radroad

It's ridiculous, no doubt.The appeal of ultegra and 4700 tiagra are the relatively short lever throws, especially with ultegra. Snick, snick, so fast! And darn quiet too.

If you're going to have extremely long lever throw, make it loud and clunky and super fun, like campy cable throws.

Kimmo

So my gear turned up today. First impressions: the FD cage looks very cheap. FD itself looks a lot like pre-11s Shimano. RD looks very SRAM, chunky alloy cage with what appear to be BB pulleys. The levers seem like Shimano on the outside, SRAM on the inside. The hoods are much better quality than I feared. Lever throw is huge.

Still at work, will post more soon.

kcblair

Glad to hear you got your goodies. You say the FD cage is cheap, but is the cage metal as thick as any of Shimano's FD's (Claris, Sora , Tiagra) ? KB

Kimmo

Yeah, it's just cosmetic; the FD cage seems beefy enough. The only thing that looks functionally sketchy is there's a part that goes between the B-screw and the hanger tang just like on a SRAM RD, except on this it's plastic.

kcblair

Hey, thanks for the info. Another though, for everyone here, I wonder if a Shimano 5800 RD could be used in place , first, it's 11 speed, second if one uses the GS version, could use a 11-32 cassette, and third, it would only add about $35 to the cost of the upgrade.

Or, I wonder if the cable pull on this system is totally different than Shimano 11 speed. KB

Kimmo

I think both Shimano and Campy have a non-linear ratio between cable pull and derailer travel, but SRAM has a linear ratio thanks to the grooved cam the cable runs over, and even 1:1 cable pull to derailer travel.

Sensah's RD is a total rip-off of SRAM's design. No idea yet if it's 1:1 as well, but it uses the grooved cam to apparently make it linear, so there's no way it'll play with Shimano. I have really limited spare time right now, so I haven't finished fitting the gear yet, but after I've tried it out, I'll pop my Red RD on there to see if it's SRAM compatible.

kcblair

Ok, thank you so much. If I take the dive, I might consider a Sram RD, to get a larger cassette, ie. lower gearing. Good luck. KB.

Kimmo

So the rear shifting seems pretty good. There's a long throw to shift to a bigger cog for the first click, which makes it a little bit hard to shift two or three cogs at a time, but it's okay. Having just the one lever is pretty cool. Braking while shifting works alright, thanks to the small ziptie I used to disable the lockout.

I couldn't assess the front shifting because when I did up the FD's mounting bolt tight enough, its nose dug into the slot in my hanger and changed the angle so the tail of the cage hit the big ring; with the bolt loose enough so this didn't happen, the FD moved around. I realised my bolt-on hanger actually allowed for a lot of angle adjustment so I gave that a tweak, but then when I remounted the FD, it broke my hanger, dammit. Be very careful with this bastard FD on your hanger. The bottom of the nose is skinnier than it should be, and it should probably extend a bit lower. Some sort of shim is called for, I think. Looking at the geometry in the comparison shot of the Sensah FD and a Shimano one, it's probably worth leaving your old FD in place.

If anyone can hook me up with a front hanger for an '08 Tarmac, please PM me.




So it overshifts a SRAM RD, to the tune of about 7%. From the biggest cog down to the second smallest, the difference was linear and it ended up with the inside of the jockey wheel's teeth pretty much level with the outside of the second smallest cog, about 2.5mm too much, so something like 38.5/36.

A #1 Shiftmate might make it work... as near as I can figure, it might work for a SRAM MTB RD as well; it's hard to say. Jtek don't provide the ratios for their Shiftmates, only the combinations, so I was working from that and a table of dimensions.

Kimmo

Actually, never mind Shiftmates - I think with a SRAM road (or 10s MTB) derailer you could just build up the groove about a mm with tape, and with an 11s MTB derailer you could file the groove a little deeper (it uses 12% more cable pull than the road / 10s MTB derailer, while the Sensah one uses 7% more).

Or a more robust solution than tape might be to put a bit of sleeve over the cable where it wraps around the cam... I'll give it a shot and report back.

radroad

This group sounds underwhelming. The fact that it's a blatant ripoff of SRAM's design is both pathetic yet utterly predictable.

Kimmo

Yep, works a treat. Shifting during a test ride was flawless. So you can use these shifters with a MTB cassette and 10s SRAM MTB derailer.

I used a bit of sleeve from Jagwire Elite Link, with a 0.5mm wall thickness. V-brake noodle sleeve would probably work. But you need to trim a slice off the end to allow it to curve past the barrel adjust at full pull.

Kimmo

Dude. We're talking what, US$150?

For that money, it's bloody awesome.

Also, shifting to smaller cogs with just a sideways tap of the brake lever is pretty fun. One lever to rule them all! It's neat.

kcblair

Thanks Kimmo. That's great info, another suggestion was to use a WolfLink, to lower the mounting of the RD. KB

Dean V

Nice cable housing. Worth almost as much as the groupset!

kcblair

Yep agree, for the cost, it's an inexpensive way to upgrade to 11 speed. I don't beat up my equipment, I'm going from 9 speed to 11 on the cheap. Keep up the great reviews. KB.

Kimmo

I bought a brake set and a gear set for another bike, and there was enough left over to do the gears on this bike. The brakes are cheapo Alligator iLink.

Maelochs

Why would I want to buy parts which didn't work with most of what's out there? And as for adding bits of tape, filing things to fit .... I can spend a little more and get stuff which already works, and works well, and will last. No bits of tape floating around inside my shifter, gumming up the works.. No frustration because I filed a tiny bit too little and then a tiny bit too much, so the "money-saver" is actually just a balky shifter.

"Good Stuff Cheap" is hard to beat. "Bad Stuff Cheap" is easy to avoid.

I don't know why (assuming all the stuff posted above is accurate) the company went with a proprietary cable pull. I guess they figured they could force people to buy the groupset because none of the pieces really worked as stand-alones? Seems short-sighted.

Maybe Sensah is hoping to get picked up as OEM supplier for some lower-end bikes---edge out Tourney and Claris by offering cheap bike manufacturers more gears at the same price, to increase the curb-appeal of lower-end bike models.

Don't know.

Buying stuff that is incompatible with everything else, is new on the market, which might not be there in a coupe years, and which really doesn't work quite as well .... Each to his taste. I will spend a bit more and get Shimano and never have to worry.

Thanks very much for the detailed breakdown, and I hope you guys keep posting, so i can see how this all plays out,l but i doubt i can use Sensah as a lower-cost alternative---it just doesn't seem to offer the quality and adaptability i would prefer.

Kimmo

Considering how much else they ripped off, I wouldn't be surprised if that'd be a bridge too far that would definitely find them in court... Can you name a brand that makes a rear derailer that's compatible with the shifters of another brand? And if so, do you think it's the norm? Come on.

I didn't propose any bits of tape inside a shifter. The tape proposal was amended to a nice robust bit of sleeve, on the derailer as pictured. And as far as hacks to make different brands play together go, it's pretty damn elegant, and works better than the 'hubbub' Shimergo method.

In any case, I doubt using a SRAM derailer is necessary to run a MTB cassette, since Sensah also do MTB stuff themselves. No word on whether it's compatible, though.

CliffordK

Wow, that new derailleur is clearly wedge shaped.

Never force something that doesn't want to fit.

I have a couple of old Tarmac frames, but nothing that quite matches yours. Is your seat tube round, or shaped?

I see a few similar shaped derailleur mounts online, but it is hard to tell if they are actually close enough.

radroad

For shifters and derailleurs only, it's not even a great deal. You can buy 105 7000 series for the same price, plus you get cassette, chain, crankset, bb at the same price. Not to mention they're a sketchy fly by night shop only accessible via Alibaba. Not to mention they've stolen the tooling, designs, and manufacturing plant from an abandoned sram factory. It probably IS a sram factory.

CliffordK

If you are getting a complete 105 groupset for $134 including shifters, derailleurs, cassette, chain, bottom bracket, and maybe brakes... Then you and I are not shopping at the same place.

This is about as low as you can go on all new parts.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-105...S/183487573000

$217 for a mini-groupset (shifters & derailleurs). So, about $80 more than the above parts, and coming through as grey market, and possibly no better warranty support.

radroad

That's a good price. At least you have the assurance of eBay and PayPal protection (up to six months iirc) even if it's gray market and not officially supported by Shimano.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable dealing with an established eBay seller with eBay and PayPal protection or with an established online retailer like chain reaction than dealing with Alibaba and a "company" that basically stole everything from SRAM after they abandoned a plant. Who knows what happened to that plant. Was it stolen? Were they scammed out of it? Clearly, this is a ripoff of SRAM, so no, I wouldn't buy it.

There is so much stolen and counterfeited and copied merch coming out of china it's almost starting to seem "normal." And that's the scary part of it all. Someone should investigate how this company got it's hands on SRAM design and tooling and is now selling parts identical to SRAM with minor changes. If this is the new normal something is very wrong.

CliffordK

The link I posted was Shimano parts coming out of China. And, of course, we don't know the relationship between the seller and Shimano.

As far as these Sensah shifters, it sounds like they use a mix of Shimano and SRAM technology to make their own unique shifters. It is likely much of the technology is over 20 years old, updated to use with 10 and 11 speed technology, and could well be immune to a patent dispute.

Nonetheless, they may choose to only minimally market their products in the USA.

From the links above,

It is quite possible that SRAM sold the obsolete tooling when they moved the factory, or perhaps they were contracting the work without owning the equipment.

A while ago I worked for Symantec who had acquired several software companies as part of their growth. The parent company would strip off the management, customer service, and technical support jobs, but they were very careful about keeping the original programmers. Never want to piss off the people who could design and build a better product.

Kimmo

The section it bolts into is flat, and the rivnuts are 15mm c-c.

Where are you seeing them online?

CliffordK

I've found this one.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Front-Derai...k/152368085673

It looks like a couple of very similar ones. I assume the "35" is a curved tubing diameter. However, if it is steel, it could likely be flattened very easily, if the holes are in the right spot.

It looks like it may be curved in the opposite direction as yours so it may mount the derailleur slightly further back.

Hmmm, maybe this one is a little better match.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Triad-...r/131872842167

Ok, here are these two.
https://www.amaincycling.com/giant-f...-27056/p331466
https://www.amaincycling.com/giant-f...-27043/p331459

Those Giant ones look like they could be close depending on the hole spacing.

Of course, you could talk to a Specialized dealer and ask if the part is available.

I'm a little rudamentary with my fabrication abilities, but I might be able to fabricate one up if I had a pattern (the broken part). It would at least be an interesting challenge. Probably not much time until after Thanksgiving.