noglider 

I beg your pardon? How do you measure that?

RobbieTunes

Tim, your Trek post reminds me: the Antelope and similar bikes.
Bulletproof or close.
I applaud that.

thinktubes 

Good point on Trek = bulletproof.

Growing up, Schwinns were known for being indestructable. Most of my paper route bikes were old balloon tire Schwinns dating from the 1930/40s.

Now I see the same thing with old Treks. Good bones on those bikes.

tkamd73 

Thanks guys, I see you noticed the also bulletproof Schwinn, next to the Trek.
Tim

Wildwood 

If mainland China had been building quality lightweight bikes - back in the day (we are C&V, ) somebody would be defending the pedigree and collecting them.
Anyone - please correct me with a pic of a vintage lightweight from the Asian mainland, pre 1985.

Germany_chris

The China thing will pass when I was a kid the Japanese were bogey men today it’s the Chinese and who knows where it’ll be tomorrow.

I’m kind of a knife geek and we have this debate too. China & Taiwan make some very nice knives Taiwan doesn’t need to overcome perceptions but China does. With that little hobby I still only buy American or German it’s not nationalism I’m American my wife is German so I support our countries when I can.

Judging from the looks of some of the steel bikes I see on Ali Express it seems like the Chinese can build some pretty sexy steel.

we can make anything political if we want but the Americans build some sexy steel, Nitto builds the sexiest components, Panracer makes excellent clinchers, and the English make pretty saddles and when you combine them all you end up with awesome.

Wildwood 

I hear these expressions = all the time. From Americans.

Please explain how a Trek is more bulletproof than a ______ (quality vintage lightweight).
Good Bones? didn't they use Reynolds, Ishiwata, etc tubing like most others?

Schwinn indestructable = more steel. More steel on a bike is not desirable in an adult's lightweight.

I thought people bought adult Schwinn's because they were cheaper and more available than imports. Or that's all they knew.

Perhaps this is a case of - people speak highly of their choice in purchases, so as not to sound like they made a 'less than great' decision. And besides, made in America, makes us (USAers) all feel a little bit patriotic.

RobbieTunes

Not me. I hate everybody. I’m just more disgusted with some than others.

I just see a ton of Trek Antelope-type bikes that have been beat to death and seem just fine, albeit ugly.

xiaoman1 

Yes, it is hard to find high-end bikes in china that are C.V. Bicycles were considered utilitarian and when China began to "modernize" the bicycle was considered by the government to be used by only the "lower" class. Now with pollution and restrictions on car ownership/licensing bikes may be on the way back.
If it has 2 wheels and is human-powered, I would consider riding it.
Everything is made from parts from different parts of the world.....Globalization has complicated the pedigree in many ways.
Best, Ben

1987...not a lightweight

but while searching I found this...next time I am there I might take a look.

tkamd73 

Well of course you do, it’s an American euphemism that’s been around like forever, and last time I looked, Seattle was still located in America.
It’s way more polite then saying something is, built like a brick **** house. It’s just an expression for quality or useful longevity of an item, be it perceived, or actual, who cares.
It’s been used by American, to describe items from other countries, and just about anything from Germany.
I’m sure people in other countries have their own descriptive euphemisms for items, but why would one use them in conversation here?
I don’t think any slight or offense was intended, why go look for one?
Tim

Murray Missile 

Nope. I buy what catches my eye that's my size and hopefully within my budget. I don't care where it came from although I do seem to have more Japanese built bikes than all the others combined, but that may be because the majority of my "accumulation" is from the 70's and 80's and Japanese bikes seemingly outnumbered all the others. Or not. I have a thing for Raleighs but of the five I own four were made in Japan as were the majority of the Schwinns I own.

RobbieTunes

Dave Scott rode an Eisentraut. But that's all I know about that.

clubman 

Jan Urlich was a blip and the German Olympic squads were all doped. Unlike American teams. (or Canadians)

cb400bill

Long time pro racer Jens Voigt was born in Germany. At the time it was East Germany.

Manny66 

I tend to think that I choose bikes out of nostalgic reasons,( the bikes my Hero's rode), or the Bikes that personified Tradition , quality and innovation. Country of origin or politics doesnt really matter to me. My favorite cyclist was Bernard Hinault,Francesco Moser and later Greg Lemond. So Ive had a Gitane, A Moser and A Lemond. I also owned a Schwinn Prologue,Made in Japan, I bought it strictly for Racing season.

I never should have sold my Gitane or Lemond though.

merziac

Jan was a sizeable blip as was Jens and while maybe not a nation they did make, Germany produced plenty of cyclists and teams that helped drive the sport to the levels it attained, good, bad, doped or otherwise.

sheddle

isn't the simplified story of Germany similar to Britain where they preferred hub gear bikes to derailleur gear bikes (which might have negatively affected them in the sport cycling scene)

Wildwood 

@tkamd73 - Liked your first 3 paragraphs or so. Fair statements. I guess expressions just get applied to popular brands. I intended no offense. Have owned Treks and Schwinns, but I have never heard those expressions (indestructable, good bones, bulletproof {at least that one is understandably American}).applied to other vintage brands. Although many bmx and kids bikes were marketed 'indestructable'. And many mid-weight single speed cruisers were roughly treated - that's why those metal 'tank' covers on ebay cost $$$. I'm talking lightweights, not mid-weight cruisers.

Maybe the Europeans have national phrases for their enshrined national brands? IDK, but love to hear them.

Probably the Italians have the most. ya know the tifosi.


@RobbieTunes - yeah a lot of vintage mountain and all terrain bikes were abused (tho even with low mileage) and thankfully overbuilt with heavier tubing and cheap parts that should be replaced anyway.. Usually those fat tires took the beating, cause old mtb wheels are mostly toast.
edit: i remember as a kid seeing others roll their bike down a hill just to watch it crash.

iab

Well, from a C&V perspective, the height of bicycle racing was 6-day races. Outside the US, the height of 6-day races was in Germany, until the nazis put the kibosh on them. And as you expect, many of the great 6-day racers were German. So the idea Germany was never a cycling nation is ludicrous. And like the US, post war interstate highways, autobahns and a good economy created a car culture. Screw bikes.

clubman 

Agreed. IMO the Sixes were the most successful professional international sporting circuits of the early 20th century, maybe second to boxing. Highly recommend Six Days of Madness by Ted Harper. He has a central North American perspective but details most all of the big international riders including the top tier teams from Germany. They were dominant for years.

Steel Charlie

Absolutely ! ! Even if you know them it will not go well


As for the other I don't have time or energy to waste on jingoistic bull****e of any kind fostered by anyone. At every level of society in every imaginable activity people do incredibly stupid things for reasons even more so. The only salvation that I see is to live your life as it pleases you and hope for the best.
AFAIC that includes an Italian bicycle but that might just be me

aeshultz

Interesting topic - hadn't thought of this before. I came of "cycling age" during the mid-'70s and early '80s, and understood at least competitive cycling to be a Euro-based sport. Even with that original bias, the current fleet includes Litespeed, LeMond x2, Serotta, '83 Trek. '84 Schwinn and Norco (Canadian), so a very North American slant. Previous rides included Paramount, Centurion x3, Marinoni, Franklin (built in Columbus, OH), but my all-time favorite was a '73 Italian Masi.
Looking back, I think I'm impressed that American builders can produce excellent bikes in what I had thought to be a European sport.
But I love them all.

RobbieTunes

Does that mean there are 4?

RobbieTunes

With a nationometer?

After WWII, they had their own tour, as they were disinvited for a while.

RobbieTunes

With us, it was wagons, with a little brother forced to ride, scared stiff.