kylarr

Hi all,

I first saw this bike in September on German eBay. Unfortunately it had already sold for an absurdly low price. Luckily it went to a flipper, I saw it come up again about six weeks ago and went for it. It was one of the worst eBay experiences of my life. After wiring off the money I was forced to just sit there and hope for the best with no real communication from the seller. He also shipped it by DHL Global Mail which, as I was to read in the five weeks it took for the package to get here from the time he uploaded tracking, is one of the worst shipping services in the world. When it finally showed up it was just wrapped in cardboard and taped up, I could actually see the derailleur and one of the fork ends sticking out. The dropout screws are of course broken, from what I understand I am probably going to need to have some replicas machined and chromed. Luckily the frame and derailleur came through fine. It still makes me sad that so little care was taken but I'll get over it.

Anyway, on to the bike. Sorry, the light is not the best for picture taking and is not going to get better for months. This is as found. You like the bell?


IMG_0332 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0319 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0336 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0311 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0323 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0305 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0308 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0329 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0327 by lelandgibson, on Flickr


IMG_0331 by lelandgibson, on Flickr

The photoset is here if you want to see any more https://www.flickr.com/photos/9921258...7639252167614/

I will also take more pictures if anyone wants to see anything specific.

Now I know that the Cinelli Timeline says the Super Corsa did not come into production till 1953 but the dropouts and derailleur lead me to think this bike is earlier. The derailleur is a 51-1 (by Hi Campy's website) with a 51-3 cable fixing mechanism and much later pulleys. The dropouts are the bulge type with 4 mm adjusting screws and the stop farther around the pivot counter clockwise. This is because of the stop adjusting screw that disappeared with the 51-2 derailleur. it also has the early front dropouts with the longer neck on the eyelets. Unfortunately nut with lockwashers were used to fix the wheels on and the dropout stamping is pretty chewed up.

The Parts are a real mishmash and at this point, besides the derailleur and shifter, I have no idea what is still original. Most of the stuff like the saddle, cranks and brakes that I can trace to the early fifties will stay. The stem, bars and seatpost will eventually all get changed out. The wheels will have to go as well. I just don't like the nutted axles. It is also missing some pretty hard to find bits, I will probably have to have replacements made for the derailleur bits that are wrong and the badge and screws I will probably be trying to find for many years if I ever do. There is also a fairly nasty ding in the left fork blade that I have to make a decision on.

This must be the one for me. I have shut down the nine saved eBay searches and all the Search Tempest tabs. Good thing too, I am pretty much out of bike money for the next year or so. This one will have to sit till then.

If anyone has any opinions on what might be original to this bike and what is not, I would love to hear them. I would also like to know more about Altenburger brakes and whether they had levers and the best early fifties 26.2 mm seatpost.

KonAaron Snake 

WHOAAAA! Now this is a frigging score...so glad it survived the awful shipping. That is remarkable, and it still has the Reynolds decal. This is the kind of bike we all aspire to.

Michael Angelo 

Fantastic! !!

lotekmod

Wow, I would love to work on that bike (and ride it too). Keep the photos coming as you bring it back to life.

ilikebikes

Better pics...STAT!

Javelin

Sweet....nice bike!

spacemanz

Very nice, congrats! I wasn't aware Cinelli were made with Reynolds, or was that just certain models? I'm gonna need to start a thread, about what Italian bikes were made with Reynolds. I have no idea, but it seems probably not too many.

auchencrow

That is a REALLY cool looking Eye-talian bike cycle!

Well worth the wait!

Regarding the brakes, it looks like you have the Altenberger1 single pivots. FWIW, some early 70's Raleighs came with dual pivot Altenberger Synchrons and matching levers were provided at the time. (They were actually pretty good low-cost brakes). I'd venture to say that your brakes are earlier, but still don't seem like they would be original to the bike.

Scooper

A grail for sure. Congrats! Now the fun begins figuring out what you need to do with it and then getting on with the job.

flash2070

It is a gorgeous bike! Those Cinellis are just beautiful, and one of my New Year's challenges is to find one at a garage sale or thrift store! :-) Congratulations! Now regarding the shipping, it is insane the way that this bike was boxed and shipped. That was an extremely poor and pathetic job! But it's not only that bike shop in Germany. When I bought my Pogliaghi from NY, my friend took it to his local bike shop, which by all accounts appeared to be a professional bike shop that knew how to box a bike. Well, when I received it, I almost passed out and had a heart attack. It was the poorest job I have ever seen. Not a single roll of foam piping, or bubble wrap! It was definitely a miracle that it did not arrived damaged. Congratulations again, and I'm also looking forward to the pictures. All the best, and enjoy your lovely bike!

Flash

repechage

I am very glad that this bike is too big and was not on my radar. It is really interesting to see such an early example, early graphics, chrome seat stay bands... internal cable routing in the top tube... it is very enjoyable to look at the images, lots of interesting details. (pretty sure you can ditch the vinyl world championship stripes). Even if the bike budget has been blown for quite a while there is plenty to do here.
If you must have quick releases, I would look to exchange the axles, reasonably early FB or Campagnolo hubs show up from time to time on ebay for relatively reasonable sums, especially if you do not require hubs with nice chrome barrels... swap with what you need....
As to the date... I have an older Italian road bike with the same rear dropouts, due to all of the parts on it that I suspect are original, I have always placed it at 1952-53. For what that is worth.
The geometry of this bike is not too far away from what Cinelli used for seemingly decades, the fork rake is the item that draws my attention, maybe 60-65 mm of rake? Hard to tell and the dropout orientation increases it a bit.

kylarr

I didn't realize just how bad the pictures were till the thread was up. I will get better ones up in the next few days.

According to the Cinelli timeline the Super Corsa's were made with Reynolds till 1963 or so. I have read that some Masi's were also made with Reynolds, I don't know the timeframe which Masi or much else. I would like to study Masi's more some day but its a pretty complex history and I haven't had the time yet.

Thanks for the link. I do think mine are older than the ones shown. They have the springs bent to catch the inside of the arms like old Universal 51's, thats what led me to think that they might be contemporary to the build date. I am starting to think that the bike was shipped as just a frame to Germany and built with what was available, the parts are just all over the place. They will probably eventually go in favor of Universal 51's.

kylarr

https://www.bikequarterly.com/images/...erlyCampGS.pdf

If you go to this article by Jan Heine on the development of the Gran sport and scroll down to the Rebour drawings comparing the '51 and '52 derailleurs and look at the dropouts on each you will see that the bulge went away in '52. Of course builders buy stuff that is not always used right away so they might show up on later bikes. I would love to see pictures of your bike.

Thats a good idea on the axle swap. I have not dealt with hubs that much. Were axles interchangeable across brands?

As to the geometry, the fork rake is identical to my '57 Cinelli and while I have not measured yet the geometry looks pretty similar. That bike rides very close to the way my '71 rides. Its one of the reasons I like 1950's bike stuff so much. They were figuring out the foundation for the next thirty years of racing bicycles.

repechage

FB and Campagnolo are interchangeable, and Campagnolo kept the odd thread pitch for decades.
Interesting on the dropout dates, I don't read Bicycle Quarterly.
I do agree that the Italians in the 1950's definitely had "road bike geometry" down. They age well, one reason being that a guy looking at one today is also probably interested in a smaller bike than what he would have been fitted to if he was buying it back when new. I bought a 53 cm frame with a 55 cm top tube, with the seat collar the frame has it fits more like a "55-56 cm" frame from the 70's.
The fork leg sweep of your bike looks pretty close to what Cinelli did even much later. To my eye the early dropout and its placement in relation to the end of the blade gives the fork a bit extra rake, by the geometry of the dropout and the relation to the end of the tube.

Masi used Reynolds off and on for a long time, only occasionally applying a tubing transfer. I have a number of them, often the only indication is the fork. So, it tells one what the fork is made of. When Masi set up the American facility in Carlsbad the production bikes were Reynolds, Columbus was by special order. Allegedly Reynolds was more forgiving to braze as it was slightly different in alloy.

inkandsilver

!951 is right! That is just a fantastic acquisition!

kylarr

Hah, just noticed that. If a moderator happens by will you please change the ! to a 1. Thank you.

inkandsilver

I would be typing random exclamations too.

spacemanz

Hey, wait a minute. How about a pic of the BB shell, from underneath? I don't recall Cinelli having cutouts, or anything too weird, it just seems a BB shell pic is part of the process. There are several differences between your Cinelli & my '71 Frejus (Reynolds 531 db), but I also see a strong influence, in style, plus that basic geometry you guys mentioned. BTW, I have small dents on my top tube and seat tube, so don't feel too bad about your fork. As long as it still rides like a cloud.

KonAaron Snake 

I believe Reynolds was available as an option for some time after that...keeping in mind that most of these were custom orders.

martl

That Cinelli is a hell of a find! Gratulations!

The pic on Velobase is mine (of a friend's 100% original Dürkopp), those Altenburger brakes are definitely period correct, they just are ultra-rare. The levers don't seem to be correct though, and if they are, replacement rubber hoods will be impossible to find.

Narhay

Internal cable routing before it was cool.

rootboy 

Very cool. Is that bell actuated off the movement of the front brake? Interesting.

repechage

I thought that ! was intentional, I would be exc!ted if I owned it.

kylarr

I will get pics of the BB shell when I update the rest of the photos. There were some Cinelli's in the seventies that had cutouts. This one is pretty plain. It does not even have the GF+ marking, the cutout in the DT socket or the serial number put there just to confuse collectors for the next 60 years.

Thanks for the info. Do you have any idea of the age of the Durkopp? I am now curious about when they changed from the bent spring to the cast post on the back of the arms.

The levers are Weinmann's and from what I could gather are possibly from the same era as well.

No, the striker is just in a bad spot. When attaching a pink bell to a chrome fork, who needs it to ding anyway? The glare should catch enough attention.

thinktubes 

Stunning!!!!!!! Is it a 57cm? Front hub looks newer.