New Surly Long Haul Trucker frame vs 95 Trek 830 frame - Cro-Moly Battle to the Death
10-19-15, 08:05 AM
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Not titanium; you're misreading the label. That's a Raleigh Technium frame built with 7005 series aluminum. Nice U.S.-built frame.
10-19-15, 09:29 AM
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Still a very nice one, still wrong for me with no really obvious air replacements for its early fork, still a size too big. :-/
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10-19-15, 09:46 AM
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I have a Raleigh Technium that I got from a friend for $50 (who himself had picked it up from a church sale for $5!!). It's a nice vintage bike. My wife, then my son rode it for a while, now it's sitting waiting for the next son to get a little bigger.
The interesting thing is the lugs were bonded (epoxied), not welded. Here's a nice online article about it, note especially the crash pic at the bottom, bonded lugs were about the only component of the bike that survived!
The interesting thing is the lugs were bonded (epoxied), not welded. Here's a nice online article about it, note especially the crash pic at the bottom, bonded lugs were about the only component of the bike that survived!
10-19-15, 08:50 PM
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10-19-15, 09:04 PM
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After reading some of the responses to this thread and its copy in the Hybrid section, I had pretty much made up my mind to get the Surly LHT and I suspect I would have liked it a fair bit, but now I have my heart set on a blood red Thorn Sherpa with the lightweight fork option.
Thorn Sherpa MK3 Frame - £435.00
Thorn RAV853VC Steel Fork - £225.00
This will delay me a bit more whilst I save up the funds, but I suspect I will be much happier in the long run.
I will probably still redo my Trek 830 in the medium term, not just for comparison purposes, but for those occasions where I may need to leave my bike locked up and I don't want to leave the Thorn Sherpa there.
Thorn Sherpa MK3 Frame - £435.00
Thorn RAV853VC Steel Fork - £225.00
This will delay me a bit more whilst I save up the funds, but I suspect I will be much happier in the long run.
I will probably still redo my Trek 830 in the medium term, not just for comparison purposes, but for those occasions where I may need to leave my bike locked up and I don't want to leave the Thorn Sherpa there.
10-19-15, 09:21 PM
#32
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I have test ridden the LHT several times, and did a lot of online research. It's been said that for heavy loaded touring they ride like a Cadillac. However, unloaded aren't fun to ride. I tried to like them a lot. I had both a 1990 Trek 930 as well as a Trek 830 and an '88 Rockhopper and all of those bikes were more fun & "lively" than the LHT.
I currently have. 650b Surly Straggler that I adore.
I currently have. 650b Surly Straggler that I adore.
10-19-15, 09:30 PM
#33
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I have test ridden the LHT several times, and did a lot of online research. It's been said that for heavy loaded touring they ride like a Cadillac. However, unloaded aren't fun to ride. I tried to like them a lot. I had both a 1990 Trek 930 as well as a Trek 830 and an '88 Rockhopper and all of those bikes were more fun & "lively" than the LHT.
I currently have. 650b Surly Straggler that I adore.
I currently have. 650b Surly Straggler that I adore.
10-19-15, 10:59 PM
#34
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Just as I am about to kick off the major overhaul of my 1995 Trek 830 Mountain Bike, to make it more Commuter friendly and refreshed, I get the brilliant idea of perhaps buying a Surly Long Haul Trucker frame instead and putting all my new parts on to it and putting my Trek 830 into retirement for now.
So I am starting this thread to get people's opinions on how big a difference in ride quality they think there would be between my Trek 830(which like the Surly LHT has a Cro-Moly frame) and a new Surly LHT?
I know the Surly has much more versatility for added racks and various things to it, but that is not a factor in why I am considering the Surly LHT frame & forkset.
In the contest between the old Trek 830 and the Surly LHT, I'm only interested in how noticeable or not, the difference in feel of comfort and anything else, be it speed or stability or whatever, that is likely to exist between my Trek 830 & the Surly LHT.
Now unless someone is going to shock me and tell me otherwise, yes I expect the Surly LHT to be better across the board, but is the difference big enough to justify in your opinion the cost of buying the Surly LHT, versus reusing my existing frame at no cost to me?
I'm pretty much only an urban rider, cars are just about always constantly around me, and I tend to switch regularly from road to footpath depending on where I am riding.
I won't be using either bike as a mountain bike, but as a more rugged 7.x FX for want of a better term.
Definitely appreciate any insights and feedback that people have.
Cheers.
P.S. Either way, the bike will be setup to use a flat bar handlebar.
So I am starting this thread to get people's opinions on how big a difference in ride quality they think there would be between my Trek 830(which like the Surly LHT has a Cro-Moly frame) and a new Surly LHT?
I know the Surly has much more versatility for added racks and various things to it, but that is not a factor in why I am considering the Surly LHT frame & forkset.
In the contest between the old Trek 830 and the Surly LHT, I'm only interested in how noticeable or not, the difference in feel of comfort and anything else, be it speed or stability or whatever, that is likely to exist between my Trek 830 & the Surly LHT.
Now unless someone is going to shock me and tell me otherwise, yes I expect the Surly LHT to be better across the board, but is the difference big enough to justify in your opinion the cost of buying the Surly LHT, versus reusing my existing frame at no cost to me?
I'm pretty much only an urban rider, cars are just about always constantly around me, and I tend to switch regularly from road to footpath depending on where I am riding.
I won't be using either bike as a mountain bike, but as a more rugged 7.x FX for want of a better term.
Definitely appreciate any insights and feedback that people have.
Cheers.
P.S. Either way, the bike will be setup to use a flat bar handlebar.
For the intended use, have you considered 28" wheels bicycles?
10-19-15, 11:21 PM
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I have test ridden the LHT several times, and did a lot of online research. It's been said that for heavy loaded touring they ride like a Cadillac. However, unloaded aren't fun to ride. I tried to like them a lot. I had both a 1990 Trek 930 as well as a Trek 830 and an '88 Rockhopper and all of those bikes were more fun & "lively" than the LHT.
I currently have. 650b Surly Straggler that I adore.
I currently have. 650b Surly Straggler that I adore.
10-19-15, 11:30 PM
#36
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I simply found the LHT to be a snooze fest. Very stiff and just a boring feel.
Of course, most of my bikes are mid'80's Japanese vintage lugged frame road bikes. Talk about lively.
Of course, most of my bikes are mid'80's Japanese vintage lugged frame road bikes. Talk about lively.
10-19-15, 11:30 PM
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For the intended use, have you considered 28" wheels bicycles?
10-19-15, 11:38 PM
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10-20-15, 12:20 AM
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Probably not a lot wrong with the current bike, but considering it is a 1995 Mountain Bike, I was hopeful that the bikes/bike frames I have been looking at, might be noticeably better.
Larger wheels like that will undoubtedly be in my future at some point, but because I had already purchased the wheels, tyres & tubes for a 26" setup, I decided to stick with that, as buying new 700c/29" wheels in addition to a new frame and fork, seemed too big a financial strain on me for now.
Larger wheels like that will undoubtedly be in my future at some point, but because I had already purchased the wheels, tyres & tubes for a 26" setup, I decided to stick with that, as buying new 700c/29" wheels in addition to a new frame and fork, seemed too big a financial strain on me for now.
622 wheels will roll better on most things. With 37 to 42 mm tyres would be very nice for commuting even on rough pavement, but it will be nicer than MTB wheels. You could sell the wheels separately and get a whole new complete bike for not too much money. Just a thought.
What do you plan to get better with a new frame? The frame you have looks OK (that model), I believe it is as good as it gets. IMO, as long as a frame fits your body build, has all the eyelets needed for rack and mudguards, steel frame is a steel frame. I have failed to notice some big differences. Talking about moderate commuting loaded bicycle, not heavy loaded touring.
10-20-15, 12:50 AM
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Digression:
622 wheels will roll better on most things. With 37 to 42 mm tyres would be very nice for commuting even on rough pavement, but it will be nicer than MTB wheels. You could sell the wheels separately and get a whole new complete bike for not too much money. Just a thought.
What do you plan to get better with a new frame? The frame you have looks OK (that model), I believe it is as good as it gets. IMO, as long as a frame fits your body build, has all the eyelets needed for rack and mudguards, steel frame is a steel frame. I have failed to notice some big differences. Talking about moderate commuting loaded bicycle, not heavy loaded touring.
622 wheels will roll better on most things. With 37 to 42 mm tyres would be very nice for commuting even on rough pavement, but it will be nicer than MTB wheels. You could sell the wheels separately and get a whole new complete bike for not too much money. Just a thought.
What do you plan to get better with a new frame? The frame you have looks OK (that model), I believe it is as good as it gets. IMO, as long as a frame fits your body build, has all the eyelets needed for rack and mudguards, steel frame is a steel frame. I have failed to notice some big differences. Talking about moderate commuting loaded bicycle, not heavy loaded touring.
If the Thorn Sherpa with its 969 Cro-moly frame and Reynolds 853 Fork doesn't produce a noticeably better ride than my Trek 830, I will be bitterly disappointed, but consider it a valuable lesson learned.
Right now there isn't a larger wheeled bike that particularly appeals to me, so I will need to do either much more research or have a new model get released by someone.
With that being the case, I am more than happy to go with the 26" setup as I want 50mm wide tyres.
10-20-15, 02:29 AM
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Well part of this will be a learning experience for me.
If the Thorn Sherpa with its 969 Cro-moly frame and Reynolds 853 Fork doesn't produce a noticeably better ride than my Trek 830, I will be bitterly disappointed, but consider it a valuable lesson learned.
Right now there isn't a larger wheeled bike that particularly appeals to me, so I will need to do either much more research or have a new model get released by someone.
With that being the case, I am more than happy to go with the 26" setup as I want 50mm wide tyres.
If the Thorn Sherpa with its 969 Cro-moly frame and Reynolds 853 Fork doesn't produce a noticeably better ride than my Trek 830, I will be bitterly disappointed, but consider it a valuable lesson learned.
Right now there isn't a larger wheeled bike that particularly appeals to me, so I will need to do either much more research or have a new model get released by someone.
With that being the case, I am more than happy to go with the 26" setup as I want 50mm wide tyres.
Comfort, ride quality - all the bikes I've ridden were just fine. The bike you have now should be a fine frame. Wouldn't expect any difference one can sense. Except the fact that a clean bike rides better than a dirty one, and a new one better than the old one - always.
10-20-15, 02:57 AM
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After 30 years of cycling, for me, steel frame is a steel frame. Hell, METAL frame is a metal frame, fail to sense some significant difference even between an aluminium vs steel frame. Comfort, ride quality - all the bikes I've ridden were just fine. The bike you have now should be a fine frame. Wouldn't expect any difference one can sense. Except the fact that a clean bike rides better than a dirty one, and a new one better than the old one - always.
Comfort, ride quality - all the bikes I've ridden were just fine. The bike you have now should be a fine frame. Wouldn't expect any difference one can sense. Except the fact that a clean bike rides better than a dirty one, and a new one better than the old one - always.
10-20-15, 07:38 AM
#43
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Could we just consider that you may be gripped by the "N+ 1" syndrome? Nothing to be ashamed of....I suffer from it too!
10-20-15, 08:26 AM
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I ride a Surly CrossCheck with 700x50 (aka 29x2) Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires. There are plenty of monstercross options out there to give you big clearance with 622s
10-20-15, 08:34 AM
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Looking forward to your report! I have admired the Thorn bikes plenty, and that one in particular. I'm not tall enough that a 700c really is needed, and initially was dismayed to find that most of what worked for me was 26" bikes. Then, I bought a used 26" GF, played around with the setup some, and now am not sure I can be totally comfortable WITHOUT going to another 26" tire bike....but it seems a little silly for me to purchase another one, when there is really nothing wrong with the one I have...aside from its stupendous weight at 35# and the preference to have it freshly powder coated given its wear and tear. Does anyone in their right mind spend the money to do a complete tear down, powder coat, and re-build of a frame that was entry level when it debuted?
10-20-15, 08:50 AM
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10-20-15, 08:59 AM
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Thanks for that feedback.
It would disappoint me to know that the Surly LHT wouldn't feel substantially better and/or more comfortable than my 1995 Trek 830, considering the years that have passed and that the Surly is meant for the roads, even if primarily as a loaded tourer.
As for components, I have already bought all my components and they are pretty much XT everything.
It would disappoint me to know that the Surly LHT wouldn't feel substantially better and/or more comfortable than my 1995 Trek 830, considering the years that have passed and that the Surly is meant for the roads, even if primarily as a loaded tourer.
As for components, I have already bought all my components and they are pretty much XT everything.
The 830 is a great bike. The geometry might not be ideal if you are going to set it up like a road bike with drop bars. Likewise, the LHT is primarily intended for drop bars and may be less than ideal for a flat-bar build. I know there are many people riding these and similar bikes with all sorts of setups, but I thought the original intent of the bikes was worth mentioning. Surly has frames similar to the LHT but designed for flat bars, like the troll and ogre.
10-20-15, 09:00 AM
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You should see what BF member Johnny Mullet can do with a Huffy and a blowtorch...
Ha, I've followed some of his re-builds which are quite amazing. Afraid I need a lot more native talent to make that practical, lol. The only upside I can see for my ridiculous rebuild would be that it might force me to learn how to tear everything down and re-build. I'd probably hang out at my local bike coop a few nights, which would undoubtedly be good education....that's the only remotely sane justification I've been able to come up with
10-20-15, 09:17 AM
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It may not make financial sense if the goal is to make a profit, but if the goal is to learn how to tear down and rebuild a bike, and make a decent bike a little better in the process, totally worth it.
10-20-15, 03:11 PM
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Surly frames are pretty basic CroMo steel (entry level?). The things that set them apart are their nice powder coat and (usually) well thought out braze-ons. If you have an old bike that you like the fit and geometry of, why not strip it down and have it powder coated? Stripping down an old bike, greasing everything and putting it back together is usually a worthwhile project, even if you don't plan to paint it. It can do wonders for the functionality of the bike, and like you said you learn a lot about it (it's not that hard, really).
I did this with an old RockHopper I bought for my daughter just because she wanted a prettier color. There's a local powder coater here that did the job for $100. While it was stripped down I had them chop off a couple of braze-ons and add a couple more to change the cable routing that was originally designed for cantilever brakes to make it look nicer with V-brakes. This was a strictly cosmetic change, but the shop only charged me another $20 to do it. I could have added other things like that if I had needed them.
I'm also of the opinion that some old frames are worth upgrading to decent modern components. A couple of projects that I think were well worthwhile were putting an M590 Deore groupset on an '89 Rockhopper and putting a 57000-series 105 groupset on a 2001 LeMond Buenos Aires (though that isn't quite an entry level frame).
I didn't get either of these powder coated, but I probably would have done so with the RockHopper if I had kept it.
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