My 650A (650B) Rando-Commuter Build and Updates Thread.
#101
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Looking good! I'm sure most of the performance difference comes from the new wheels and tires, but I like how you got creative with the stem and seatpost. About that fender rattle, maybe try using an L-bracket with a leather washer at the rear brake bridge instead of the bracket?
#102
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Looking good! I'm sure most of the performance difference comes from the new wheels and tires, but I like how you got creative with the stem and seatpost. About that fender rattle, maybe try using an L-bracket with a leather washer at the rear brake bridge instead of the bracket?
#103
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Very nice! My commuter bike is a Bianchi Volpe, similarly equipped. I think it's about 34 lbs with no water bottles. It has fenders, a rack, dynamo hub, headlight, tail light, and a bell. I tend to think I can't do much to lighten it significantly. Maybe I can. I'm not sure. And I'm not sure if it's worth the expense. But you've given me food for thought.
2.2 lbs per inch is impressive, even skinnier than I am. I'm 5'9" and 157 lbs, which is 2.27 lbs/in.
2.2 lbs per inch is impressive, even skinnier than I am. I'm 5'9" and 157 lbs, which is 2.27 lbs/in.
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#104
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Very nice! My commuter bike is a Bianchi Volpe, similarly equipped. I think it's about 34 lbs with no water bottles. It has fenders, a rack, dynamo hub, headlight, tail light, and a bell. I tend to think I can't do much to lighten it significantly. Maybe I can. I'm not sure. And I'm not sure if it's worth the expense. But you've given me food for thought.
2.2 lbs per inch is impressive, even skinnier than I am. I'm 5'9" and 157 lbs, which is 2.27 lbs/in.
2.2 lbs per inch is impressive, even skinnier than I am. I'm 5'9" and 157 lbs, which is 2.27 lbs/in.
After about 35 miles on the new setup, I'd say that the nicer wheels and tires represent at least half, maybe 2/3 of the improvement, for what that's worth.
#105
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I totally believe it. Recently, people have been saying that weight loss on the bike, especially the rims and wheels, don't make as big a difference as we think. I disagree with them. I definitely feel those differences, even when they're small.
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#106
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I have certainly noticed the difference when swapping tires on other bikes (granted one set had a difference of 500g per tire!!!). I also think most of us would agree that the quality of the tire makes a difference.
I think the Pacenti rims look real sweet on your Bianchi. The black rims with machined sidewalls complement the dark color of your frame nicely. The red and white Pacenti logos seem to match your decals too. Beautiful build!
I think the Pacenti rims look real sweet on your Bianchi. The black rims with machined sidewalls complement the dark color of your frame nicely. The red and white Pacenti logos seem to match your decals too. Beautiful build!
#107
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Thanks, Dave! I was initially bummed that there weren't any all-silver SL23's left in 32h, and thought the black ones would look too modern, but I'm really digging them now.
(Coincidentally, I'm just now noticing that the three labels are arranged so that they are right-side up when the valve stem is at 12 o'clock. If I had taken the picture with the valve stem at 6 o'clock, they'd all be upside-down, and I might not have caught it until it was too late. )
(Coincidentally, I'm just now noticing that the three labels are arranged so that they are right-side up when the valve stem is at 12 o'clock. If I had taken the picture with the valve stem at 6 o'clock, they'd all be upside-down, and I might not have caught it until it was too late. )
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So here is the completed bike on yesterday's shakedown run. It weighs 24.8 lbs as pictured, minus the water bottle. By my math, I saved 2.75 lbs from the basic bike, not counting the handlebar bag or anything that would go in it:
I'm pleased to report that the bike now feels way more lively and fun. The lighter weight is evident not only when carrying the bike up and down the stairs, but when tackling hills and other riding out of the saddle. And the tires feel smoother, the wheels spinning up a lot more easily when the light turns green. (Oh, and I traced the fender rattle to the brake bridge bracket -- I added a little electrical tape inside for padding and tightened down the tabs to almost eliminate the rattle.)
Mounting the handlebar bag (614g) and a dyno-powered headlight (est: 100g w/ mount) will add back some weight, but I'm cool with that. I estimate that the whole bike would come in at about 30-31 lbs when equipped for another PBP, about a 15% weight savings.
P.S. No weight weenie discussion is complete without some smartass (oftentimes me) piping up and saying "lose some weight yourself!" or "don't forget to take a dump before your ride!" so I'll address that now. Coming off of PBP, I weighed about 2.2 lbs/in, and while I would welcome savings beyond that, I'm not going to go out of my way. It felt about right.
I'm pleased to report that the bike now feels way more lively and fun. The lighter weight is evident not only when carrying the bike up and down the stairs, but when tackling hills and other riding out of the saddle. And the tires feel smoother, the wheels spinning up a lot more easily when the light turns green. (Oh, and I traced the fender rattle to the brake bridge bracket -- I added a little electrical tape inside for padding and tightened down the tabs to almost eliminate the rattle.)
Mounting the handlebar bag (614g) and a dyno-powered headlight (est: 100g w/ mount) will add back some weight, but I'm cool with that. I estimate that the whole bike would come in at about 30-31 lbs when equipped for another PBP, about a 15% weight savings.
P.S. No weight weenie discussion is complete without some smartass (oftentimes me) piping up and saying "lose some weight yourself!" or "don't forget to take a dump before your ride!" so I'll address that now. Coming off of PBP, I weighed about 2.2 lbs/in, and while I would welcome savings beyond that, I'm not going to go out of my way. It felt about right.
One thought, with regards to your fender rattle: I have always used the L bracket and a leather washer on the rear bridge, instead of that silly bracket apparatus, with VO fenders and had excellent, rattle-free results. I second that suggestion!
#110
Keener splendor
That just looks heavy, and I think the OP didn't miss out on anything. Plus, it has 700c wheels, and I think @ThermionicScott was going for a plusher tire.
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That just looks heavy, and I think the OP didn't miss out on anything. Plus, it has 700c wheels, and I think @ThermionicScott was going for a plusher tire.
***Oops, meant to quote @NormanF
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@ThermionicScott----what a great looking bike! Great build.
Could you expand a bit on the following: 'using #2 brass washers where necessary to support the spoke heads'
Is there a problem with these rims that needed this additional step? I am thinking of picking some up and would like to know if there are any issues.
Thanks,
Steve.
Could you expand a bit on the following: 'using #2 brass washers where necessary to support the spoke heads'
Is there a problem with these rims that needed this additional step? I am thinking of picking some up and would like to know if there are any issues.
Thanks,
Steve.
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Thanks, folks! That Raleigh does tick a lot of the same boxes, but this thread should be evidence that I like to take the hard way to my goals.
#114
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@ThermionicScott----what a great looking bike! Great build.
Could you expand a bit on the following: 'using #2 brass washers where necessary to support the spoke heads'
Is there a problem with these rims that needed this additional step? I am thinking of picking some up and would like to know if there are any issues.
Thanks,
Steve.
Could you expand a bit on the following: 'using #2 brass washers where necessary to support the spoke heads'
Is there a problem with these rims that needed this additional step? I am thinking of picking some up and would like to know if there are any issues.
Thanks,
Steve.
I had read (pretty sure from old Jobst Brandt postings) that newer hubs tend to have larger spoke drillings, and that thinner spokes ran the risk of having the heads break off due to seating at an angle. So I bought these brass washers on Amazon so I could make sure the spoke heads seated flat against the hub flanges, and so that the spoke elbows weren't hanging out in space. In the end, some of the spokes I received had longer elbows (different production runs?), so it was the rear DS and front inboard spokes that got the washers, the others seeming to find good support without them. (More detail, if you're interested -- I ordered three lengths for this project: 266mm for front, 269mm rear NDS, 267mm rear DS. The 267's I received were the wrong type -- 2.0 straight-gauge -- so I impatiently went ahead and built my rear wheel with a mix of 269's and 266's. Once I got the correct 267's in the mail, I built up the front wheel using the remaining 266's for the inboard spokes and 267's for the outboard spokes, and it worked out great since outboard spokes take a slightly longer path anyway. Now that I think about it, it was the 266's that had the longer elbows.)
If anyone is wondering why I bothered with 1.8/1.6/1.8 spokes when 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes are much easier to find, it was a combination of saving a little weight, JB's exhortations that 1.8's were strong enough for anything, and the "why not?" factor.
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This looks good.
That just looks heavy, and I think the OP didn't miss out on anything. Plus, it has 700c wheels, and I think @ThermionicScott was going for a plusher tire.
That just looks heavy, and I think the OP didn't miss out on anything. Plus, it has 700c wheels, and I think @ThermionicScott was going for a plusher tire.
It appears to be a 650A wheelset. Its common to see 590 mm wheels on sport bicycles in Japan. The retro bike market has a big following there.
#116
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I don't know if you'd be interested, but since you show mighty fine Dremel skillz, you might cut those guides completely off, touch up the black paint in that area and install a pair of those Blackburn Rack Eyes. They fit in the diamond-shaped opening on the dropout on bikes without pre-existing eyelets. I have a pair I'll never use I'd be happy to donate to this project
DD
DD
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I don't know if you'd be interested, but since you show mighty fine Dremel skillz, you might cut those guides completely off, touch up the black paint in that area and install a pair of those Blackburn Rack Eyes. They fit in the diamond-shaped opening on the dropout on bikes without pre-existing eyelets. I have a pair I'll never use I'd be happy to donate to this project
DD
DD
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DD
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Will do, thanks!
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This got me wondering, so I just had to weigh my 650B Bianchi to compare to yours. As you did, I weighed mine as ridden but without water bottles. It turns out that my Bianchi is very close at 25.0 pounds. Kind of amazing how similar the weights are!
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Much-belated update!
So, the ol' rando-commuter is living up to its name more and more...
The new fork made by @gugie is doing a nice job of keeping the steering light and the front wheel out of the way of my feet. Even with a cable lock, small toolkit, and a couple of tallboys in the handlebar bag, the bike rides wonderfully, so I've been putting a lot of extra miles on it. The fork adds about 40 grams over the original, but it has earned the right.
I'm targeting a slightly lower pressure in the 650B Pacenti Pari-Motos. I was using 40psi in front and 50psi in the rear but the wear pattern on the rear tire is a little narrower than I'd prefer, indicating that I've been using more air than needed for the load. So now I pump up to 40/50 and don't check it again (except by thumb and forefinger) for the next two weeks, or pump them up to about 35/45 before a ride. The ride is plusher and no less fast. Maybe even faster!
The Shutter Precision dyno and B&M Eyc headlight continue to make my life easy and low-stress on night rides. The Axiom taillight has great battery life, otherwise I'd wish I'd used a 3W dyno hub and a dyno taillight.
The 13-14-15-17-19-21-24 cassette configuration saved me quite a few grams over the original 13-28, but I wasn't entirely happy with it. My 35" low gear design goal wasn't being met, and I always had to cross-chain a little to ride in my 65" base gear. I grabbed an unused 23T and 26T cog from my collection, and built up a 13-15-17-19-21-23-26. Fantastic, this gearing was perfect for RAGBRAI a few weeks ago. But it added back many precious grams. So I spent some quality time in the garage with my Dremel and whittled it down to 248g including the lockring. By comparison, a stock 13-26 "H" cassette weighs about 300g out of the package. Much better. (I threw an unmolested 23T cog into the last picture to illustrate how much "sculpting" I did.)
So there you have it. I'm really happy with this project now, and while it's not perfect yet, that just gives me more to tinker with. At some point, I'll fix the images earlier in this thread. Stupid greedy Photobucket.
The new fork made by @gugie is doing a nice job of keeping the steering light and the front wheel out of the way of my feet. Even with a cable lock, small toolkit, and a couple of tallboys in the handlebar bag, the bike rides wonderfully, so I've been putting a lot of extra miles on it. The fork adds about 40 grams over the original, but it has earned the right.
I'm targeting a slightly lower pressure in the 650B Pacenti Pari-Motos. I was using 40psi in front and 50psi in the rear but the wear pattern on the rear tire is a little narrower than I'd prefer, indicating that I've been using more air than needed for the load. So now I pump up to 40/50 and don't check it again (except by thumb and forefinger) for the next two weeks, or pump them up to about 35/45 before a ride. The ride is plusher and no less fast. Maybe even faster!
The Shutter Precision dyno and B&M Eyc headlight continue to make my life easy and low-stress on night rides. The Axiom taillight has great battery life, otherwise I'd wish I'd used a 3W dyno hub and a dyno taillight.
The 13-14-15-17-19-21-24 cassette configuration saved me quite a few grams over the original 13-28, but I wasn't entirely happy with it. My 35" low gear design goal wasn't being met, and I always had to cross-chain a little to ride in my 65" base gear. I grabbed an unused 23T and 26T cog from my collection, and built up a 13-15-17-19-21-23-26. Fantastic, this gearing was perfect for RAGBRAI a few weeks ago. But it added back many precious grams. So I spent some quality time in the garage with my Dremel and whittled it down to 248g including the lockring. By comparison, a stock 13-26 "H" cassette weighs about 300g out of the package. Much better. (I threw an unmolested 23T cog into the last picture to illustrate how much "sculpting" I did.)
So there you have it. I'm really happy with this project now, and while it's not perfect yet, that just gives me more to tinker with. At some point, I'll fix the images earlier in this thread. Stupid greedy Photobucket.
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RUSA #7498
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
Last edited by ThermionicScott; 08-16-17 at 01:37 PM. Reason: imguring
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#123
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6mm in the bead seat diameter (590 vs 584) and a world of difference in the available tires. In this country, 650A aka 26 x 1 3/8" is mostly found on English 3 speeds and the tires, supposedly available in every Walmart, are generally utility tires.
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@ThermionicScott, great thread but it's a drag how photobucket (a company that deserves to go under financially) has ruined the thread. If you attached a few pics to the end of the thread, that would be useful.
This is my winter bike build, https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/...ter-build.html
The bike has been a trooper and has seen me through 3 IA winters so far. I'll add update the thread later this fall as the bike is undergoing a bit of rehab; winter commutes are tough on a bike.
This is my winter bike build, https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/...ter-build.html
The bike has been a trooper and has seen me through 3 IA winters so far. I'll add update the thread later this fall as the bike is undergoing a bit of rehab; winter commutes are tough on a bike.
#125
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@ThermionicScott, great thread but it's a drag how photobucket (a company that deserves to go under financially) has ruined the thread. If you attached a few pics to the end of the thread, that would be useful.
This is my winter bike build, https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/...ter-build.html
The bike has been a trooper and has seen me through 3 IA winters so far. I'll add update the thread later this fall as the bike is undergoing a bit of rehab; winter commutes are tough on a bike.
This is my winter bike build, https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/...ter-build.html
The bike has been a trooper and has seen me through 3 IA winters so far. I'll add update the thread later this fall as the bike is undergoing a bit of rehab; winter commutes are tough on a bike.
Though if imgur decides to follow Photobucket's lead, I think I'll just burn down the Internet.
It would be cool to hear more about the Heinz 57 bike!
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RUSA #7498
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
Last edited by ThermionicScott; 08-16-17 at 02:18 PM.