Forget the tubing: The master builders, hidden gems, and underappreciated marquees
09-26-12, 07:53 PM
#26
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I'm going to throw one word into this discussion. Dutch. Not a marque, rather the nationality. In all my years of riding, there's been something about Dutch bikes, no matter what the price range, that is more comfortable, more responsive than anything else out there. I've never ridden a Dutch bike that I haven't liked. Either it's something in the water, or, the Dutch tend to take bicycle building more seriously than anyone else.
Case in point (most of you have seen it before, this is for those who haven't):
It's a '68 or '69 Magneet Sprint, given to me by Poguemahone back in 2006. As it was originally, we're talking Campy Valentino, CLB Racer centerpulls, steel cottered crank, steel rims on steel three-piece hubs with wingnuts, alloy stem, steel bars. What three or four years later would be called a Bike Boom 10-speed and sell for $100.00. Yet the geometry was right, the fit was good, and I was looking for a long haul tourer so I started building. And, as you can see, the components are way too good for a bike of that price range. Except that everything works very well. Well enough that I just took it past the 5000 mile point last week.
Gaspipe. Pure, simple gaspipe. A frame, found at the dump that most people wouldn't give a second look . . . . . . except that it was Dutch, and I wanted to see if my old memories of Dutch bikes were correct. It's still holding the record.
And it a very good periodic reminder that fancy tubing stickers are often overrated. If you're not worried about the bike's weight, who cares?
Case in point (most of you have seen it before, this is for those who haven't):
It's a '68 or '69 Magneet Sprint, given to me by Poguemahone back in 2006. As it was originally, we're talking Campy Valentino, CLB Racer centerpulls, steel cottered crank, steel rims on steel three-piece hubs with wingnuts, alloy stem, steel bars. What three or four years later would be called a Bike Boom 10-speed and sell for $100.00. Yet the geometry was right, the fit was good, and I was looking for a long haul tourer so I started building. And, as you can see, the components are way too good for a bike of that price range. Except that everything works very well. Well enough that I just took it past the 5000 mile point last week.
Gaspipe. Pure, simple gaspipe. A frame, found at the dump that most people wouldn't give a second look . . . . . . except that it was Dutch, and I wanted to see if my old memories of Dutch bikes were correct. It's still holding the record.
And it a very good periodic reminder that fancy tubing stickers are often overrated. If you're not worried about the bike's weight, who cares?
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“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
Syke
“No one in this world, so far as I know — and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me — has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people. Nor has anyone ever lost public office thereby.”
H.L. Mencken, (1926)
09-26-12, 08:09 PM
#27
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09-26-12, 08:19 PM
#28
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Or the remarkable Biz Markie.
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Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
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09-26-12, 09:37 PM
#29
Newbie
Speaking of Guerciotti, this deal from Planet-X ( https://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/...ord_framesetUK ) has intrigued me for some time. It appears to be an Italian-made frameset (even has the Italian-threaded bottom bracket) but features the 'lesser' Columbus Thron tubeset.
But, with that racing heritage, it could be a gem...
Jim
09-26-12, 10:15 PM
#30
feros ferio
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Capo is a small Viennese manufacturer, founded by O_tto Cap in 1930, and still run by his son, Harald. Mine (double-butted Reynolds 531, with original paint and components; straight-gauge 531, repainted and rekitted) always get attention wherever I go. Only 400 bikes were exported to the US, mostly California, circa 1959-1961.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
Last edited by John E; 09-26-12 at 10:21 PM.
09-26-12, 10:27 PM
#31
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09-26-12, 11:29 PM
#33
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I think there are other advantages too...people don't know what they are and that can make for fun conversations. It means they tend to attract less attention, which I consider a plus. I think they're easier to get back if stolen...they stick out. As you said, I think a lot of the time they are much better made bikes and the price is a huge boon as well. I'd much rather have an odder marquee...something like a Picchio...than a 10speed Drives import.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Picchio-Spec...p2047675.l2557
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'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
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-Randy
'72 Cilo Pacer • '72 Peugeot PX10 • '73 Speedwell Ti • '74 Nishiki Competition • '74 Peugeot UE-8 • '86 Look Equipe 753 • '86 Look KG86 • '89 Parkpre Team Road • '90 Parkpre Team MTB • '90 Merlin Ti
Avatar photo courtesy of jeffveloart.com, contact: contact: jeffnil8 (at) gmail.com.
09-27-12, 05:53 AM
#35
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Case in point, someone got a heck of a deal on this Picchio Special (Aaron, our size even! I wish I'd seen this auction before it closed):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Picchio-Spec...p2047675.l2557
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Picchio-Spec...p2047675.l2557
09-28-12, 06:32 AM
#37
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I've given away many bikes, and this is the one I gave away that I am sure ended up in absolutely the right hands. Makes me happy every time I see it. As a bonus, it has easily the best paint I have ever seen on a vintage ride (maybe even a new one). This bike found absolutely the right rider.
Thanks for the compliments on the Bonanno, guys. It really is a gorgeous bike, and as it rides about as good as it looks, I would not trade it for any "name" bike I can think of. KAS is right; it is a conversation starter. Dig around a bit, and you can find some really great and virtually unknown stuff. It's out there, and I bet there are builders who are basically undiscovered by the C&V community who were/are incredible.
Thanks for the compliments on the Bonanno, guys. It really is a gorgeous bike, and as it rides about as good as it looks, I would not trade it for any "name" bike I can think of. KAS is right; it is a conversation starter. Dig around a bit, and you can find some really great and virtually unknown stuff. It's out there, and I bet there are builders who are basically undiscovered by the C&V community who were/are incredible.
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09-28-12, 08:17 AM
#38
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I found David Moulton's (who most agree knew how to build a frame) three articles on frame evolution to be very enlightening. Suddenly I understood why my Peugeot with the handlebars above the wheel axle handles much better than my oversize Marini with the long top tube and short stem.
My contribution to the thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-QFMdnRl08
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09-28-12, 08:29 AM
#39
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09-29-12, 07:51 AM
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Ooh, my, that is pretty. I feel your pain!
09-29-12, 11:57 PM
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Centurion LeMans, pre-'83. Nothing terribly special on the spec sheet, but I fell besottedly in love with mine. Wonderful, springy lively responsive ride with steering that was a direct link to my brainstem and stability that let me ride hands-off over cobbles at a slow walking pace. I would love to find another.
09-30-12, 11:01 AM
#47
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09-30-12, 02:25 PM
#48
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Colnagos sub-contractors made a slew of models that were never sold in the US. Sport,Junior,Export, Victory on and on. I think the C "90's" series C92 thru C97are some of the finest Colnagos ever made. I have a C 03 that puts my7 !977 Super and !978 Superissimo to shame. Everyone says entry level everyone doesn't know what they are talking about. Even the early Sports early "70's" are great riding bikes. Ed
09-30-12, 03:36 PM
#49
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This is right up my alley, wanting something 'different' even, or especially if it's unknown and unappreciated. Some kind of perverse psychology. If I collected 50s American cars I would probably want a '56 Chevy rather than a '57. That'll show 'em. 
I have been quietly looking for a Dutch Zieleman, just because I saw them in the NL and thought they were cool, and among a very small group they are very well thought of. I hope that if I ever get such a frame and build it up, I'll like it!
I have been quietly looking for a Dutch Zieleman, just because I saw them in the NL and thought they were cool, and among a very small group they are very well thought of. I hope that if I ever get such a frame and build it up, I'll like it!
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Last edited by Chicago Al; 09-30-12 at 09:51 PM.
09-30-12, 06:25 PM
#50
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I think Patelli's count as "under appreciated". The few I've seen from the 60's and 70's have all shown a very "good hand".
More here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/5461623...th/6201406933/
More here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/5461623...th/6201406933/