cooker? Am I right in thinking there's a fair few new condo buildings etc. going up w/o parking, or is that mistaken?

Mobile 155

Does not the study or chart published give credence, to a degree that circumstance rather than conviction has a more tangible relationship to car free? I mean if we are talking 50% or more difference in income? I have never had a car equal 50 percent of my income. With those numbers the car owners have more disposable income at the end of the day. I found the article a bit depressing or some word a bit less that that.

cooker

I'm sure it is circumstances - New York is expensive enough to live in without having to pay for a car, but fortunately a lot of people there have discovered they don't actually need a car, so they didn't have to take on that extra expense. I don't think most of them are doing it primarily because they are convinced being car-free is a noble sacrifice, although some might understand that they are helping make their city one of the greenest places in the USA. Some may also be pleased that they don't have to drive in gridlock, and that they get to walk or cycle to work, so they may see not owning a car as having some benefits beyond financial. In fact, as Felix Unger (or was it Oscar Madison?) discovered, owning a car in New York can actually be a big hassle.

CliffordK

Each situation is different, and each person's interpretation of "Car-Free" or "Car-Light" is different.

I don't have good access to public transportation, but I've put many miles on my bicycle since going "car-free" a couple of years ago (while keeping the car parked in the driveway).

Car-Free is possible both in the city and country, and can lead to different solutions.

Around here we get more rain than snow, so in general one must prepare for sogginess, and not for ice.

tandempower

Owning a car anywhere is a big hassle.

cooker

There are hugely more bike commuters now than when I started around 1992, and bikes at the rack at work year round. I don't have stats on how many people own fewer cars, but anecdotally among my own adult children in Toronto, they own fewer cars!

I-Like-To-Bike

Growing up, working for a living, being reliable, raising a family, even putting on big boy pants can be a big hassle for someone who prefers to avoid any responsibility.

badger1

Interesting, and encouraging (I think)!

I've mentioned before on here that my uncle and his wife have lived in Toronto (Ellis Ave. area) their entire lives (sabbatical leaves and c. excepted), and have never driven, let alone owned, a car. They are now in their very late 80s. They walked and/or used taxis/public transit as necessary, and my uncle was a life-long cyclist commuting to U of T every day when he was on faculty, through the 50s > 80s. He was doing shopping runs (up to Morningside) until 6 years or so ago when his health finally broke down so as to force him to retire the bike.

tandempower

Interesting post from someone who transports multiple cases of beer in a kid-trailer.

I-Like-To-Bike

Can't think of anything to add to the product of your version of "Critical Thinking™" so you get the last word in incoherent "constructive discussion".

Mobile 155

I think the census shows Victoria as your biggest cycling commuter area. Toronto has more people working from home according to this report. At least if you scroll down to the city by city chart.
https://www.newgeography.com/content/005821-commuting-canada-2016-census-report

badger1

As far as commuting (regularly) by bike goes, that would make perfect sense. I'm originally from the Victoria area: the area is geographically very compact, has an intensively-developed cycling infrastructure, and (probably most important) mostly mild weather year round.

Just guessing, but likely one of the easiest cities in North America in which to get around by bicycle on a year-round basis.

tandempower

Whoa, calm down. I was just teasing you about your beer trailer relative to your post about responsibility. Sorry you find it all so 'incoherent.'

I-Like-To-Bike

Your lame attempt at "teasing" is similar in coherence to every over-the-top OT analysis, scheme and proposal that is the result of your unique critical thinking process and leads to equally coherent constructive discussion.

tandempower

Maelochs

It is so rare that I get to agree with someone .... that I won't do it now. I'll save it up for some other time ....

But ... I could, if I so chose, in this instance.