Invasion of the E-bikes!
#151
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Waiting to see what happens when someone riding one of those had their battery die. 50 lb bikes with no power assist must really suck.
#153
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I think maybe 100 or so on the flats and upwards of 350 for short hills. I have a bridge with a 5%, 1.3km hill and the wheel adds 300-400 on that hill but I doubt it could sustain that power much longer than a couple of minutes. For me, it 'flattens' the hills so my power output tends to be steadier than if I'm riding without it. Normally, I would go maybe 50% harder on the hills.
#154
Senior Member
I can't tell if Lemond is being facetious or not, but Greg hits it on the head. 100w is the difference between riding hard on a flat and taking it easy at a regular, non-sprinting pace. 300-400 is about what you'll put out cranking up a hill, and even spinning up 5% will be 200w+. So where is the exercise they are getting? When I was on the trainer yesterday I was doing 70w on a warm up, basically just spinning my legs. If that's what you put out to engage the throttle you aren't getting much exercise beyond soft pedaling around the park. Yes, they get some exercise, but no more than a spin around the park.
Purely anecdotal, but there's a guy in my neighborhood riding a e-bike and happens to be overweight as well, I don't think I've ever actually seen him pedaling, even on the flat. I have no clue whether he has a physical limitation or not, but if he doesn't, he probably would do a lot better and get in better shape riding under his own strength. I think the thing with e-bikes is that they'll enable a lot of people who are otherwise healthy and capable to get even less of a workout with bikes.
#155
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For the bikes with the motor in the BB area, the motor may add some drag when the battery is off.
#156
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Yeah, I have my doubts about the quality of exercise. Even without any assist I think people don't push a lot of watts, I think untrained people naturally do under 100w, so if unassisted they were doing 180-270kj in an hour (assuming 50-75w, my wife can't even keep up with me when I'm doing 100w on the bike path), then it's even less with an e-bike.
Purely anecdotal, but there's a guy in my neighborhood riding a e-bike and happens to be overweight as well, I don't think I've ever actually seen him pedaling, even on the flat. I have no clue whether he has a physical limitation or not, but if he doesn't, he probably would do a lot better and get in better shape riding under his own strength. I think the thing with e-bikes is that they'll enable a lot of people who are otherwise healthy and capable to get even less of a workout with bikes.
Purely anecdotal, but there's a guy in my neighborhood riding a e-bike and happens to be overweight as well, I don't think I've ever actually seen him pedaling, even on the flat. I have no clue whether he has a physical limitation or not, but if he doesn't, he probably would do a lot better and get in better shape riding under his own strength. I think the thing with e-bikes is that they'll enable a lot of people who are otherwise healthy and capable to get even less of a workout with bikes.
#157
Chases Dogs for Sport
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#158
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I live in seattle, including e-bike bike shares I'd estimate ~10% of people are now on ebikes, from everything to low powered casual cruisers that help people get up hills to cargo e-bikes with kid seats to full on essentially electric mopeds. I'm a racer and in relatively good shape(top 5% for most notable strava segments in the area) and I get passed by all manner of e-bikes. You just get used to it, and I certainly don't hold it against them. The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned even if some of them lack the skill and etiquette that usually takes a long time to develop to operate in mixed traffic at the speed they do.
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#159
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#160
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- You lose the fitness factor. We're an obese nation because people in the suburbs drive a car to the corner market. People in urban areas who walk more often are in better shape (and now that air quality is better in cities than 50 years ago).
- I live in a walkup apartment, no elevator. The weight of an E-bike is out of the question.
- I live in an urban area and bike theft is a major problem. You can't haul a fat enough chain to defend against the attack methods employed these days. Thus, I ride a folder, usually I can wheel the bike inside businesses, but those I can't, I fold the bike and carry it in, or if I cannot do that, patronize a competing business. E-bikes generally are left chained outside, where they are prime targets of thieves, and prized; They're worth thousands, and the resale market for them is huge.
If my health gets worse and I need an E-bike, it will be a 20" folder, with a battery that comes out super fast and easy, to toss in my backpack while going up and down stairs; My limitation is the weight that my hands can carry.
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If I was excused from paying all taxes for buying one of these, I'd be on board for that. Probably wouldn't ride it though.
They need to come out with gigantic tax incentives for people buying ebikes, similar to electric cars and solar panels, and the bike industry will have a boom on their hands like no one has seen since ... the Tesla. My other idea is that the govt can subsidize them for people on Medicare, like with the electric power chairs and back braces, and pretty soon they'll be everywhere.
They need to come out with gigantic tax incentives for people buying ebikes, similar to electric cars and solar panels, and the bike industry will have a boom on their hands like no one has seen since ... the Tesla. My other idea is that the govt can subsidize them for people on Medicare, like with the electric power chairs and back braces, and pretty soon they'll be everywhere.
#163
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I live in Seattle also, and for many it is the only reasonable way to get to work if your job is downtown. I have a friend that works at Facebook downtown but lives in White Center, which I think is a 10 mile distance. It would take him over forty minutes to drive not including finding parking and the bus system even longer. He puts his bike on high and hits the door to his office in around 35 minutes.
#164
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Thanks for your perspective FlashBazbo. I live in Los Angeles and would gladly use my e bike for commute. Traffic is the worst. I would imagine the 20 or 30 somethings ride them as they do not own cars and are sensitive to their carbon footprint. There are LBS that are dedicated to only selling e bikes in CA. They are becoming very popular.
#165
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- You lose the fitness factor. We're an obese nation because people in the suburbs drive a car to the corner market. People in urban areas who walk more often are in better shape (and now that air quality is better in cities than 50 years ago).
- I live in a walkup apartment, no elevator. The weight of an E-bike is out of the question.
- I live in a walkup apartment, no elevator. The weight of an E-bike is out of the question.
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#166
Senior Member
The one below weighs 48# and puts out about 40 Nm of torque - pretty good for a hub motor - starts at $1299 - supposedly it's stable enough to sit on like a chair when it is folded. 20 to 60 miles on a charge. Batteries are in the seat tube. https://electricbikereview.com/qualisports/dolphin/
If you need more torque then a name brand mid-mount motor set-up (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano) starts at around $2500.
Last edited by jlaw; 10-14-19 at 12:49 PM.
#167
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Lots of choices out there for hub motor folding ebikes in the $1000 to $1500 range - Chinese electrical components, 7 speed, racks, lights, etc.
The one below weighs 48# and puts out about 40 Nm of torque - pretty good for a hub motor - starts at $1299 - supposedly it's stable enough to sit on like a chair when it is folded. 20 to 60 miles on a charge. https://electricbikereview.com/qualisports/dolphin/
If you need more torque then a name brand mid-mount motor set-up (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano) starts at around $2500.
The one below weighs 48# and puts out about 40 Nm of torque - pretty good for a hub motor - starts at $1299 - supposedly it's stable enough to sit on like a chair when it is folded. 20 to 60 miles on a charge. https://electricbikereview.com/qualisports/dolphin/
If you need more torque then a name brand mid-mount motor set-up (Bosch, Yamaha, Brose, Shimano) starts at around $2500.
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#169
Senior Member
e-bikes may be great for geezers, people with physical limitations, and girlie men but they should all be identifiable so we don't chase after them.
#170
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#171
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Funny experience this weekend. In our area, I'm not sure any of us had ever seen an e-bike. But this weekend, a bunch of us traveled to a very nice organized ride through the Sequatchie Valley of Tennessee. GREAT place to ride.
One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)
Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.
Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)
Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.
Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
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#172
Senior Member
Funny experience this weekend. In our area, I'm not sure any of us had ever seen an e-bike. But this weekend, a bunch of us traveled to a very nice organized ride through the Sequatchie Valley of Tennessee. GREAT place to ride.
One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)
Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.
Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
One of the surprises was the number of e-bikes participating. Again, none of us had ever seen one in the wild, so it was a bit of a curiosity. No big deal. Not offended in any way. Just different. Until . . . one of our crew was having a rough day. We came up on one of the steeper climbs and he was having a hard time hanging with the group. A couple of us accelerated around a couple other bikes on the climb but, before the guy having a rough day could get around them, they accelerated away from him. It seemed effortless . . . and it blew his mind. As if he weren't having a hard enough time, this just buried him. He's not accustomed to being dropped on climbs. (He didn't realize they were on e-bikes.)
Eventually, about 10 miles later, he passed the e-bikes on a flat portion and realized they were e-bikes. He's no luddite, but after being dropped by them (thinking they were regular bikes), let's just say he didn't express appreciation for the type.
Again -- I'm not offended by people using e-bikes. But I was pretty surprised so many of them showed up for an organized metric+ bike ride. None of those riding them were geezers. In fact, most appeared to be in their 20's or early 30's. It definitely challenged my presuppositions about who uses e-bikes and how they use them.
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#173
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I think the solution to make them identifiable, would be to force any ebike built to conform to really strict safety standards, so strict, that they would take any sort of fun out of riding one. Crash bars, speed governors, heavy wheels and tires, extremely lame handling.
And then license riders, charge them registration fees for their "ebikes", and require mandatory liability insurance. Maybe also force riders to wear full face helmets, since they aren't pedaling (very much) anyway.
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#174
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Ebikers should not be allowed to hold records in categories with regular bikes. I have nothing against them, but don't compare my 73 year old lungs and legs to some machine. Just saying.........
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#175
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e-recovery!
E-bikes can be a wonderful recovery tool. I'm 75, and had spinal surgery 18 months ago, so my Madone was (at least temporarily) out of reach for me. After a couple of months of walking to build up strength again, I bought Trek Dual Sport to help with the transition back to a bike. What a joy - I could ride again, and could adjust the electric assist to whatever level I needed - especially on the ride back home. This summer I got back on the road bike. But as my age increases, I find that my motor isn't quite as strong. I expect that ebikes will allow me to keep riding many more years. I'm thinking now of a new e-Domane. Gotta have a new toy!
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