Why is ultralight touring so unpopular?
11-06-15, 06:32 AM
#26
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BTW, as I start to get my list down to around ~10 pounds I usually decide that striving to cut those last ounces isn't worth the effort. I have made backpacking lists for gear weights under 10 pounds that would be adequate and reasonable comfortable, but at that point typically wind up deciding to splurge on a fly rod or a musical instrument, or some other item.
11-06-15, 06:36 AM
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We would never tour any other way than CC, to each its own. Given the number of touring cyclists to the number of bicycles in the world, one could ask why touring is unpopular, or given the number of cars why is cycling so unpopular? Its all relative.
11-06-15, 06:46 AM
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I'm an ultralight bike tourist and hiker and I've actually experienced scorn from others about my methods. Those really stick out in my mind. But by far most are happy and secure with what they carry and don't really care. A few are interested and question how it's done.
To answer the OP, I think most people just pack for the trip they want to experience. Many want to go on a camping trip (and enjoy outdoor cooking and living), or a bird-watching trip, or a photography/blogging trip. A few just want to go on a bicycling trip, and so they pack nothing that does not support the bicycling.
It seems to be a universal truth that no matter how much you carry, everyone who carries more than you is an overweight dinosaur, and everyone who carries less than you is a risk-taking fool.
To answer the OP, I think most people just pack for the trip they want to experience. Many want to go on a camping trip (and enjoy outdoor cooking and living), or a bird-watching trip, or a photography/blogging trip. A few just want to go on a bicycling trip, and so they pack nothing that does not support the bicycling.
It seems to be a universal truth that no matter how much you carry, everyone who carries more than you is an overweight dinosaur, and everyone who carries less than you is a risk-taking fool.
11-06-15, 06:54 AM
#29
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who brings even one pillow? Rolled up jacket is just as good.
11-06-15, 07:38 AM
#30
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- Or the tarpmasters who's ringleader recently got lime disease for lack of a few ounces of netting, and now sleeps under a "tarp" that looks a lot like a tent.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
Tarps combined with hammocs are probably the best sleeping system for the solo tourist. If I go out with the SO I use a tent but alone and I use a hammock (except if I go north where there's no trees...) I've had some of my best sleep in a hammock in sub freezing no less. It's just a matter of setting up really. And one needs to have a underblanket. Using a sleeping pad is a method doomed to fail. So you need 4 components (5 if going out in bug season)
1) hammock
2) tarp
3) underblanket
4) sleeping bag
5) Bug net
6) optional pillow, although in a hammock it's not nearly as important as with pad on the ground.
Didn't say it was going to be ultralight, but then again that whole system is lighter than a good (quality and size) tent.
And about alcohol stoves.
Trangia is probably the best cooking system ever made and it uses alcohol. Sure you can use it with gas or multi fuel, but the alcohol really is good enough and unlike some say, works in as cold a weather as you need it to work.
Couple that with a woodgas stove and you have a really heavy / bulky system that won't let you down, anywhere, ever. At least, I'm having trouble imagining touring environments that have neither plants or alcohol.
Still trying to figure out how I'm going to solve my current dilemma though... I want to use the woodgas stove with my stainless pot primarily, but also want to have the trangia alcohol burningn capability as a backup. But taking both systems would be way too heavy and bulky. And I'd still be without a windscreen for the woodgas stove. So maybe a pot from the trangia, the steel pot, the woodgas stove, trangia burner, windscreen (those foldable things) and a tripod to hold the steel pot...
11-06-15, 07:57 AM
#31
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A thing I find annoying about the lightweight crowd, is there is so much bad advice:
- Born on third base, think they hit a triple. You get some nonsense road bike recommendation from someone who is riding tires thinner than they ride in today's peloton, and not enough spokes for a game of pick up sticks. No not a lightweight genius, just a little person, or maybe someone about to have a wheel collapse.
- All the Bikepacking nonsense. Yes if you fill your bike with an unlimited number of bags, you won't pack too much stuff because it got crowded out by the bags, or there is no point since you will never find it.
- Or the tarpmasters who's ringleader recently got lime disease for lack of a few ounces of netting, and now sleeps under a "tarp" that looks a lot like a tent.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
It's un-American. Who wants to run into an emaciated squirrel chattering on about the last few ounces he saved, who disappears from sight every time he turns sideways. I want to camp next to cheerleaders in ultralight outfits, with big hair, and a 2 stroke Margarita mixer.
- Born on third base, think they hit a triple. You get some nonsense road bike recommendation from someone who is riding tires thinner than they ride in today's peloton, and not enough spokes for a game of pick up sticks. No not a lightweight genius, just a little person, or maybe someone about to have a wheel collapse.
- All the Bikepacking nonsense. Yes if you fill your bike with an unlimited number of bags, you won't pack too much stuff because it got crowded out by the bags, or there is no point since you will never find it.
- Or the tarpmasters who's ringleader recently got lime disease for lack of a few ounces of netting, and now sleeps under a "tarp" that looks a lot like a tent.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
It's un-American. Who wants to run into an emaciated squirrel chattering on about the last few ounces he saved, who disappears from sight every time he turns sideways. I want to camp next to cheerleaders in ultralight outfits, with big hair, and a 2 stroke Margarita mixer.
But your sexist ending sentence sums up some parts of America quite accurately. But I think those thoughts fit better with a cheep beer, big game and pickup truck commercial than a bike touring forum. You are free to carry your margarita maker any way you want. I can carry my stuff in one hundred bags of I want. Or panniers. Or a trailer. It's all good. That's what's great about freedom and first world problems.
I won't be camping nearby. I'll be cowering in the rain under a bridge with my ultralight tent looking through my bikepacking bags for my cut down toothbrush and wishing I had brought my RV instead.
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So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
Last edited by bmike; 11-06-15 at 08:00 AM.
11-06-15, 08:08 AM
#32
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I got into ultralight touring because it was enabling. I could go further, see more, do more. I wasn't very strong three years ago when I went on my first UL tour, and the decreased weight helped me keep up with the team pace of 80+ miles per day. Now, I can easily push 100 on repeat and that means I can take my long weekend, and visit Canada instead of the local forest.
Ultralight isn't about restriction, it's about freedom. The bikepackers are chasing a different rabbit than you are; don't confuse that for chasing your rabbit the wrong way.
Ultralight isn't about restriction, it's about freedom. The bikepackers are chasing a different rabbit than you are; don't confuse that for chasing your rabbit the wrong way.
11-06-15, 08:19 AM
#33
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11-06-15, 08:21 AM
#34
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11-06-15, 08:24 AM
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I never specified a gender.
Objectifying random strangers is lame regardless.
Objectifying random strangers is lame regardless.
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So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
11-06-15, 08:30 AM
#36
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A thing I find annoying about the lightweight crowd, is there is so much bad advice:
- Born on third base, think they hit a triple. You get some nonsense road bike recommendation from someone who is riding tires thinner than they ride in today's peloton, and not enough spokes for a game of pick up sticks. No not a lightweight genius, just a little person, or maybe someone about to have a wheel collapse.
- All the Bikepacking nonsense. Yes if you fill your bike with an unlimited number of bags, you won't pack too much stuff because it got crowded out by the bags, or there is no point since you will never find it.
- Or the tarpmasters who's ringleader recently got lime disease for lack of a few ounces of netting, and now sleeps under a "tarp" that looks a lot like a tent.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
It's un-American. Who wants to run into an emaciated squirrel chattering on about the last few ounces he saved, who disappears from sight every time he turns sideways. I want to camp next to cheerleaders in ultralight outfits, with big hair, and a 2 stroke Margarita mixer.
- Born on third base, think they hit a triple. You get some nonsense road bike recommendation from someone who is riding tires thinner than they ride in today's peloton, and not enough spokes for a game of pick up sticks. No not a lightweight genius, just a little person, or maybe someone about to have a wheel collapse.
- All the Bikepacking nonsense. Yes if you fill your bike with an unlimited number of bags, you won't pack too much stuff because it got crowded out by the bags, or there is no point since you will never find it.
- Or the tarpmasters who's ringleader recently got lime disease for lack of a few ounces of netting, and now sleeps under a "tarp" that looks a lot like a tent.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
It's un-American. Who wants to run into an emaciated squirrel chattering on about the last few ounces he saved, who disappears from sight every time he turns sideways. I want to camp next to cheerleaders in ultralight outfits, with big hair, and a 2 stroke Margarita mixer.
11-06-15, 08:32 AM
#37
Banned
Why does it have to Be Popular for you to decide to do it that way or Not?
<Its going to be a Long winter so this will be argued over till Spring and people can Ride again>
This is not the center of the Universe not Everyone reads this forum .
FWIW transamerica race , last June, the bikepacking kit was the most common, amongst the 40 competitors.
<Its going to be a Long winter so this will be argued over till Spring and people can Ride again>
This is not the center of the Universe not Everyone reads this forum .
FWIW transamerica race , last June, the bikepacking kit was the most common, amongst the 40 competitors.
Last edited by fietsbob; 11-13-15 at 12:41 PM.
11-06-15, 09:16 AM
#38
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I see this sentiment expressed a lot in touring and backpacking forums but I've never seen one of these types tbh.
11-06-15, 09:20 AM
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To each their own.
11-06-15, 09:32 AM
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Touring: lots of ways to do it. Massive RV style, truck camping style, expedition camping style, car camping, motorcycle camping style... vintage!
Aside from being scared when an elderly couple pass me in a vehicle larger than my house, its all good though.
Same goes for bike touring...
Aside from being scared when an elderly couple pass me in a vehicle larger than my house, its all good though.
Same goes for bike touring...
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So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
Last edited by bmike; 11-06-15 at 09:39 AM.
11-06-15, 10:06 AM
#41
One is that, real ultralite tourists can't be separated from people with a daypack strapped to their bikes. How do you know that guy isn't just on his way home? Sure he could be some place that is extremely remote/touristy, but then how does one know he isn't just out for a day or two.
source (nun): https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/84...vangelism.html
11-06-15, 10:10 AM
#42
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The easiest way by far to shed weight is to simply not bring things. Most people can probably save more weight by geekily going through all of their gear on a spreadsheet and thinking "do I really need this" than by spending hundreds of dollars on a new, lighter thing.
11-06-15, 10:14 AM
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11-06-15, 10:16 AM
#44
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Absolutely. I think that one of the most irrational things some folks do is to buy expensive items to shed a few grams when they are carrying quite a few pounds of extra items.
11-06-15, 10:37 AM
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I think this goes along with what I said about traditional methods being good enough until you can't do what you want to do with what you have. Most people aren't in a race or keeping up with a team when they tour. Probably, they are trying to do exactly the opposite and detach from the rat race.
To each their own.
To each their own.
A few college kids from my local shop did trans-america over the summer. Not one person had more than two panniers. No handlebar bags, LOTS of framebags- just about everyone had a framebag or two. Maybe, with the advent of new materials, the "ultralight" setup is becoming less radical.
Online communities are usually defined by ~10-15 "frequent posters" (oh god, am I one of them?!). The "norm" on this forum may or may not be the nationwide norm. Hard to say with ultralight touring. Like the backpacking community, many of the bikepackers prefer not to spend time at their computers.
11-06-15, 10:58 AM
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I just saw a guy yesterday on a Trek Madone CF racing bike with a HUGE pack pack on, I don't know how far that guy was going but better him than me! That backpack was so full it had to be at least 50 pounds of gear not including the rolled up tent and sleeping bag attached.
11-06-15, 10:58 AM
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Online communities are usually defined by ~10-15 "frequent posters" (oh god, am I one of them?!). The "norm" on this forum may or may not be the nationwide norm. Hard to say with ultralight touring. Like the backpacking community, many of the bikepackers prefer not to spend time at their computers.
I'm going to start a thread... ultralight posting!
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So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
So long. Been nice knowing you BF.... to all the friends I've made here and in real life... its been great. But this place needs an enema.
11-06-15, 11:06 AM
#48
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A thing I find annoying about the lightweight crowd, is there is so much bad advice:
- Born on third base, think they hit a triple. You get some nonsense road bike recommendation from someone who is riding tires thinner than they ride in today's peloton, and not enough spokes for a game of pick up sticks. No not a lightweight genius, just a little person, or maybe someone about to have a wheel collapse.
- All the Bikepacking nonsense. Yes if you fill your bike with an unlimited number of bags, you won't pack too much stuff because it got crowded out by the bags, or there is no point since you will never find it.
- Or the tarpmasters who's ringleader recently got lime disease for lack of a few ounces of netting, and now sleeps under a "tarp" that looks a lot like a tent.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
It's un-American. Who wants to run into an emaciated squirrel chattering on about the last few ounces he saved, who disappears from sight every time he turns sideways. I want to camp next to cheerleaders in ultralight outfits, with big hair, and a 2 stroke Margarita mixer.
- Born on third base, think they hit a triple. You get some nonsense road bike recommendation from someone who is riding tires thinner than they ride in today's peloton, and not enough spokes for a game of pick up sticks. No not a lightweight genius, just a little person, or maybe someone about to have a wheel collapse.
- All the Bikepacking nonsense. Yes if you fill your bike with an unlimited number of bags, you won't pack too much stuff because it got crowded out by the bags, or there is no point since you will never find it.
- Or the tarpmasters who's ringleader recently got lime disease for lack of a few ounces of netting, and now sleeps under a "tarp" that looks a lot like a tent.
- Or the hammock crowd who get a dozen hammocks, then confess they never actually slept through a night in one.
- Or the guys with the alcohol stoves that heat up cups of boiling water all the time, as though it were a satisfying tub of chicken.
It's un-American. Who wants to run into an emaciated squirrel chattering on about the last few ounces he saved, who disappears from sight every time he turns sideways. I want to camp next to cheerleaders in ultralight outfits, with big hair, and a 2 stroke Margarita mixer.
I don't bother with cooking supplies, I have no interest in it. I'd rather just snack on clif bars etc. like you, and grab a meal from a local restaurant once a day or so. I'd rather try new foods and ****, stuff I can't get made the same way at home, than boil some ramen noodles or something. There were often 10-15 mile stretches where I didn't have any food on me at all, because I knew a town would be coming up soon enough. Also I prefer to eat while I ride during the day. I hate stopping to eat when I could be exploring or making progress.
Traveling through the US at a rate of ~100 miles per day, finding a place to restock is simply not an issue. When I go international I'll have to adjust my setup a bit I'm sure.
My setup for my last tour (2 weeks, 1400 miles, deep south USA sept-oct) was about 20lbs bike, 14.5lbs gear, 220lbs human. At the end it was about 20lb bike, 10lb gear, 204lb human. Mailed a bunch of stuff home I realized I didn't need.
That's the best feeling ever. Thinking you have your **** all sorted out, then you realize you have too much and can actually go lighter!
Traveling through the US at a rate of ~100 miles per day, finding a place to restock is simply not an issue. When I go international I'll have to adjust my setup a bit I'm sure.
My setup for my last tour (2 weeks, 1400 miles, deep south USA sept-oct) was about 20lbs bike, 14.5lbs gear, 220lbs human. At the end it was about 20lb bike, 10lb gear, 204lb human. Mailed a bunch of stuff home I realized I didn't need.
That's the best feeling ever. Thinking you have your **** all sorted out, then you realize you have too much and can actually go lighter!
Your system works for you but don't assume that the rest of us have to follow your "system". I'm sure you could save some weight by removing the saddle and seatpost as well as by riding naked but how many sacrifices are you willing to make?
I'm not sure what you carry in your "14.5 lbs of gear" but I know what I carry and how I've used every bit of what I carry and could have used more. For example, I started a tour in Toledo this spring (last week of April to be precise) with some "ultralight" gear choices that made for some very uncomfortable nights for the next month. I usually carry a 0°F down bag but opted to try a much lighter bag based on previous tours where the 0°F bag was just too warm. I obtained a nice 1.5 lb 45°F bag that was totally inadequate for the first night on the banks of Lake Erie when the temperature hit 22°F. Even wearing my rain jacket, arm warmers, leg warmers, zip off pants, light jacket and extra socks, it was an incredibly uncomfortable night. Any less clothing and I'm sure it would have been unhealthy.
I had several more nights like that and even went so far as to purchase bulky (and heavy) sweat pants and sweat shirt to sleep in. I was glad for the extra room and for the extra warmth. Even as late as the last week of May, I had a night that hovered around 25°F in western Maryland. Without the extra space and extra clothes, I'm sure my trip would have been cut short long before that point.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
11-06-15, 11:11 AM
#49
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Oh, that motorcycle photo with the canoe-it must be a joke because holy doodles, having ridden motorcycles in cross winds a lot, that looks like an accident waiting to happen, and reeeeeal soon. Funny shot though.
11-06-15, 11:24 AM
#50
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I think ultralight touring isn't as popular simply because most people like to carry more than just one or two sets of clothes, and prefer not to sleep in a bivy, under a tarp or out in the open...or GOD FORBID without a pillow
Those are my main reasons.
Those are my main reasons.